maemo.org - Talk - Complaints about Nokia, its practices, and its products in the community forums

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Re: Complaints about Nokia, its practices, and its products in the community forums

Quote:

Originally Posted by qgil (Post 711027)

texrat, the rest of points you raise are related more to commercial than to maemo.org / open source / community / developer aspects. Out of my scope, and the best I can do is to help getting the right people/channels to communicate this not to maemo.org but to the whole N900 customer base.

I can brainstorm, discuss and even joke publicly about the topics related to the area I'm responsible of (open source / MeeGo / Maemo communities). I have this freedom in order to do efficiently my job in the community channels. But I simply can't speculate or announce anything somewhere here on commercial topics that the Nokia spokespersons or official channels haven't announced yet.

As Nokia N900 customers you could better organize your feedback around Nokia Care or Nokia Conversations rather than here in a community forum.

qgil, the big problem is that there really is no single source for N900/Maemo related information from Nokia/Maemo.
It is spread all over the place with different level of relevance and accuracy. Most of all timely (news) updates are missing.

Some of the stuff is buried somewhere on this forum but they are hard to find.

Nokia Conversations is a bad place because on the rare occasion that N900/Maemo gets mentioned it will be off the front page in couple of days due to the vast number of othe Nokia related news.

Similar issue with Nokia Beta Labs and Ovi Blogs.

So people (users and developers) are scrambling for news from Ari's (Jaaksi) blog or twitter single line tweets. Peter (or somebody else) posts a tweet now and then and then disappears from view.

Rumors in blog sites are pretty much that is left.

It would be much better if there was a single webpage where all the N900/Maemo news by Nokia would be consolidated. Should be easy to setup, good old websites still have their use. Cost in effort would be small.

Have you looked at the news in Maemo Software - Nokia Maemo News ( http://maemo.nokia.com/news/ )
Latest news item is fairly new (May 26), but the one before it was in November 2009 !!! Imagine if you (or the Maemo/N900 team) was using that source for keeping up to date on the N900.

There are also similar problems related to the development software/documentiation (no single source for all the relevant information).

Re: Complaints about Nokia, its practices, and its products in the community forums

Quote:

Originally Posted by myrjola (Post 711112)

I'm only guessing since it's been over a year since I worked there (:( :( :() but I'm betting that group still has not fully gelled. There have also been a lot of moves lately. Heck, Quim is relocating soon.

But your point remains valid, and it intersects with what I just said in the "Missteps" thread and echoed to email: we need a deep, clear Nokia-Community channel and I'll add "single" to bring in your points.

I'll make myself available for hire if that means a need for more staff. :D

Re: Complaints about Nokia, its practices, and its products in the community forums

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjgadsby (Post 711108)

Discussions outside the bunker, in the community, with people like ragnar and vitaly are things of the past, and that's a shame. (...) Even the rare technical pointers and tidbits igor dropped on occasion were wonderful.

These guys are swimming in MeeGo-Harmattan since they are the ones in driving seats. They also have probably better things to do than exposing themselves to user ranting. You will see them back when MeeGo Handset UX and/or MeeGo Harmattan come under the light. And you might see them more around meego.com than here.

Quote:

We're regressing toward communication levels approximating early-Texrat Maemo times.

Only if you measure talk.maemo.org, but the areas of R&D discussion are moving elsewhere. After the Maemo Summit the discussion about the Security Framework or Harmattan UI Framwork happened here in the Harmattan subforum. Today the same Security Framework was discussed by the very own Nokia developers in meego-dev and expect the same about the MeeGo Touch Framework (former Harmattan UI Framework) as soon as the discussion arises around a released Handset UX.

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Nokia's gone head down, full speed on MeeGo work, but the next big thing is always what leaves this community standing outside, trying to catch a glimpse of something, anything happening beyond the shuttered windows.

MeeGo is still too much in the shadows, running silent and deep. Nokia dropped Elephanta as too small a step and rushed Fremantle out to hold everyone over during the wait for Harmattan, but these repeated waits for the next big, double-secret thing have worn the community's goodwill thin in a growing number of spots.

You have a point here and we feel the same pain on the other side of the mirror. Sorry if I'm feeding you up with the mantra ;) but the MeeGo project solves a part of these structural problems by having a public continuous integration process allowing even normal users to follow the hot topics as they happen: portrait mode yes or not? MMS yes or not? Email app like this or like that? Gestures, shortcuts, Vorbis, Cancel button etc etc etc...

This MeeGo open R&D setup combined with the stuff Anssi Vanjoki, Alberto Torres & co are working on will put us in a different plane. The end of the "step x of y", if you wish.

Quote:

However, with MeeGo consisting of a string of big, future reveals, and Maemo not clearly showing how much life it has left, there's a large information deficit crying out to be filled.

MeeGo Handset UX promised in June. Once this is out MeeGo might have still other "reveals" but not in the UX we are all interested here. We are actually more concerned about pushing everything out rather than keeping goodies for next reveals. Continuous collaboration is the main thing that will bring MeeGo's success.

Today is 11th...

Re: Complaints about Nokia, its practices, and its products in the community forums

Quote:

Originally Posted by PradaBrada (Post 709231)

Hope so, MeeGo needs to die asap

John, if we don't code together, we will debug alone!

Re: Complaints about Nokia, its practices, and its products in the community forums

Quote:

Originally Posted by myrjola (Post 711112)

qgil, the big problem is that there really is no single source for N900/Maemo related information from Nokia/Maemo.

(...)

It would be much better if there was a single webpage where all the N900/Maemo news by Nokia would be consolidated.

You have a point. Would http://www.womworld.com/nokia/catego.../n900-devices/ be a better starting point? But yes, that is not obvious from http://maemo.nokia.com

I'll comment this in my team.

Quote:

There are also similar problems related to the development software/documentiation (no single source for all the relevant information).

There is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/...eveloper_Guide and now the Nokia Qt SDK comes with own documentation, and there is http://www.forum.nokia.com/Devices/Maemo/ . But yes, I see what you mean.

The arrival of the Qt SDK and one day the Web Runtime will simplify this a lot, since there will be a clear set of tools and APIs supported and all the documentation will revolve around them.

I think what you are looking for is what will emerge from http://wiki.meego.com/Application_developer_site

Re: Complaints about Nokia, its practices, and its products in the community forums

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwerneck (Post 711189)

John, if we don't code together, we will debug alone!

This is not a coding community Jack, this is a place that you...
that you all made together, so that you could find one another.

The most important part of your life was the time that you
spent with these people. That's why all of us are here.

The truth is, there is no community. There never was.
Just me and my N900 sat in the church and a man called Christian Shepherd opening the door for us to move on.

Re: Complaints about Nokia, its practices, and its products in the community forums

Quote:

Originally Posted by qgil (Post 711178)

The end of the "step x of y", if you wish.

Not again. If the upcoming MeeGo Nokia handset is indeed the step 5 of 5 and it falls short, what now? What kind of message will it say about Nokia?

For example, if the MeeGo handset will use the current form of Evolution as we see in MeeGo 1.0 (which is unusable and quite primitive for me btw) it will be as if we're back to OS2006. It's not worthy of an ultimate "5 of 5" product if you ask me.

Does Nokia really have to announce something in June? It makes me nervous.

Re: Complaints about Nokia, its practices, and its products in the community forums

Quote:

Originally Posted by qgil (Post 711084)

Trust me: Nokia Conversations.

If they announce something that doesn't happen or they announce something you dislike "venting your frustration" there is more productive than doing it here. Even if they don't talk about something you want them to talk about, there is a Suggest a topic link for that.

That is a Nokia official site devoted to have conversations with Nokia customers and anybody else interested. maemo.org is a community site and the Nokia guys around are really more effective and useful when they can do their work or hobby without customers reminding them about the things they know, are not responsible of and don't really feel like talking about. Less on a Friday night.

The fact you have responed to my post shows that posters are likely to get more of a responce here than on any of the other Nokia sites. I feel posters come to this site as they feel their voicies are being being heard by somebody connected with Nokia, posting elsewhere seems a pointless task.

By the way I am not somebody who does normally "vent fustration" on this website but I was just trying to explain how people at being let down by Nokia's refusal to communicate with their customers.

Re: Complaints about Nokia, its practices, and its products in the community forums

Quote:

Originally Posted by droitwichgas (Post 711220)

That's a fair point. Many of us are frustrated by sheer numbers of people coming here solely to unload, but then, they'll get engagement here. A listening ear, even if coupled with an argumentive mouth, is better than a stone wall of silence...

The true solution is to improve Nokia's reverse logistics. I spent a year in that part of the company and although I won't go into detail out of respect for former colleagues I will say that there's room for process improvement.

Re: Complaints about Nokia, its practices, and its products in the community forums

Quote:

Originally Posted by qgil (Post 711207)

You have a point. Would http://www.womworld.com/nokia/catego.../n900-devices/ be a better starting point? But yes, that is not obvious from http://maemo.nokia.com

I'll comment this in my team.

Uhhuh.. well that makes the information even more spread out, another Nokia site :)
I don't think that I have actually seen that site in N900/Maemo context, ever. Also it seems more like a marketing/portal site than a real (first hand) information/news page.

N900/Maemo news site could have a simple list of news updates directly from Nokia. Everything that you would want the users/developers know about N900 on one place. Simple format so that the more stuff would be visible on the main page and simple/clean navigation. Just keep it up to date and fresh.

Site should also have a status banner/column (newest update/PR info, server issues) and alerts about current "issues" (for example. Ovi Store status, MyNokia SMS) visible always.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qgil (Post 711207)

And there is dev stuff on the QT site as well.

Quote:

The arrival of the Qt SDK and one day the Web Runtime will simplify this a lot, since there will be a clear set of tools and APIs supported and all the documentation will revolve around them.

I think what you are looking for is what will emerge from http://wiki.meego.com/Application_developer_site

OK, that would be great.

Thanks for the reply and info, Quim.