|
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Hi all, a new morning and it's time for a new beginning :)
I’ve had discussions with a few of the competitors last night on email and IM and, after sleeping on it, we pretty much decided it makes sense that I step aside as comp organiser at this point. A number of reasons were discussed (if i can remember them all.. annoyingly there were quite a few! :o) 1. We watched users come and go, and there wasn’t as much support for my own proposal as I had hoped.. and im pretty much out of ideas. 2. Whatever the general mood, I’m not prepared to let the result of the “other” thread go and stand as-is, you may need find someone not as stubborn as me :p 3. It allows fresh ideas and a new approach, feel free to argue that the competition was previously mishandled and organised poorly by myself if it enables you to rerun votes or introduce new restrictions (with donor and participant agreement ofcourse). You can start here 4. Continued from above, posts like this make it more difficult for the comp to rerun threads or negotiate for prizes etc - it would be better if that was handled by someone else now who is credible in everyone’s eyes. 5. If possible, we need someone closer to the mod team who can get a quicker response from them to the issues we raise. This could be key to us going forward. Therefore there’s a position to fill, to lead this competition forward in it’s last steps. I have removed my name from the wiki and it now says "Competition organiser: <vacant>", it’s time for someone to step up and fill it. I’m happy to work with you, if you find that helpful, but I'm taking a definite step back and you will drive the competition to it’s conclusion ;) It's a real pain in the *** at times :p, but it's a great opportunity to get more involved with the community :) |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Here are some thoughts from me.
This is what comes to my mind first: Kojacker, don't step aside! Noone could do it as well as you did! Okay, so we have an "other" category in which the developers used some unfortunate "tricks" to get some votes. My first question: were such trickery found in other categories as well, or only the first two of the "other" category are guilty? If only they were, we could either find a good solution (eg. swap the 1st and 1nd places with the 3rd and 4th, or something like that), or just re-run the voting in the "other" category. (With no guarantees that this time it will go clean.) If the other categories were not affected, leave those alone. Kojacker, by no means should you abandon us, I doubt the others could do it any better than you. So, of all the people who wrote their opinions in this thread, there is one person who was unlucky enough to lag behind. This was a thread that was stickied for more than two months, and the competition was organized for even longer than that. I feel sorry for him, but I think there was enough apps in the competition to say that there was a fair deal of developers who _could_ find the information about it. |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Hi, I'm just a user who has no real idea of the difficulties and hard work involved in developing an application.
I donated to this competition and have enjoyed the great applications and games that have come from this great initiative. So heres my tuppence... 1) Kojacker, please don't step aside. You started this great competition and have dealt with any issues along the way openly and fairly. I have confidence in you and that you can resolve this to the satisfaction of the community. 2) The actions of some Developers while probably within the rules don't for me reflect the spirit of the competition. I hope they see how their actions could be construed and consider bowing out of the competition if necessary. This wouldn't be taken as an admission of wrongdoing, more as a respectful act towards the integrity of the competition and the community. Sorry if I'm a bit long winded.:) |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
lol Venemo, you're so melodramatic! :p Im definitely not abandoning the competition - im 100% determined to see it reach the end. I'm absolutely worn out by it, though, and at this point there's more determination than enthusiasm left. I think it could be good for the competition if someone would like to step up and organise it for a while, it would bring some fresh ideas and impetus :)
In the meantime Im gonna go catch up on some sleep .. lazy Sundays for the win! :cool: |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
I agree with Venemo and Kojacker, don't stand down from the competition. I haven't been following the competition much due to personal responsibilities and lack of time, but from what I've seen, you've always been there coordinating everything and ensuring its a smooth process.
Just wondering if the two apps involved in this issue where leading the way from the start, can't we split the prize between them or even split it with third place too. I suggest this as if they were winning anyway, although this situation occurred, they still deserve some winnings for making an application that has benefited the community. |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
But noone beside you, Kojacker, proposed any solution for situation in which polls cannot be unanonymized. Well in this case there is only one category suffering much from this and we would have to decide what to do with it. I think rerunning the poll will do more bad than good - there would surely be different results and developers that did not cheat would suffer from this. Also it will create much fuss and I think it should be avoided to save the good name of competitions like this. Therefore I propose that if there are no means to unanonymize the polls we should take the results as they are now. Lesson should be learned and next competition (I hope there will be one) should have this issue solved by hard rule forbidding this and securing the option to unanonymize poll results for any case. And the last thing: Kojacker please do not leave the position of competition organiser even for a short while! This competition needs an active organiser and you have been doing such a great work! Without you it will surely become chaos in no time. Please do not let it happen. |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
very simple question: did you contact the MAEMO COUNCIL?!
|
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
By the way.... I'm spending more time reading this thread than coding. I unsubscribe from this thread and good luck with all this mess.
|
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
kojacker: There is no reason for you to step down. In the eyes of a developer who was a competitor in this thing it was very well run. I understand completely that you are tired, everyone calling you out here for some bullcrap you did not expect and what is not your fault. Its impossible to make perfect rules, yours were good enough. Just relax for a few days, wait for the mods to respond to your PMs they are on week end holiday too :)
I am a bit surprised why you have not been promoted to a moderator my talk.maemo already when the competition started? They must know you are running a coding competition that involves hundreds of people voting and sending messages to numerous threads, this amount of messages and people need moderating. Removing flame/trolling and of course monitoring the polls so that rules are being followed. What we others could do: make a thread where we support kojacker being promoted to a moderator permanently so we can get a clean ending to this competition and have another in the future! |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
What Jonnenau said is also my opinion , I can't think of a better way to express my feeling , sorry for my poor English. |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
Any results change that doesn't affect the winner will probably not be a big issue - it won't hurt much more than the ego. If the winner changes then we will have a whole different discussion and the only solution may be to run the poll again. This is a community and most things are decided by vote/majority so depending on how different the new results are I think we can give a chance for the contestants on each category "agree/validate/confirm" it by voting and be done with. |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
OK... I didn't read one more page of posts after the one I just replied so I had to post again:
KOJACKER: As one more developer that spent a very good deal of time writing the code and reading all comments on the competition threads: The criticism it is nothing compared to the complements you got! You don't have any reason to feel anything but pride of what you managed to accomplish. Like someone suggested before me: there is no reason for you to remove yourself, just take the weekend off and wait for the moderators response. In fact we probably all should do the same. Once we have the facts (if we can or not make the voters visible, if counting the votes without the new accounts make any difference, the reaction from the contestants with the new results, ...) then we can think on how to "wrap up" the issue. Whatever happens you have our (at least mine) support... |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
|
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
lol thanks guys, I think the more I moan and complain the nicer you all treat me :p But there's no need, really.. Im still working on this. It's just an opportunity for someone if they'd like to take it :) And it might be good to have a change too, bring some energy back :)
I haven't received any further responses from any of the PMs I have sent out to persons directly, so I created a post on the "Ask the council" thread in the community section to see if we get any bites :) I think sometimes mods and admins can lose track of their PMs so it's not a bad idea to bump a council thread every now and again to wake them up a bit ;) Oh and whoever suggested I be a mod.. no thanks! Dealing with people like me everyday?! :p |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
I can understand why people are upset and to be honest its understandable.
Voting should only be one part of it. Others should include uniqueness of the app, utility of the app, quality of coding etc perhaps all scored out of 10 If I enter a competition I would much rather win by independent experts choosing than by a popularity contest. |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
FYI Reggie has updated the community thread, I have requested the new placings.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41451&page=33 |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Ack, gone for a week (sorry, my computer broke down) and then I return to this mess... :(
Sorry you have to go through this now, kojacker - I can only endorse what others have said: You're doing a great job, and I don't see it as a sign of bad organisation that you didn't account for people playing unfair. (And as you said, whatever is going awry with this competition, it will help to further improve any future competitions.) Hope this will work out with Reggies help now! Just please don't disqualify anybody. Unfair advertising or not (or maybe just simply a couple of overly caring friends), a lot of work has put into those applications, so as long as only "valid" votes are counted, everything should be fine. |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Hey all, still waiting for the results or data of the results. It's on it's way, I think attilla77 needs to go home and get it after work :)
Quote:
Quote:
http://stroppsworld.com/wp-content/u...-dastardly.jpg *twiddles evil moustache* However I may disqualify you Nathraiben if you go away and jinx us again! In all seriousness, the first step is to get rid of votes from duplicate/multiple/fake accounts and look for any evidence they may have been created by the developers themselves (not that I believe lullen or the Tweego guys would, just for completeness). What I want is to end up with is a legitimate list of votes from legitimate maemo.org accounts. Then we'll take it from there. |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Hi all, I have received the updated votes from Reggie and attilla77 for the "Other" contest. Thank you everyone for your patience - I know the waiting around sucked but there are some major changes to the results and I hope you can understand why I was so determined to check this all out.
In the interest of transparency im going to list the new votes for everyone here. The first column is the vote total after the multiple account check (votes from 0-post members from identical IPs are removed) and the number in brackets following is what was recorded on the poll. TweeGo 122 (142) Scout 53 (59) qexercise 41 (145) DropN900 39 (39) BackupMenu 36 (37) N9Profile 23 (23) Qvernote 11 (11) eye4 6 (6) KhtEditor 6 (6) Old School 4 (4) Therefore, as this is the vote from legitimate maemo.org accounts, I propose this is the new final order. I haven't been provided with any evidence that anyone has deliberately cheated, but obviously there has been a serious vote inflation. With respect to lullen, I hope you can understand that Im not able to allow your original first place to stand - that wouldnt be fair. But I want you to know that i dont think you deliberately tried to inflate your vote illegally, and you have my thanks for all your help and support during the contest. If everyone is happy, I would like to extend my congratulations to the TweeGo guys :) |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
See - I'm back and everything turns out fine.
*bathes thread in pixie dust* :p Joking aside, I think that's one rather nice outcome, especially with qexercise still ranking in the Top 3 (@lullen: and you DO have affirmation that you have a bunch of rather loyal friends, which should be worth something, too). So, congrats to the TweeGo team and of course to all the other winners (don't you DARE not post any pictures of the conference back here! ;) ) - and to everybody else. Lots of great new applications for us to enjoy, and thus I hereby declare this contest a huge success! Thanks again to kojacker and his helping hands! |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Kojacker, your handling of this has been exceptional. I hope this competition can now conclude on the high-note that it deserves to.
And congratulations to all the winners as well of course. |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
kojacker, no need to feel bad - whenever someone steps in the limelight, he will get a rotten tomato or two in the face, will get worn out by trying to please everyone and in the end still have grumblers (who are either right or they aren't). I say do your best and step down only if a critic actually steps up to the task and does it better. Community-wise the task was to vitalize and motivate developers, and as far as I'm concerned, you're doing a great job with that. Should anyone try anything similar in the future, though (which I actually hope, regardless of the shortcomings of the first try), I'd be happy to offer guidance and maemo.org infrastructure help BEFORE the event :)
|
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Hm, that's funny. As I know I did not
cheat I would like to know, why there are cheating votes for scout. Btw, does this result shows, some one cheated (multiple accounts) or does it proves the developer voted with fake accounts? thank you kojacker, reggie, attilla77 and all the other for clearifying this "situation". regards Nicolai |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
It is also possible, that there was a "maemo newbie" event in some internet coffee shop where a lot of peeps registered on maemo.org and voted for their favourtie app... serious: this means that there were votes from different users with zero postings logged in from the same ip address while voting. |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
|
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
|
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
Thanks for your work! |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
I just can't believe the attitude of some people on this forum/community, someone goes out of there way to provide a service for free might I add and people have the nerve to throw it in Kojackers face?
Im not gona feed the trolls and have a massive rant, to be honest I wish I could but the questions I ask myself is, why didn't these people make requests for changes to the competition in the early stages? If you felt that not enough people knew about it Im pretty sure that a quick chat with kojacker would have led to a solution! There have been problems yes but I hope that instead of having a big old cry about it instead we could be more constructive and apply the lessons we learnt to the next compotition, hopefully run by the one and only kojacker ;) |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
lol thanks Spotfist^^ :D
It's been quiet on here, but there has been some beevering going on in the background.. and I have a final list of results for the remaining categories! A bazillion thanks to Reggie and attila77 for doing the hard work on these :cool: The results were checked with the same criteria as before in an effort to remove votes from users with dummy or multiple accounts. There are a couple of changes to the results, but the majority of them are the same. In the interest of transparency/clarity/nosiness here they are Edit: To clear up any possible misunderstanding Ive since removed the votes, but the apps are sorted from 1st place downwards. Pls pm if you'd like to know your own votes. Desktop Queen Beecon MyContacts Maenotify Sticky notes FeedingIt K9 call Location & Navigation CloudGPS Advanced Geocaching Tool modRana MetroMap Libellule System & Utilities Faster Application Manager ApMeFo Alarmed Extended Call Log FastSMS Quick-launch Case File Manager SleepAnalyser Auto-Complete Editor Buddy NetStory Stroke Order Chinese Input Method Gonvert URPO KitchenAlert Push-It! ShipRolling Games PSX4M Destroid Bos Wars Skid Stone Reaction face-off Flobby PeQersi Vectormine Graphics & Multimedia PenPen Sketchbook Metre eSpeak GUI Client DreamRemote Groove Classic Print footify Classic Cam LastGo eSpeakTime mSoma Beginners DropN900 qexercise ApMeFo BackupMenu N9Profile Metre Destroid Groove eSpeak GUI Client URPO LastGo eye4 Push-It! Skid Stone Stroke Order Chinese Input Method K9 Call KitchenAlert There are a few vote variations here and there, but I'm pleased to say no evidence to determine developer cheating. The big news would be the change of beginner contest winner, with DropN900 now taking the crown moving qexercise into second place. Venemo, sorry dude, Sticky Notes drops a place after the recount.:( jonnenau (the developer of DropN900) you may also be interested to know that we have some exciting news from Nokia regarding the beginner contest! I've been chatting with Quim, and he's going to offer the same Nokia prize to the winner of the beginner contest too! :D Quote:
As it was my own bounty for the beginner contest, hmm should we move my first prize (or part of) down to the second placed entrant?.. We can't reward you too much jonnenau or you'll be spoiled! :p We can discuss it if you like ;) Im going to be in touch with everyone who won something over the next while, there are literally billions of you so please be patient. i won't have forgot, i'll just be making my way through y'all :) I'll also update the individual threads with the results asap, and send off a final list of first placed winners to Quim. Wow.. I do believe we are getting near the end! |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Uhm... wow...
Please tell me my entry in S&U was a typo - if not, consider taking me off the list, as I don't need my name slandered just because some arsehole thinks it funny to cheat in other peoples names. I have to say, by now I'm pretty underwhelmed by this "community". Cheating for getting your own app up there is bad enough, but THIS is as low as it gets. I have a professional reputation to lose, thank you very much. Hope whoever did this chokes on his own big, fat, cheating grin. |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
If anyone is wondering, Nathraiben came in second in the original voting poll and was still in second (with a smaller count) after the checks. I think we can safely say she deserves her second spot :) Hmm.. I was kinda warned at the start not to put the totals up there but I went ahead anyway... Ive edited the post now to remove them. If you want to know your individual totals just pm me but, except an odd few, they are what were on the poll. There's nothing to suggest anyone cheated, if there was they wouldn't have their name on the list to begin with. Also, please don't feel any hurt or embarrassment if your vote is a little lower after checks than before.. nobody is pointing fingers at you.. honestly. We're just clearing the voting up. Certainly if anyone felt that way I apologise, that was not the intention at all. :( Edit: pm to Nathraiben sent to help clear up any issues |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
Very excited if I'm really gonna get the trip, have never been to Dublin or Ireland for that matter :) Thanks for everyone who voted for my beginner app and stay tuned for updates because there sure will be more of those! |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
It isn't funny. I didn't cheated. But I can not prove it. I wished I hadn't participate in this competition. |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
Im grateful that you entered the competition nicolai, and Im sure all the voters who awarded you so highly are pleased too. Don't focus on the 6, but on the 53 voters who liked your work the best :) Im sorry you wish you hadn't participated :( Quote:
Man.. this competition has been a rollercoaster from beginning to end.. I can kinda see why nobody has done one before :o |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
There is no reason for entrants who got votes remove to think they had something to do with it. Did you ever think that those might be totally real votes from real N900 users? Remember that ALL new account votes were removed from the total counts. This means that a new talk.maemo.org user could have and probably did come and vote in the contest and happened to pick YOUR application from the rest.
This was the known down side of this decision that real votes from people that you don't know or have never said anything about this competition could have been removed. There is no reason to think that few dropped votes would mean you had anything to do with it at all. I am sure that many many legitimate votes from new forum members with maemo devices were also included in the votes removed, as this forum most likely gets tens and tens of new users every month. That was the down side of this vote elimination to get real results into one category, and it was probably totally random. |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Sorry, no sunny comment from me - everybody has a line, and mine hasn't been crossed, it has been hyperjumped.
But first of all I'm sorry if you got the impression that I'm blaming you for this, as I'm most definitely not! I don't even think posting the results was a mistake - I was rather curious myself, and I think knowing the actual numbers is a good thing. My problem is soley with those lowlives.who not only think that cheating is fun, but have to top it off by making others look like cheats. To further explain why this is so much of a problem to me: customers place a lot of trust into me when hiring me for a job (I'm working with sensible human resource data), and I've always made sure I earned this trust by being upright and always keeping to the truth (sometimes even hurtfully so). And now imagine you're one of these customers and googling the person you're going to give access to your most sensible data to and one of the first thimgs you read is them having 1/4 of the votes deducted from a contest result because they where cheat votes. Something like this can get me into serious trouble - and thus has turned a great contest that shone because of how the contestants where helping each other and cheering each other on into a threat to my most important belonging: my credibility. Again, this isn't your fault, and there's nothing you could really have done. (The only solution I could think of for any future competitions would be to somehow get a voting script up that doesn't display the results - and only announcing the filtered results at the end of a competition without mentioning the number of cheat votes.) Please rest assured that you're still our hero for getting this contest up and running, and other than the mess these lowlivews have made, it was a fabulous contest! (There, at least a hint of sunny now that my killing mood has cooled off a bit... ;) ) |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
I think we made a difference in the number of new apps but also in the development that was done in the existing ones. And we also have a legacy by advertising and displayed the apps in their glory - you can tell from the discussion threads that a lot of new users have hopped on board even some of the more obscure apps and got involved :) Its great to see new threads open, help offered, and advice being given to take these apps to the next level :) Quote:
I can understand why you're upset but at the same time, I kinda think you're taking a little bit too much to heart :o *ducks* OK some ApMeFo fan may have got a little overzealous with their hero worship (I really don't believe anyone would try to inflate your vote to discredit you) but in any case and any way, shape or how no one thinks your result is invalid - you're a very worthy and solid winner :cool: If you're worried about the google spider I'll hold it at bay with a pointy stick for the meantime.. it shall not index! But you may wanna remove any trace of any concerns from your posts in the meantime if it helps your future client searches (if u like) ;) You're a great runner up and ApMeFo is a great app. Im sure we all can see that. And if your clients of the future don't, I'll turn my pointy stick on them.. rawwrrrrr! |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
I was on a vacation for a week and only got to reading this thread now... I have to say I was starting to lose hope some moments ago.
But everything turned out well in the end. Congratulations to all winners and especially you, kojacker, for running such a successful competition. Thank you! I think you above all would deserve the trip to Dublin. Who knows how many of those applications wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you. I'll be looking forward to the next competition, hopefully with you as the organiser once again! |
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The First N900 Coding Competition! 21st May-21st July. Open to all!
Quote:
I only live about 4 hours away from Dublin by train, so a trip would be wasted on me. Certainly if anyone deserves one on the organising side it would be zehjotkah. The guy sat through his family holiday receiving and updating paypal payments and organising the whole treasury end of the comp. If it wasnt for him, we'd still be here waiting for the official maemo.org paypal to be created :p He's a real 'maemo-head' too, hopefully that doesnt translate as offensive :P, but if you search Youtube for any n900 app review the chances are you'll find him doing it.. so definitely if Nokia offered anything I'd ask it to be passed onto him. But we're not seeking anything, glad to be involved :) zehjotkah's a bit of an unsung hero so I wanted to mention that all in here :D Quote:
Maybe I'll get the chance to take part in the next one though.. it's definitely more fun to be on the coding end :) |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 11:49. |
vBulletin® Version 3.8.8