Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Thank you for correcting me. However I still think it is stupid for Apple to ban Adobe Flash. They say they support open standards while in truth they don't. They only support the proprietary h.264 video codec for video playback with html5.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

The ability to create *.swf is open, but the Adobe Flash Player is not open.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

That is pretty common knowledge. You can download the specification from Adobe's website.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

You have to separate the *.swf from the Adobe Flash Player. That's what Apple is protesting. They say that the plugin is responsible for the majority of Safari errors/exceptions.

Yet... they've yet to expose all of the GPU and plugin architecture until... well, just last month.

The problem around Safari and the Flash Player could be surrounding their choices of what they did not make open to folks - not just Flash.

But to say "open standards" and then say "Flash Player" in the same breath, it's a bit off. I'm going for accuracy here.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Correction: the h.264 standard is, in fact, open. However, it is also patent encumbered, which is the problem. Hopefully the MPEG-LA will get snarled in a nasty patent war with Google and something good in the way of docking software patents will come out of it, if re. Bilski doesn't.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Say what you mean, mean what you say. Accurate terminology is precious in conveying an accurate meaning and argument. Flash is NOT a standard. It's common, but not a standard. (Much like RealPlayer was common--but never a standard.) Apple might have nefarious reasons, but what they're saying about HTML5 as a better way to present content on a web page is quite reasonable and well said. h264 is an encumbered standard due to patents--it's not a piece of software, it's a standard--but that's yet another element of the conversation about HTML5 implemented video versus requiring a Flash plugin just to present video content.

In the end, HTML5 *IS* the right way to go, but which codec to use is a whole other conversation.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

WebM will pwn !!! let the patent wars begin !!!!!!!!!

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

So if my band wants to send out free MP3s of our songs on the internet to get started, and encourage others to send it via Bluetooth to others for free, that's totally illegal? According to Apple it is... Just because you have a religious belief doesn't mean I should have to live by it. Same applies here.

No, it makes the existing distributors (aka labels) of the content happy, not the producers (aka artists). And frankly, most folks have already come to the realization that DRM is a waste of time, since someone always finds a way around it (sometimes before it's even implemented), and illegal copying still happens. This is why major distributors (like Walmart and Amazon) have already chucked DRM in favor of more open non-DRM formats.

Fact is, Amazon makes plenty of money selling standard, non-DRM MP3s. And tons of media players (From Sansa to cheap Taiwan knockoffs) are happy to let you copy those MP3 files to and from their devices like they're memory sticks, and have done so for years. Welcome to the 2000s.

And yes, 100% of my music is legitimately owned. I make my living off selling software. Pirating software or music is counter-productive to my karma. Or were you projecting?

Wrong. If you brick your iPhone you have no recourse but to return it to Apple. That's not the same amount of risk as the N900, where you can always reflash it (via a documented hardware shortcut). Right now Apple doesn't do a postmortem to see why it's dead, but if they change that policy, you're screwed. They also don't have the device phone home, or intentionally shutdown if they find a root kit, but they could if they wanted to quite easily. The N900 has no such mechanism, and because they intentionally expect people to get root and alter their device, there's no worries about voiding the warranty if you do.

Jailbreaking an iPhone is taking a large risk. Up till now that risk has generally not had a harsh consequence if things went wrong, and that may or may not change in the future. With the N900, there is next to no risk, since the tools and permission to do so are clearly spelled out.

Clearly you are "cba faffing" at typing as well...

Tell me, what "basic thing" is broken with the N900? I can make calls, use SMS, MMS, take pictures and videos, upload them to a dozen sites, chat via IM... What "basic thing" is unstable about that? The N900 is one of the most stable platforms I've worked with, which is saying a lot based on where I've worked in the past.

Even just "playing with scripts" is quite useful. Maybe you haven't heard, but there are lots of scripts that do plenty of useful things in the world. The Apple order page is a script, written in PHP, so clearly they think scripts are useful, since that "script" just handed them a wad of cash. And tell me, does your iPhone let you run scripts? No? Didn't think so. So flexible...

As for Nokia's closed binaries, sure, some of it is closed, but everything has closed components. What little parts are closed in the N900 usually have well documented APIs so you can interface with it without needing the code. Beats the crap out of the non-existent APIs for Apple's closed binaries on a jailbroken phone. Your argument is like saying playdough isn't flexible enough because it's not a liquid or a gas, so you should just play with a brick instead. :confused:

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

I haven't heard of any explanation/excuses about the bluetooth situation. But they've been known to ride on technology/standards that they think are taking off and leaving things that are on the way out. Right now that's what they're doing with html5 vs flash.
Reference: Jobs' D8 interview.

How familiar are you of the iPhone's flashing procedure?
Have you heard of recovery mode? Can you point out a bricked-iphone story that's not due to hardware defect?

Yes, companies can change their policy to screw you. (read below)

Have you read about the SMS auto-registration that's done by N900?

This sounds like FUD to me.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

If you don't want to play by Apple's rules then don't use the Apple device. There is no mechanism to determine what is legal or illegal. The iPhone can't suddenly decide to transfer your band's music and not transfer something bought from the iTunes store.


Also, I think it is hilarious that jailbreaking is oh-so-bad and overclocking is oh-so-good. They both void the warranty.

As you say, "I can do whatever with my device"

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

I hardly think Apple left out the ability to share files via bluetooth because they thought it was "on the way out". If anything people are just discovering that such things are possible, and the bluetooth is useful for more than just audio.

What little I've read on it (which is not much) seems to indicate that you have to have the iPhone in a semi-working state to flash a new OS to it. With the N900 there's a clear way to hold down one key ('u') while powering it up, plugged into a USB port, and you can always flash it that way. The iPhone, last I checked was not flashable from a dead stop. If a method has been found to do that, bravo, but Apple didn't tell you how, and it may or may not be supported in all or future revisions of the device's hardware or software.

All that said, when the new iPhone 4 comes out, do you think you'll be able to just plug it in and upload new firmware to it? Or use your non-approved apps on it right away? No. Someone else has to do the work of breaking into it and providing that "trivial" way to break it. With the N900 you can do that right out of the box, as documented in the manual that comes with the device. I call that a key difference.

That's hardly the same thing, and you know it. Frankly, I was already subscribed to the OVI chat app, so no SMS was sent from my device. Did that SMS magically tell them that you'd broken the warranty on your device by installing a root kit? No. Could they send a signal out to deactivate your device because of that change, and legally get away with it based on their EULA? No. Apple could probably make the case for doing so with rooted iPhones though. And if they choose to, do you think you'll be able to reflash your device then? And re-activate it?

Call it that if you want, but by the letter, what I'm saying it true. If you jailbreak your iPhone, you're voiding the warranty and breaking the terms of the EULA you agreed to when you activated it. That's not the case with the N900. With one you're taking a risk, the other you are not.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

PS where is the freedom in Nokias closed binaries ????

So Apple can use the codes without the court?

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

In terms of OBEX file profile support, I think they just choose not to implement\license it to maintain 'sanity' within their control scheme. Maybe they had problem implementing BT send/receive support within their sandboxed apps sturcture.

PLUS, it's dog slow anyway.

Yes, there's been a reliable way to flash the firmware since early on afaik. The cases of 'bricked' iphones that I remember was from an early fraudster that rebranded a free jailbreaking tool and tried to make money off it.

Yes, that is correct.
At this point there is already a workable jailbreak method for iPhone 4; so it's likely to be released at the same time as the official iOS4.

Those are possible, yes.

Yes, but most people generally never think twice about that. Look at the overclocking thread here. It's one of those case of clearly weighted benefit:risk.

I just find that argument.. not so.. uh... genuine, coming from this community. but, sure.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Ah, so if my band doesn't buy Apple devices, then everyone else can share our MP3s? Wrong. Apple's rules still prevent my band from sharing our music regardless of if we purchase from them or not.

So instead it assume everyone is a criminal, and that every transfer (except the ones from iTunes) is illegal. But wait... there clearly is a mechanism it uses to determine that what iTunes is doing is legal. Why can't it use that?

My old Nokia 6230 from 5+ years ago could do this. I could copy anything on the device, and most things off of it. It would let me copy mp3s I copied on or pushed to it back off. But the copyrighted tones and images I got from the Nokia store would never copy off the device...


Where in this thread have I said overclocking is good? Stop putting words in my mouth. You're just trying to change the topic to one you think will suit you better. (It won't btw, since overclocking is yet another feature you can't do with the iPhone, even if you jailbreak it.)

Every time anyone say something negative about the iPhone, the default answer is "OH, you can do X if you jailbreak it." I've yet to hear of one feature that requires you to overclock the N900.

Fact of the matter is iPhoniee fanboys would have you believe that jailbreaking a device is a-OK and everyone is doing it. Reality is that few are actually jailbreaking it, and it's not all roses and wine when you do. And if you do it, to get any of those features that the N900 can do without overclocking or breaking the warranty in any way, on the iPhone, you void your warranty.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

I feel the same about the iCommunity saying our device being "open" is unimportant, but then constantly touting how to break into their device to make it more open to do just about anything at all.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

*facepalm*

You missed my point. If you dislike, Apple's way of doing things then don't use the device. The rules are there and they are not changing anytime soon. You, as a consumer, have the right to choose.

If your band puts the music in the itunes store and offers it for free then maybe you could reach out to Apple users.


Not the same thing. You couldn't delete the stock images and ringtones either. With your old 6230, you could illegally distribute music too.

It is better to be safe than sorry. the iPhone =/= 6230. At the moment, there is no way to prevent sharing of music illegally.

I never said you did. It was just an observation

My phone is so laggy, what can I do?

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Stop arguing folks alright it is kinda stupid. I find it funny how how people are trying to defend Apple's device when this is a NOKIA FORUM. So most people (but not everyone will disagree) here is going to disagree with you alright simple as that. Anyone iPhone fanboy who tells you to jailbrake get feature x, y, or z is stupid the fact of the matter is I shouldn't have to hack a device to get full functionality. A person shouldn't have to hack a device to be able to what they want with a device they payed for enough said.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

The core issues with jailbreaking tend to be these:
- You must do it at all if your needs lie outside Apple's purview
- You must wait for a new jailbreak when an update is released, or you'll be locked down until it is available
- Apple has argued to the Library of Congress that jailbreaking is a violation of the DMCA, and was not deserving of an exemption for purposes of "compatibility"

I don't believe that's up for argument. The problem arises when their model is seen by competitors (Microsoft, Samsung) as The Way To Do It Right leaving us with Windows Phone 7 not allowing any side-loads, and charging $20 to post free applications. It's about pushing back against a business model that is very much anti-freedom and seems to be spreading.

Non-sequitor, Apple doesn't restrict you to music from iTunes.

Well, no. Crippling capability of the fear that someone might share music *gasp* proves that you're firmly in the pockets of the media industry, instead of delivering functionality to your customers.

Never mind the faulty thinking that "if something could be used for an illegal purpose, it should be banned/disabled."

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

That was a genius argument. No one in their right mind should 'hack' their n900 'to be able to what they want' anyway.

@woody: this is what I mean.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

"I shouldn't have to hack a device to get full functionality. A person shouldn't have to hack a device to be able to what they want with a device they payed for enough said"

Totally agree, Nokia promised me activesync with my N900, they lied, and no amount of hacking on this forum has gotten it to work, apple on the other hand promised me activesync, and guess what they delivered.

THE PROBLEM IS Nokia delivered a HALF BAKED OS, and people are having to hack things to get BASIC features to work, im sure most dont mind hacks to gain extra functionality, but having to drop to terminal to FIX problems in the n900 is out of order, hell the fking alarm clock doesnt even work properly, they released a phone without MMS !!!! so how does joe blog "hack" that ???

so Yes I concur when you say "A person shouldn't have to hack a device to be able to what they want with a device they payed for enough said"

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Blame the competitors for following like sheep

Apple doesn't restrict you to music from iTunes but you can't share your music from device to device. Putting it in the iTunes store means your fans can obtain it while on their device.

That's the way business works.

So it is ok to bash a competitor but it isn't ok to defend it?


It's ok to hack the n900 but not ok to hack an iPhone? I'm getting confused here

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Well I'm not trying to defend the Nokia n900. I'm just saying my personal opinion about the iPhone. I think the iPhone sucks and in my opinion everything is better than the iPhone these days when you get down to it.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Sure, but that won't help me in the long run. Apple's business model is entirely worth criticizing, vocally, and just because I don't use their device doesn't devalue my criticisms of it.

It does but it's wrong, wholly deserving of criticism and opposition. Nothing good awaits us in simply letting it be.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

"Tthe iPhone sucks and in my opinion everything is better than the iPhone these days when you get down to it."

Do you own an iPhone or have ever used one ????, that is a very broad and well, dumb statement.

You see this is really the crux of the matter, next year App Download Revenues are expected to exceed $15Bn

Nokia will get damn all of this revenue pissing about with the n900, so thats why it has been dropped like a stone, and it is now dumping its stock in India etc, and thats why it will ultimately switch to android (after messing about with meego for a while that is)

Its apps that sell phones, something that people on here dont seem to realize. The Iphone has long reached critical mass, android is almost there, the n900 well just look at the sorry state of the apps and it is self evident.

N900.....as useful as a chocolate fire-guard

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Fair enough

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

False. I pretty sure I can flood the Ovi store with a gazillion trillion rss type apps and the n97 will still suck. Blackberry doesn't have the largest app store but it is the most used device in N.America.

Functionality sells phones

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

I'm starting to miss the day when phone only made phone calls. Seriously apps aren't the only things that matter. The Nokia n900 doesn't have that many apps because it isn't very popular. Seems like apps are the only selling point which shouldn't be a good thing because Apple has development policies that are pretty stupid in my opinion.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Blackberrys are business phones that offer something the n900 can only dream of, syncing, hell if i remember rightly they are giving a cut down version of the BES away free.

Android has 30,000 apps, Iphone gawd knows 150,000 ????, N900 has 6, yes thats right 6 apps, but because it has functionality it will rape the iphone right ??? hold on wtf am i saying ??? the n900 has no functionality, only crippling bugs, and that is why Apple sell more phones in a week than nokia has sold to date.

Its all about the apps my boy, after all maemo is only an OS, a platform, it is the apps that run on this layer that provide functionality, and thus lead to sales, comprendo amigo ???

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Wrong Android now has 70,000 to 80,000 while iPhone has 200,000.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

reading on the way home, some dude a few pages back said iphone "delivered" activesync and it just works.

yeah right.

nothing works for activesync better than wm, on purpose.

just google iphone activesync, it aint pretty.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Would you mind summing up your argument here, as it is very filled with numbers, question marks, and insistence that apps make the phone (despite the original iPhone having no apps.)

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

i have been using Iphone AS for 6 months now, hasnt missed a beat, most problems are "admins" mis-configuring servers. same for IMAP IDLE and Caldav accounts.

wmarone

"Would you mind summing up your argument here, as it is very filled with numbers, question marks, and insistence that apps make the phone (despite the original iPhone having no apps.)"

Sure mate, the n900 only has 6 apps because any developer with an IQ>5 would not bother developing apps for a dead platform. The question marks were to highlight that these figures were guesstimates, and open to correction (which someone did).

It is *NOT* only apps that make a successful phone, other base qualities are reliability and user interface, sadly the n900 has none of these attributes.

the n900 is the quasimodo of the phone world, and I guess nokia is doing the right thing by putting it out of its misery. The apps on the n900 frankly are an embarrassment, really lacking any QA and polish, and are often as full of bugs as the OS itself.

Finally >60% of the energies here are spent fixing bugs rather than actually creating innovative software apps, n900's ONLY hope is an andriod port.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

6 apps?

making excuses for BB smaller app store?

Do not compute

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Just because the Ovi Store may suck doesn't mean it only has 6 apps. There are more apps if you go to Maemo.org or if you add repositories.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Six apps... oh right you're counting the Ovi store only. Nice way to insult all the people that have been working on software that is in the repositories.

Really? My N900 has been extremely reliable and I find it quite easy to use. Like anything, it could use improvement though.

Also, MfE works quite well. What part wasn't working for you again (that wasn't a result of provisioning, which Android doesn't support either?)

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

Seriously why do we allow iPhone fanboys in our forums?

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

I own both a n900 and a 3gs

hmm im looking forward to monday the 21st to get all that lovely os 4.0 loving :D totally FOC as well :) now *THATS* what i call support (even though they really support way back to the 3g phone just to maximise app sales)....multitasking here I come !!!!!

I expect it will be better than the "much anticipated" PR1.2 release that my n900 bent over and took.

I was raped by nokia and lost alot of money on this phone (n900) so i suppose I have a right to complain. Fanboi I am certainly not, just stating facts my friend.

At this point in time the n900 is years behind the competition and nokia is running around like a headless chicken, and I can see parallels in Nokia and commodore in the early 90's just prior to their collapse.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

iPhone os 4 is merely catching with what the competition already offers.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

"iPhone os 4 is merely catching with what the competition already offers."

Whereas the n900 is merely catching up with the year 2005

Did you know the new ios has 1,500 new features !!!!! now tell me what did nokia give me in my last update, not much and a few more bugs, not even the much wanted 2003 exchange sync.

Re: Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does
 

lolllllllll. I was getting bored and needed a laugh