Re: Reliability of the N800
 

If you do not care if it is linux or palm or whatever why did you buy the n800? There are tons of devices out there, This is only device of its kind out there? You compare it to things that are not the same. It is not a palm, its not an organizer. Its not windows mobile, nor did it ever intend to be. It is not a UMPC, it is a "internet tablet". I agree that the email client sucks, I agree, that the web experience is not the best. These things can be determined in minutes, so again, I am unsure what exactly you thought you were getting? The fact that you are upset about syncing software to me verifys the fact you purchased the wrong product. It is a device that is targeted at keeping you in touch. It keeps me in touch with what I want to use it for. Again if you do not like it, I still think you should have mailed it back and gotten your money back. I purchased a phone from Nokia direct and kept it 2 days and mailed it back because I did not like it. You are the master of your destiny. I am not a developer, I could not code hello world, but I can read, and I have a very good understanding of computers and Linux. I was not trying to dump on you, but merely point out that you should put a little more effort into determining what you purchase and verify it will meet your needs. If like you say you make enough money to not worry about it, I can not understand why you are so upset about your mistake, and perhaps maybe invest a little more next time and get a umpc.

Re: Reliability of the N800
 

@penguinbait,

Good post but let's forget the "send it back" stuff, as I said, I live in Finland and that does not fly.

However, I did do some research on the device and the flaws are not actually apparent until you hold the device in your hand and start to use it. Then the flaws come screaming to the foreground. Anyway, it is okay. I lived, I learned. No worries.

BTW, the reason I have money, is because I seldom waste it. This was not actually a waste, but I could see myself buying it maybe 6 months from now when it is a bit more mature and more applications are there for it.

Re: Reliability of the N800
 

I would also dispute the assertion that Internet Tablets (770 & N800) are "designed for developers" as that's not true at all.

Internet Tablets will work - mostly - out of the box as designed, but if you want to get the best out of them you need to put the time in and learn a few basic skills, however you don't need to be a programmer/developer - just someone willing to put in the required effort (reading, learning and do-ing - having a PC available with Linux or a LiveCD is handy too!)

Internet Tablets are not unlike Windows Mobile devices in this regard as even Windows Mobile expects you to learn an awful lot of cr@p about obscure apps/shareware that you need to download in order to get the full benefits out of the crippled OS. However with the Internet Tablets you can do an awful lot more hacking *yourself* than you ever can on a Windows Mobile device. For some, this means Internet Tablets are more fun, while for others it's too much like hard work and may put them off entirely (which is totally understandable).

Re: Reliability of the N800
 

@Penguinbait:

1st, we don't have a return policy here. 2nd, I purchased the device as an quick-online-web-checking kind of a thing were a laptop would be to much trouble. I've read quite a few reviews before deciding to buy one. That's the reason I didn't buy an N770 in the first place! And thats's why I said I was dissappointed. It's not the 'quick-online bla bla' thing I thought it would be.
I am a bit of a gadget freak, I have a lot of them lying around. Most of them work as designed/marketed, but the N800 clearly does not. My girlfriend for instance cannot use the device like it's suppose to:

"It says: Internet Browser closed unexpectedly, did I do something wrong"? No dear, you have to start it up again, and try again. Eventually it'll work. I think...

"It says: Weather updating. But I can't start anything."
Oh, just power cycle it, that's normal...

etc etc

Sorry, but that's not a market ready device. She won't even touch it now and starts up the laptop instead.

Tweaking/hacking the device won't cure problems like that.
As for the device being Linux: the problem here is stability. That has nothing to do with the OS at all. I hate Windows Mobile, and yet, it always does what I expect it to do. It doesn't crash/hang/freeze/reboot/bad touch screen on me. Ever. Like my (antique) Palm, my gameboy, my celular phone, my calculator and a lot more portable devices. They are flawed, but work as aspected.

This thing isn't stable. Not even close. Period. Don't start discussing wether or not I should've bought it in the first place, that's not the point here.

I agree: new users should test this device. A good device sells itself. A bad device doesn't.

Re: Reliability of the N800
 

We have to agree to disagree. This is by no means a finished product and anyone reading this site for the first or second time will see that for the most part only developers are here in mass.

Exactly. How many users happen to have a PC with Linux or a LiveCD laying around just waiting to be put to use working on an N800. That made little or no sense. I will say I have learned some skills from the time I put in. I can reboot, remove the battery and take mine back to Nokia for a new one with the best of them.

I would be willing to bet that most people that purchase these devices @ retail prices are looking for a device that works out of the box, minus the fun part of hacking. I know for me, and speaking only for myself, that I just want it to do what I need it to do. I could not care more about hacking and having unfinished software, or buggy software, or software that crashes my device. In regards to this product, I just want it to work. If I need to play with things, I have an Xbox, a couple Macs, some cameras, etc.... You are quite correct though in stating that it can be like hard work. Luckily for me, someone was kind enough to help me install some things and to make my experience a bit more enjoyable, but all in all I wish I had kept my money and bought a new lens or something.

Re: Reliability of the N800
 

It is a cliche that users who want a guarantee that their product will be stable don't buy an early version. This was commonplace knowledge back in the days of Windows 98, let alone now. I cannot count the number of people who have pointed that out over the years.

After the latest upgrade I find my N800 to be quite stable and useful.

I am not a developer.

Re: Reliability of the N800
 

I'll second that.

(I won't react to "you stupid early adopter, you"-like remarks as I have pointed my opinion out already.)

Re: Reliability of the N800
 

I'm not a developer, and I'm a Linux newbie but so far my N800 experience has been positive. Maybe I'm just lucky, but mine has been 99% stable with the factory installed firmware (It randomly rebooted once when I left GAIM running one time) and haven't had any issues with the latest firmware so far. I agree that it isn't as polished as it could be, but web browsing is much better than any WinMo device I have used. I would try the latest firmware and see if that fixes your reliability problems. If you don't want to take the time to download a Linux live cd to install the firmware, then don't and use the Windows installer they just released (http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010). I don't know how well that installer works as I actually wanted to use the Linux flasher to learn how to use the terminal in Linux. Took about a minute to flash the device after downloading the latest firmware.

I have these apps installed on mine and most of them work fine:

Canola
Maemo Mapper
Kismet (a little buggy)
Aircrack-ng (a little buggy)
GPE Suite
Maemo Periodic
GAIM
FBReader
FM Radio
OMWeather
Load Applet
Xterm
Minimo (buggy)
Midnight Commander
MPlayer (a little buggy)
Maemo Stars
Maemo Recorder
MaemopadPlus

Prior to owning my N800 I had practically zero Linux experience as I have been mainly a Windows guy. I haven't had any major issues with installing/configuring things, then again I'm willing to put a little time into reading the instructions/ and or guidance of people on this forum. As a gadget lover myself I am amazed at the potential this device has. Name a WinMo device that can support 2 SDHC cards (albeit with a custom kernel right now), has the wireless sensitivity the N800 has, and the battery life. If they ever get USB OTG working I'll be in heaven as I can forget lugging my laptop around to backup pictures from DSLR's memory cards. With 32GB SDHC cards expected to arrive later this year I will have 64GBs of drive space in the palm of my hand and probably double that a year later.

Re: Reliability of the N800
 

I just want to point out that you seem to be blaming Nokia for the flaws in a third-party application. The Weather app you refer to (OMWeather, for example, is known to be somewhat buggy) is not Nokias responsibility - you agreed to this when you accepted the dialog prior to installing the app. The browser on the other had *is* Nokias responsibility, but I actually find it quite stable.

Re: Reliability of the N800
 

Utter b0llox!

I imagine most (but certainly not all) will have a PC or compatible and to download a LiveCD is not a big deal - that requirement is no different to Windows Mobile where a PC is mandatory to install pretty much ALL software! That's why I said users need to put in some effort - if you're not willing to put in even a little effort to download a 50Mb ISO and burn it to a CD then the N800 is NOT for you. Stick to a Sony PSP, Nintendo DS or Windows Mobile.

If you don't want to hack - and no one is forcing you - then I believe the N800 *does* work out of the box for general web surfing, it's raison d'etre. Yes, RSS and email are cr@p, and the reboot loops should now be fixed with the latest firmware. And if you install any additional non-Nokia software on the N800 and experience problems, simply reflash (Windows or Linux) and go back to the Nokia provided out-of-box experience - Nokia are not responsible if you install buggy software.

I repeat, if you lack even the most basic computing skills and are incapable of learning then the N800 is not for you.

+1 vote :)