Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

Indeed.

I would also like to know, if we don't get Flash 10.1, who is to blame - Nokia or Adobe. And what are the reasons.

If there is a good reason, fine. Even if it's a business decision - I can live with it. But what I won't be fine with is if we don't get any explanation from Nokia. They owe us at least that. No, there was no false marketing. But there were realistic expectations and they should show good will and go out in public with a reason - whatever it may be.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

I still think something is ridiculous with it being the first device presented on Adobe's video.

Although, it wouldn't be Nokia that got hit for the False Advertising if the N900 does not get flash: It would be Adobe, as they are the ones that showed 10.1 on the N900 originally. Nokia, AFAIK, hasn't said **** about it.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

What would flash10 on the N900 do? It would please existing users..

Would it attract new users? very very few.. far fewer than would be attracted to a new phone, not a 6 month old one.
Would it cost money? of course.. they'd have to work with adobe.. It would cost time and money.. using engineers that are already thin on the ground, Meego is where they're at..

Remember, work is put into a project to attract sales.. not to keep customers.. the N97 proved that.. jeez *shudder*.. and the N900 is going to look REALLY old when the N8 appears with all the nice maps and PC support and flash and stuff that works and is finished

(whether or not it actually works is a different matter.. many thought the n97 would work... but it was pretty ropey for 6 months)

Ovi Maps and flash 10?? I doubt we'll see it on the N900..

Pleasing existing customers just isn't worth their time... there's more to be won with Meego..

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

If nothing else it would show that consumers were right to invest in a Nokia product and expect some form of commitment from Nokia. Ever since the MeeGo announcement, public communication from Nokia in general (in particular, Bugzilla) has dropped close to zero (excluding all the "What shall we do with MeeGo?" discussion). Who has a clue what is going on with Maemo or even PR1.2 anymore?

Unfortunately this is all pretty typical behaviour - shove one OS out the door followed by lots of hoorah, then change tack and drop that OS mid stream and go into radio silence for another 9 months leaving existing device owners up a river without a paddle... it's fecking annoying, but utterly predictable.

I'd love to see Flash 10.1 on Maemo 5/N900, but judging by the (non existent) level of public discussion from Nokia with regard to Maemo 5 it's already a dead platform so I'll be amazed if any major upgrades like that appear in future. Qt is all we can expect, assuming PR1.2 ever arrives.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

PR1.2 will definitely arrive.. I wouldn't be surprised if we had one may be two more PR releases, but we're not going to see much else

Remembering the days of the 770, although it got "hacker editions" of future OSes, the closed "good bits" were left out.. Why, because the right/license to use these new good bits weren't included in the original cost, so you're not entitled to use them.

Flash 10 is going to be the same.

I love Maemo, and I'm certain to buy a Meego device when it eventually arrives.. but I seriously gave up wishing nokia would fix the "seriously, it doesn't do xxxx" problems in any of their devices...

The fact they still advertise sat nav stuff on the N900.. (and list the BH-905 headphones as compatible accessories) is not because they ever plan to sort these things, its because the hint sells..

Cynical I know.. but I've been a Nokia customer a very long time.. and for all their faults, I doubt I'll go anywhere..

You're right.. it is ironic that a company that specialises in communications devices can be so mute!! but I think that is either because they don't have a firm answer and don't want to disappoint when a change in direction happens later... or they know the public won't like the answers they seek..

imagine..

Nokia Press release 2010-05-21

Nokia is working with adobe to bring flash 10 to the Meego platform and Symbian^4 platform for new devices H2 2010.

One small riot later..

The thing that surprises me most is how hopeful people are.. They've been doing this type of thing a long time.. its core to their business practises!!

This all sounds negative, but really.. they sell a million phones a day.. they don't care..and the majority of their customers don't either..

The thing is, loosing a customer to samsung, motorola, sony ericsson because they have a shiner "Feature phone" is one thing.. the customer is likely to come back..

but losing a customer to google, rim, palm or apple.. that's a sink.. people don't come back because the long term support and immediate satisfaction is higher..

throwing the customer base a bone like sat nav (a feature that is rubbed in our faces with consistent tv and other media advertising) flash 10, a working ovi store, pc support.. the stuff other nokia customers get to enjoy would counter that..

I think they're just hoping to get us on the rebound..

oooooww... I feel cynical.. *shudder*

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

Seems like Nokia is putting all the goodies on Meego. N900 customers are as such small so they dont reaaly care. the new platform is where they will invest in.

Too bad for us if true.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

Maemo is pretty much dead in Nokia's eyes. Besides whatever remaining firmware updates they plan to push, all efforts are on the much bigger Meego. Whether that means the N900 is dead with it, who knows

Nope, they're not listening. Not on here at least.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

I guess I am dumping N900 for android.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

I sense an almost-organized revolt against Nokia originating who knows where. Maybe it's paranoia, but when someone asked whether he should buy the N900 now, IMMEDIATELY four or five messages were posted saying he shouldn't buy one at all. Several of them were very short, and from new users.

If I was Nokia and thought the Internet affected sales, this kind of apparent campaign would bother me If real Nokia users are getting edgy, such a campaign could be effective. If real Nokia users are happy, their attitude would drown out such a campaign.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

This is particularly embarrassing given that we saw Flash 10.1 demoed on the N900 in October.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pee3nT4bPw4

8 Months later and no release. We already know that it won't be included in PR 1.2, whenever that is released.

Nokia seems to be increasingly trailing the pack with development initiatives, not just in terms of their own internal development of features, but in terms of partnerships with other companies and 3rd party application development as well. Nokia needs to be first out the gate and stay ahead of the pack if they want to win new customers and they need to support existing users/devices at the same level of ongoing support as delivered by Apple and Android if they want to stand a chance in hell of getting repeat purchases from their existing customer base.

I've stayed with Nokia through 4 devices, because every Maemo device has, at time of release, delivered the nearest thing to a full desktop Internet experience in a device that could fit in my pocket. At this point, I am really not confident that this will be true when the first Meego devices come to market and I have been burned enough by the level of post-sale support that Nokia (doesn't) provide that I am highly unlikely to purchase anything from Nokia again.

Nokia actions speak louder than their (lack of) words. At this point, they are ceeding the high end smartphone race and are being relegated to the high-volume, low profit margin 3rd world markets. I can't see that being a desirable thing or a position with longterm stability, especially given the number of very hungry cell phone makers in China. Maybe in 20 years Nokia will have completed it degeneration and will be making making paper again.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

Please claim down, adobe said that they provide kits to Open Screen Project to port Flash 10.1 into N900

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

Nokia will decide the future of N900 in terms of Flash Support. Everyone knows that the N900 has the hardware necessary for Flash 10.1!

It's about implementing!

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

Well dont blame Adobe in here, Everything is based on market.
N900 market is pretty small compared to Android. So If I were them, I will focus on the android first then N900.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

By the way, how many of us is here? Any proximate number of N900 customers?

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

The number will grow in time to come as Nokia seems to be releasing N900 in many countries in the coming months.

This gives me a hope that N900 will survive for years :)

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

This is being recognised not just by us, but also by mass market journalists and, perhaps more importantly, stock market analysts who have recently started down grading Nokia stock as they see no future uptick in terms of innovation or competitiveness against the likes of Apple/Google. Heck, Maemo/MeeGo isn't even mentioned in the aforementioned article!

It's one thing for us to bellyache about Nokia not delivering on the software upgrades to perfectly good flagship devices less than a year old, but when the stock price starts to drop the suits will begin to take notice. Not that it will do us any good though.

If Nokia were to discuss their plans more openly, and raise awareness of what they are doing and where they are headed, and be seen to deliver upgrades that other competing phones also receive (or don't in the case of iPhone) then I think it will only be good for Nokia (and of course, us). Staying quiet isn't helping anyone.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

23

..... ...

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

:)

What about the number of downloaded fMMS app?
I know can be downloaded many times by one user, but also there is number of users they never knew about existing of this app or just don't need it.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

Haha!
I hope that the next owner of your device will be a better community member and less of a troll than you!

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

No, Nokia has never released any sales numbers for the N900. There has been much speculation on this issue based on numbers of app dowloads and the like, but there is nothing firm. Commercial developers who code to pay the mortgage really want to know the size of a potential market before investing their time and money.

My general feeling is that if Nokia engaged the user and developer community more directly, it would do a lot to calm the tensions that are often seen here and spur more development. The not knowing and uncertainty is far more deadly to the community than bad news delivered succinctly. Like the bard said, "If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly."

Rip off the band-aid already, Nokia!

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

Except the N900 with Flash 10.1 kicked off Adobe's presentation and quotes from Nokia executives were part of their official press release:

“As a longtime partner of Adobe, and more than 400 million Nokia phones shipped with existing Flash technology to date, we are excited to see Flash Player becoming a reality for mobile phones and other mobile devices,” said Purnima Kochikar, vice president, Forum Nokia. “Nokia is excited about full Flash Player coming to devices and we are committed to supporting Flash Player 10.1 on mobile devices in 2010.”

I love how they have just demonstrated Flash 10 on the N900 and the VP just makes a broad statement about supporting it on "devices" in 2010. Makes you wonder whether they had any intention of delivering Flash 10 even then.

Early marketing materials also glossed over what version of flash would be on the N900 when shipped.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

lol what


flash 9 has NO GPU SUPPORT. all software rendered
flash 10 HAS GPU SUPPORT. imagine what could be possible

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

This basically means that if we don't see Flash 10.1, it was Nokia's choice :)

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

True. Blame it on Nokia!

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

So, from what I have seen, it comes down to this (big speculation incoming):

In order for Flash 10.1 to work on Android, you need Froyo, because Flash uses new and special API's. No Froyo, no Flash. And, if memory serves me well, it runs natively, not through Dalvik.

It is highly probable then, that for Flash to work on the N900, it will need as well special native new APIs... that will come with MeeGo/Harmattan. No MeeGo/Harmattan on the N900, no Flash 10.1.

An HTC Desire is becoming more and more interesting as time passes...

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

it is not officially said that no meego for n900, so plz stop throwing non concrete stuff to the air

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

I believe the problem isn't so much so what will be releasing on the N900, rather, it is the lack of communication on Nokia's part. We will get MeeGo (Nokia or not), we will get Flash 10.1, once this whole PR1.2 fiasco is settled. Heck, we may get commercial apps for the N900 when they are released on the next MeeGo device. There is a reason why Nokia brought the latest version of QT to the N900.

Now, I agree with everyone that said Nokia is being way too secretive about everything. For a device that's built around the developers and early adopters, the silence strategy is not a way to handle device suppport. It should be the exact opposite because developers who invest so much time in bringing apps to the platform need to be aware of what is going on. Nokia should be working closely with the community and should keep them in the loop.

If this does not happen, you have situations like these where a RC is released and the community turns into a mob due to lack of direction. This is bad PR and will affect brand loyalty in the future, especially with part time developers because that's where the real innovation comes from. If you are listening Nokia, forward this post to Ari Jaaski.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

IMHO the N900 will get Flash 10.1, eventually.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

is android 2.2 out there?

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

Not the best way to deal with CR:
A better way to deal with CR:
HTC: 'most phones' launched in 2010 will get Android 2.2
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/21/h...t-android-2-2/


I'm just stirring.. whilst waiting for some Java compiles to finish :(

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

I doubt the licensing cost (to adobe) is substantial.

But what is the true 'cost' to them? It prolongs N900's life and that reduces the number of potential people who would upgrade to the next model because those people can still enjoy the latest software features on the n900 (flash 10.1).

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

I imagine it is developer time.. With Meego 1.0 hovering in the air, Nokia are almost certainly rushing as fast as they can to throw together a MeeGo phone and the platform to go with it..

Taking those developers away to work on this pesky old platform would irk some project managers.

Imagine, two projects..

1) bringing flash to Maemo5
2) bringing flash to MeeGo 1.0

Which is going generate more sales in the short term? neither..Which is going to help sell the next device (which we know existing N900 users will buy) project number 2..

It would be very embarrising for Nokia to launch a MeeGo device without flash10, especially since all but the iphone are clambering to get it on their platforms

Then again, maybe it'd be a synch to back port the Meego version, that'd be neat!

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

Oh, I think we're all keeping in mind that qole may be wrong. In fact, I expect that's rather the hope of many.

qole, meanwhile, better be hoping he's right, because if he's wound everyone up needlessly, we're going to throw him.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

Which is going generate more sales in the short term? neither..Which is going to help sell the next device (which we know existing N900 users will buy) project number 2..


I love the n900 but based on nokia's inability to answer my questions I won't be buying a third nokia device in a hurry. So I wouldn't bank on all n900 users buying a meego device. I am not very tech-minded but I do enjoy tweaking some stuff. However, getting developers to waste time hacking/porting flash to a device that is sold as a web monster if just taking the p*ss quite frankly. I think people could spend their time more creatively.

They'll be expecting people to port the effing sms module next. Seriously.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

I really doubt the Flash version running on a device will make people buy it... I bet no-one will change from the N900 to its successor because of the higher Flash version.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

I don't mean the public.. the public are never going to be able to port Adobe's flash to anything, it is closed, proprietary trash.. I mean porting as an internal effort.. like MeeGo on the N900 is an internal effort..

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

Either way, i won't buy a further device if that is the case. I chose the N900 mainly, but not exclusively, for the web browsing capabilites. If i wanted to see 'download the latest version of flashplayer' appearing there are other devices I might have held out for. There is kind of an expectation that if something is touted as having 'full flash version x support' that when the next version arrives it will be upgraded.

However, it may all just be hearsay. I hope ;)

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

The only future for N900 is NITDroid. If we can have a Froyo really well ported then N900 will have Flash.
Meego will support it and btw, I am starting to be really curious about the new device, any news?

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

I can see Nokia being (slightly) driven with a strategy going to a 'more-services-less-devices'.
See with Apple how much money they make with only few devices. I believe that Nokia wants to make more and more money with selling services too.
Meego is going this way: the device will be much more upgradable as former devices.
the N900 is at the crossroad, in-between the period where Nokia would sell more and more devices to earn more money and the period where Nokia will sell more updatable devices.

But if Nokia want to have good reputation. They have to make it today to sell better at the end of the year and next year.

So Flash 10 is part of it. If they announce together with Google that Flash 10 is available now in a Nokia device. I believe this is great news for them. Otherwise, it will sound like: we have it 6 months after Android !!

I personally do not care so much about having flash 10. But I do not get why the leave the words for Android while they could be leading the movement too.

There are probably no direct consequences for the mass market but for all the geeks, the blogs...etc... that make Nokia a follower.

Maemo is not known so much but whatever is done for the N900 will be positive for Nokia, and for Meego. However Nokia is not sure about it.

Re: Flash 10.1 beta for mobile out... just for Android
 

You're right.. I think the N900 hopefully marks an end of "here is a platform designed for one device" and the introduction of "here is a platform for many devices"

Maemo 5 is designed for the N900 where as Android is designed for numerous devices and platforms (hence why it'll run on the N900) For Nokia to keep up with the rest of MeeGo, they'll need to adopt that approach.. It's what user's are definitely starting to expect in a big way..