Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

google a bit.. you will find a quake 2 port written in html5.
this shows that even complex 3d games can be written in html5
http://m.kotaku.com/5507640

so who needs flash?

flash will die:D

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

If Qole says it, it's pretty much a done deal that flash 10.1 isn't coming as far as I'm concerned.

Someone else I respect commented that Nokia never committed to releasing 10.1.

Give me a break! Nokia made a big deal about the N900 supporting flash. This was after YEARS of criticizing flash, so it was a notable shift in point of view.

Now your buyer is supposed to stop and say, oh, but what version of flash is the N900 supporting? I bet that if I surveyed smartphone users today, 90% of them would not know what version of flash is in current use.

So abandoning flash support on the N900 so soon is downright scummy, if you ask me.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

>> His inability to wait for things as opposed to having them the second he wants?

wait ? for things that never come ? lolers. If you buy from Nokia and "wait" because you have "faith" in Nokia , well Nokia already got their $$$ from you.

and yes, the Meego PR fiasco, you know the one where Nokia couldnt issue a straight answer to a simple yes or no question, and where every reply they gave dodged giving a straight answer. Where for weeks users waited without any info from them because they didnt want to admit that the n900 was not officially supported.

as for flash - lolers. One of the main selling points of the n900 was that it had flash, unlike other mobile browsers, and so had a more "complete" web experience. This was the most "desktop" browser experience - its a desktop internet in your hand !

Now a few months later we find no more new flash version, and that n900 "complete" web experience is going to become WORSE then other platforms because other platforms get the new updated flash whereas n900 doesnt and as per this thread, the n900 is going to LOSE access to web sites as they upgrade to flash 10. The n900 "experience" has actually gone backwards. hah - why am I not surprised ?

And yea, based on the previous pattern of behaviour, where Nokia didnt want to support its own hardware with an official Meego release, do you think Nokia will make effort to push another company to support its hardware with an official flash 10 release ? hah again. Seeing a pattern of behaviour here?

Nokia got its last dime from me. I am not a serial hater or a andriod fanboy or apple high priest and actually LOVE the n900 hardware and design (give the Nokia n900 hardware designers a raise !) The multitasking OS is also great and is a key reason why I initially got this phone.

But their apps incompetence is astounding. Ovi store ? lolers. number of companies that have officially released software n900 ? you could count it on the fingers on 1 hand. Even the Opera release was unofficial and was a hobby project. Nobody (except sygnic and joiku AFAIK) wants to officially support software for the n900.

What remains is tons of community apps - which is great (with the lolcopter ironic caveat that most of these apps dont make it out of extras devel, and of course everyone says if you install from extras devel you can brick your phone and its your own damn fault) but this is the generosity of the community who donate their free time, not the work of Nokia. In fact Nokia's failure to get its own Ovi store working have HINDERED the release of apps (i.e. Sygic). Another example is the current PR1.2 release and Qt - people are unable to upgrade to new versions of software written by devs because everyone has been waiting for weeks for the new Qt. Devs have resorted to unofficial work arounds on how to install the new Qt onto the n900 without the new PR1.2.

Guess I was naive and thought that a big "famous" company may have executed things better when they have competitors like google and apple - I have learnt this no. 1 lesson for Nokia.

When you buy Nokia, only buy WHAT IS, not what it will (not) be. That way you could never be disappointed.

Yes this is a rant. You can say "oh you didnt do the research" and "oh its your fault you bought the phone" and even "oh nobody cares about apps, its the open sourceness of the phone that counts and gives me joy!". This is true.

But the bottom line is, Nokia lost another n900 customer. And if you think this is a good thing for YOUR n900, well, keep thinking that.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

So, basically, you're ditching Nokia for what is standard practice with all companies hoping things will be better with others, such as Apple and HTC? Well, good luck. Or, as you so eloquently put it "lolers".

HTC didn't announce Android 2.2 for its older phones officially, so owners of Hero or Magic or Tattoo have no idea if they will get it. And what about some future releases? That's not even in speculation territory. But, that's ok, I guess. Apple abandoned iPhone 1st gen, won't give multitasking and most OS4 features to 3G and will actually charge you multitasking per application for 3GS, iPad and 4G. Also, ok.

My N900 works fine. If it doesn't run Flash 10.1, I am convinced it's not because of Nokia, it's not in their interest. I also believe, strongly, that my N900 will run MeeGo. Nokia is not only bringing MeeGo to my N900, it's supporting Maemo - although it's abandoning it next year - just because of the current users. They do care.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Yes if you google up a bit more you can also find Flash version of Quake 2 done 2 years ago if no longer. And even now to compare to HTML5 perform faster. And don't forget that 10.1 is about to improve and accelerate not only video bout handling vector drawings via GPU as well.

I will repeat what one smart guy here had said some day.
What do you think where thousands of hundred advert companies will move If Flash will disappear from the market? To HTML 5 to make a fully supported html5 across all the browsers doing internet hell for us.
Don't forget we talking about Thousands hundreds of work places * size of company around the world.
Don't for get we talking about instead of prepare banner within 1 hour in flash, 1 day in html5 for now? Cost of production?

As Adobe pointing out Flash and HTML5 can work together same way as was from decade. And if someone will give us alternative to watch youtube via HTML5 good for all of us. The point is, if HTML5 will replace some areas to achieve same level as Flash will be less efficient more processor hog more battery hungry and so on. People following the fashion can ad another one level of stupidity to the internet on top of already exist.

That's what you wont?
For Steve Job's game is clear, find a way around to close here ecosystem even more. Make you believe that technology base on open standard is better since he closing it even more. Same way as some companies made as believe that Operating System based on Open Source will give us more freedom. So why we waiting for update? Go for it! Create your own app.. yes, who knows what new changes and decision coming from above up to us. You are lucky if you can. But we are still depend of this ecosystem as well.

But we talking about mainstream here and majority of users. Flash and HTML is already working for all of us. You have choice and freedom to create your web content. Your customer doesn't need to pay for Flash Player, it's free, You don't have to buy tools from adobe to create Flash content, it's free. The only problem is distribution. I am glad that Adobe keeping this in their hands yet. Imagine what could happen if not.

Apple creating their own Flash player, based on open swf format.
Making it shiny and after couple of years introduce to the world this is the best solution ever because is Apple one. You have to overpay now because is cool, no matter what is inside and html5.. so our version of flash player is even better than HTML 5 now and any other competitor flash player. So, who cares. Let's create the Appternet based on our solution because is the best. People will forget about standard net, one step will destroy all we know and will kill not adobe but all of the companies we know. Ohh and we will remove all the porn from the Apptenet! :)

Sounds good isn't

Don't forget that all of the market players who count don't have issues to get flash players and distribute it across the devices. I am not really getting all conservative developers hate and argument that flash is close. Is not close for you as developer is not as for customer is not for key players and competitors. Nokia has access HTC as well, Even Apple could. Is not the one tat trying to make us happy by force. Right?

So why you developers are so against if that state of this technology is as is and doesn't affect anybody except sick imagination of CEO of one company on the world? Please tell me.

Your conservatism in this case provide to anarchy no matter how good you are and worry about your clear code (for example beautiful simple task like refresh the list after update one item taking full processor power and 30 sec to refresh)

If we developers no matter who you are what technology or language prefer will not stand together against what big players what to tell us internet soon will be the same box as TV set. We should defend of the idea of keep alive the freedom of choice for any price!

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

What pisses me off most.. is that adobe has an n900 version of flash 10.1 laying around on some of their internal servers.. Ready to be installed.. but they wont release it.. even though they have it... ported and ready..

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

For sure they have, but Is not up to Adobe if working in cooperation with Nokia and have confidential agreements. Don't forget what Open Screen Project is about. Adobe will not tell you anything till get green light from Nokia and other way around.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Could it be, just maybe, that at that point there was basically no code or analysis ready that would allow for a basis for such a statement and they did not want to commit to guesstimates ? Go ahead, ask Google on Google IO which Android devices will support Gingerbread. What ? No commitment ? That must mean no Android device will get ever an official upgrade ! Ditto for the N900 and Meego. Maybe such commitment will never come, but they might just as well announce commercial MeeGo support tomorrow. Would you buy your N900 back then and recant your in-retrospect-baseless ranting ?

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

OMG!!! i'm with you 100% i'm looking at the N8 but i know a few weeks after it comes out the N9 will be here with all the improvement and fixes. it's like we pay Nokia to be they guinea pigs and the support for maemo can be a whole lot better..

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

And have you considered the possibility that Adobe changed Flash 10.1 API since the first demonstration and that it's, in fact, NOT ready to be installed, laying on some of their servers. You DON'T know the reason. Maybe it's some bureaucratic nonsense, but maybe, just maybe, there's a real reason. And maybe, just maybe, it's not Nokia's fault. As if they want LESS features on one of their phones. Next MeeGo device will come in 6 months, do you really think they are trying to sell it by withholding features from the N900?

Wait and see what happens, before making conclusions. I am not defending Nokia, but I am giving them the benefit of the doubt, till the story becomes clear. That's logical, no?

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

What? And I though Adobe Creative Suite costed thousands of dollars...

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Yes, But u don't have to buy ADOBE tools to make swf content, that what I am saying.

Download FlashDevelop or Eclipse and OpenSource FlexSDK an you are ready to go. If you are even to lazy to do so go to http://wonderfl.net and you ready to go, even look for thousands of open source code as example done by community. Use Gimp if you need to operate on image assets.

You can even use completely different language haXe and create swf stuff as well.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Wait and see what happens, before making conclusions. I am not defending Nokia, but I am giving them the benefit of the doubt, till the story becomes clear. That's logical, no?[/QUOTE]

How about this for Benefit of the Doubt! N770-N800-N810-N900
All 4 of these devices i paid with my hard earn money and there all are sitting in my tech tub waiting for up date's, it's like come on I put my N900 in the draw for my Nexus 1. Which I've seen more updates in 8 months than I've seen for maemo5 and s60 5th in a year!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

1. What does HTML5 have to to do with Flash 10.1 probably not releasing to the N900? Seperate issues, me thinks and HTML5 has its own resource hogging ways as well.

2. The Flash 10.1 beta needs Android Froyo and does not have GPU support yet, since Adobe is still working on driver support for the OEM's that provided resources. Current chips that will be supported are the 3430 and 8000 snap series.

3. Flash Lite 4 (10.1) on the Incredible blows away Flash 9 performance on N900 for games and video. Ironic for games, since not very playable on Inc (no keyboard), but still a lot better performance. My N900 is OC'd to 800mhz. If not a more efficient Flash version, Android 2.1 must be more efficient, since 800mhz 3430 vs. 1ghz snap should not make a big difference.

4. My guess is that Flash Lite 4 is more efficient and if the N900 had Flash Lite 4, we would be happy campers, since Flash 10.1 sites work fine with it.

5. I think the negative view about Nokia is fair- IF Nokia does not make the effort to have Flash 10.1 made for the N900.

6. Just in the past few weeks, N900 users have lost sites that were working and this will only get worse, since most web sites are in the process of checking now for Flash 10- even if the content does not require it.

7. Within a few months, Flash 9 will probably have far less worth on the N900, except for Flash games you may have saved through Firefox. Even that is becoming a problem now, since less sites allow saving game content.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

could it be that the reason for the delay in Pr1.2 is down to flash 10.1 being included in the update?

Could we be so lucky?

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

The leaked 1.2 had a minor update to flash 9.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

I would hope so but i dont think so. What pissing me off is that i love the n900 but my main reason for getting the phone was that it had full flash and how good the web worked on the phone but now your tell me that we wont be getting flash 10.1 on a device that is more so a computer is backwards and doesnt make since.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Yes, and it's slower. I had to stop Flaemo Project for N900 because it's completely useless in terms of performance. FlashLauncher app bring a little hope. However there is one big issue for now, using hd keyboard crashing Flash. Useless. I started trolling about flash from the day when I noticed performance loos in leaked 1.2. That made me thing that maybe they doing this intentionally even. But that was my emotional reaction after 2 weeks of hard work destroyed by new update.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

By the way this is a picture of the day for me.
Feel free if I am wrong here, to correct my analysis.

Original
http://www.flaemo.com/graph.png

Analysis
http://www.flaemo.com/graph_labels.png

Source Alexa

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

So this all actually means that after we said that iPhone sucks because it doesn't have flash, we suddenly are at the same side. Funny...

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Yea... and with leaked 1.2 my Flaemo project perform better on N810 that on N900... that's funny too

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

That wouldn't be the first time... MMS, power drain issues, exchange connectivity..

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

I have to agree, its not a phone, its a computer with phone bits bolted on, fine thats what i wanted, thats why I bought it, but now its an out of date compuer (withstanding an announcment from nokia that I hope for)... I would expect this to be a run of the mill update... hope I am not dissapointed...

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

sooo i bought my n900 because of full flash in it and that was what nokia sayed about the n900.when it doesnt get flash 10 so i can get my money back or not?it was the same with the ps3 that looses linux after a firmware update and some customers get there money back from sony because sony promoted the ps3 with linux support......

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

This is what I need on my n900. Flash 10.1. Protrait mode in the music player and a on screen keyboad in protrait on the web browser then my n900 would be perfect. The n900 is already faster the most phones when overclocked. The meamo community is the best i have see when dealing with making apps and other things. So can i just get these 3 things ?

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

I bought my N900 from Nokia Shop Italy.
Tech spec says Adobe® Flash® Player 9.4 support.
They are protected from any complaints...

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

[Puts suit on. Checks to make sure everything is zipped up tight.]

Unlike other incompatibilities, this one I like.

flash is the new fax: Just another "Please Go Away" technology I ignore most of the time except for those painful moments when I'm actually forced to use it.

When the n900 specs said Flash 9.4 (?), most of us put our expectations in order. Some like to use the term "Dead on Arrival" when describing the n900, but I think the term "Frozen in Time" is more accurate; it's much easier to thaw something than to resurrect it. But isn't that part of what makes the n900 so exciting? Of all current devices, it seemingly has the least clear future. I love that!

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Or not, time to eat our words... thanks Nokia!

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

what about.........

Is there any way to program something into the existing flash support so that it reports back to a website, telling it that it is really flash10.1?

I have no linux/maemo programming experience at all, but I've done things like this on windows machines before, for example when you can't find the correct driver for something, you can TELL windows to 'just shut up and take my word for it that this is what the device is.'

There must be a mechanism to put a line in to the code of the flash files that changes what version it reports as?

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Is not working like that, First recognition mechanism is in html file. I can mention that I'm using flash 9.0 even if is not true. Way around? Just overwrite html file or just play swf directly (Flash Launcher). For now for example I compiling my Flaemo Project to Flash 10.0 but because I'm using device manager I'm able to switch the options and methods base on your settings to avoid of using any Flash 10 stuff. This way Flaemo is working on N900. But If I could use some Flash 10.0 functionality like vectors or triangle based drawings api you simply shouldn't see anything on the screen. If I will use Flash 10.1 stuff on it there is no way you can cheat. More stuff like tap, gestures, accelerometer, GPS drawing API from Flash 10.0 is something you must use to get advantage of GPU acceleration will never let you display any content if you truly running flash 9.

It's possible to compile some stuff once porting it to flash 9 and take advantage up to flash 10.1. More work required but it is. But how flash content will be displayed is pretty much depend of flash player version.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

I have both the Nexus One and the N900.

Nexus is running Android 2.2 and Flash 10.1 beta.

N900 is running RC 1.2 clocked at 1Ghz.

I've noticed that many flash games are harder to play on the Nexus without the software mouse. The speed of flash, however, is much faster on the N1, which renders many of those same games unplayable on the N900.

I'm just reporting my usage for some games, not in depth and certainly not an apples to apples review.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Funny and sad at the same time.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Yes, don't forget flash 10.1 is not only video GPU acceleration. It's bitmap processing and vector drawing. If your content in Flash will be designed in Flash 10.1 in mind will get even better results. For now 10.1 betta is not even finished version and trying to interpret the old content the best way possible. For example if you drawing simple square using Flash 10.0 methods Flash 10.1 will use triangulation to interpret this shape as 2 triangles and pass data to the GPU or even Vector Processor Unit instead of processor. That will speed up a lot of drawings in this case. If you are still using old Flash 9 techniques I am not really sure I can see the advantage. If AVM2 needs to guess the content type will consume more resources. If will know this from code point of view doesn't need to guess. Passing all of vector data straight away to GPU.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

We've been down that road before without success, but it's a simple edit, so feel free to have a go. Please just remember to save a unedited copy of the Flash plugin so you can revert to it.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

The HTML5 spec doesn't define DRM or any other form of rights management, which is important to sites such as Hulu, and it is why Hulu continue to stand behind Flash because it does support rights management. HTML5, right now, is most definitely not Flash - Flash is so much more than HTML5.

BBC iPlayer (a popular Flash based site in the UK serving the last 7 days of BBC copyright content) would be unable to move to HTML5 for the same reason as Hulu.

If all you want is free, unencumbered video streaming then yeah, HTML5 can handle that, more or less, although the additional streaming protocol support in Flash would tend to suggest it is still the superior streaming solution, DRM or not.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

No in this economy... where every one need to earn some money and every company as well to keep our world running. We have to wait for UTOPIA to make a free of charge the best technologies available on the market and make everyone happy. I bet even my 2 years old son will not get to this point, but at least there is a little chance for my grand son...

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Exactly.

The lack of DRM in HTML5, which is an absolute necessity for certain content - usually, the better content - to be made freely available on the web, is just one more reason why Jobs is talking out of his bunghole. But this is all getting a bit OT - hopefully this now clears up some of the confusion regarding HTML5 and Flash.

:)

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Talk is cheap. This is the wrong place to get heard, we need to act. I propose increasing political pressure towards Nokia by creating a formal petition considering Flash 10 on the N900. I'm sure there will be several thousands of signatures. Who is willing to create such a document?

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Ari Jaaksi just updated his blog and reiterated the line that the N900 supports full flash.

http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2010/05/12-out-tomorrow.html

Saying Full Flash is not very truthful IMO. The N900 only has Flash 9.4 and many sites are now requiring 10. Android has full flash. The N900 HAD full flash. If Nokia wants to update it, there are plenty of people anxious to see that happen.

We saw a version of Flash 10 running on the N900 in October. And Adobe has publicly stated that it has made available all necessary tools to port it to other platforms, so what is the hold up? Can you at least make an announcement as to if/when we can expect to see it?

Other Nokia Maemo devices shipped with full flash versions that were on the edge of being deprecated at time of release and never received updates to keep them usable. If you don't bother to keep Flash up to date, then you don't deserve the bullet point for marketing purposes.

Re: So it begins, Flash sites are updating to Flash 10 now
 

Flash 10.1 on froyo looks pretty buggy and slow ...

http://pocketnow.com/software-1/vide...and-comparison

This actually supports Jobs' attack that Flash was too slow for mobile. Especially in 2007 (pre-cortex A8) when it mattered more to them (iPhone 1.0).