Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

I had a n800 and two n810's. N810 style successor in a phone would have been freakin awesome. It was a sexy device.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

And you'll keep hearing it. Step 5 of 5, 6 of 5, 7 of 5. Just because it makes no sense doesn't mean it can't happen. I'm keeping a special kit here that's old but I like it because at some point is says "Installing, 102% done".

Well, I kid, but there's nothing keeping it from happening. Also, this Meego Frankenstein they're building now has a 1.0 label on it that, if not scary enough, consider the fact that it's a marketing ploy. It's real version should be 0.1, not 1.0, as it's never been widely tested, not several builds released, not stable.

And no, after releasing M5, you don't have the right to call untested software "stable", that card has been invalidated. Need I remind you M5 v "1.0" had the wifi bug?

I understand why people want MeeGo. Necessity. As in, if we don't we're buried. Me, I'd much rather see M5 fixed. I am aware that won't happen. So yeah, hurray, let's move forward to 0.1, restart this unpaid beta - sorry, alpha testers stuff, I'm loving it.

Yes, alpha. Beta is when you think it works, you just want a second opinion.

Nokia has no idea how lucky it is. "Using an advertised feature creates a condition that renders the device unusable in 4 hours" is a condition that warrants return.

If firing up my headlights popped a hole in my gas tank I'd use whatever is left to drive back to the dealer. And braking too late.

Such a shame. Excellent hardware, an open OS with limitless possibilities and a potentially huge app base out of the box. A recipe for success. Just let me add a couple of closed, buggy apps and make them undocumented. How did this turn from 98% complete, guaranteed success, to 100% complete, oh-my-god? Only violent shifts could cause such a turn.

What you have here is Venus de Milo with a hole in her head.

There will be. It will be empty.

There's going to be QT Mobility, which I have no grasp of, as a user, not do I care to grasp it. I will NOT have any of the 72 bugs marked as Harmattan, It will also NOT have most of the 2636 bugs that are now open, new, unconfirmed. It will NOT contain most of the top 10 brainstorms. Because all the cool stuff is hard to do.

What feels like a slap is that some people come an implement this between dinner and TV, for free. Like Alarmed, which, minus some fancy graphics, renders all alarm software, ever, obsolete. Like StorageUsage, that renders all storage info, ever, obsolete. The list is extensive.

It will NOT contain sources or clear instructions on how to handle events, or API calls that allows a developer to bypass or replace broken functionality.

It WILL contain inane, easy to do stuff that people left in. Like forgot a letter, missed a link, a pixel is wrong, MicroB loses a keystroke, add a few menus, make themes incompatible again, fiddle with DBus AGAIN, add a few things that should have been there in October and, if you've been really good, suspend all updates for a month, for good measure, because nothing encourages a person who wants to give a gift than not answering the door for a few weeks.

It MAY contain some real fixes, because nobody is perfect. Hey, maybe now Phone won't eat 500% CPU so I can actually answer on tap, instead of sitting there like an idiot, phone ringing, waiting for 5 seconds for the tap to be registered. You'd think a Phone app that is in the ringing state would kind of be prepared to answer.

I've held high, high hopes for 1.2. My hopes for future fixed is dropping exponentially. I'm closing on "meh" for 1.3.

"Hello, this is your captain speaking. Wind is at 5 kph from the west, the weather is sunny, perfect flight conditions. We thank you for choosing Nokia Airlines and remind you that you are flying our new Boeing 747 Beta".

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

This^ is an example of what we could be doing now to provide a legacy for Maemo the organization and the community.

I am not a programmer nor a commercial developer but it sounds like a "wiki that describes Qt on Maemo in purely a PR1.2/Qt6.2 context so there's no ambiguity" would be dang useful for me eventually.

What attracted me and has kept my interest in Maemo is that I realized that no one knows what I need and how I use my device everyday better than me. I understood early on that I would have to develop my own dang apps or modify the appearance and presentation of information from existing apps so that they work best for me.

With the introduction of the N900 Maemo attracted a lot more people like me. If they haven't already, these folks soon may come to the same realizations as me.

But enough about me. :D

The legacy I am hoping Maemo provides is that it was the first of its kind with regard to this.

However, to do my thing I didn't need to dedicate a machine to a completely different OS than what I was using. I didn't need to learn that new OS, syntax, methods, and features from the ground up, I didn't need to learn what fatalsaint best summarizes here >> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=27

...In order to develop or modify apps that were only being used by me.

What I needed was to learn a simple, easy to set up, and effective way to SSH into my device from my Windows machine. Until a method was first posted here in this forum, I would not have found it (or one for Mac for that matter) in any maemo.org documents.

After that, until I found simple working examples like thp's or Nokia's own by mucking about, I couldn't enjoy the ability of launching my own pages or sites via my own dang shortcut and icon by simply changing strings and renaning files

Earlier I said "eventually". I said that because I find my self doing, and as a result learning, more and more each day because someone planted those seeds.

I followed qole down this rabbit hole and until my N810 & N900 die a natural death I will be doing my best to make it easier for others to follow me.

Imagine if just a small percentage of the members enthusiastically contributing to the 1000 + posts in this thread >> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39565

...simply because they now know how to connect to all of their devices directories and edit files from whatever desktop OS they use... imagine if they continued down that rabbit hole.

I'm bettin' that most are more talented, younger, and even better looking than me and once in, would be motivated to provide even more information to even more enthusiastic potential developers.

Information like Flandry mentions will be needed by them.
More seeds also need to be planted by people like us. Much broader information still needs to be provided.

Now eventually they may come to the same conclusions that you all have but, wouldn't you now have more voices?

Wouldn't maemo.org then be providing MeeGo with more engaged users once they eventually decide to upgrade?

As long as Nokia keeps funding maemo.org they haven't abandoned Maemo. As long as we continue to work with maemo.org we haven't either. :)

maemo.org's value to MeeGo is the amount of engaged users it eventually provides.

Maemo's legacy could simply be that it opened the door to actualy controlling our mobile worlds.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

I came to similar conclusions for my own needs but you can do this from nearly any current smartphone. Aim is to do everything on the n900 though, to differentiate it as a product. It is its raison d'être.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

I wish they used a different numbering scheme too. Say ’MeeGo R1’ (as in first release), or the ubuntu style 10.05, or alphabetical (considering completeness and general polish, Aardwark comes to mind :) ). In any case, 1.0 means something different to me.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

I am assuming there's only one "Developers, Developers, Developers" monkey boy.

So, what decade was that?

http://www.prelovac.com/vladimir/wp-...ft_revenue.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4034/...c43b17f1_o.png

Every year the last ten years they have had a higher revenue than the best year before the last ten years. By far.

Also, the last quarter 2009 was their best so far: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i...ue+1985+-+2010

Edit: more on track, here's another graph, this time for Nokia. http://www2.wolframalpha.com/Calcula...14&w=496&h=185

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i...ue+1985+-+2010

Notice the similarity: this would be the world market crisis more than specific for these companies, I would wager. And yet, a quite clear dip for Nokia.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

More steps:

The process for handling MeeGo requirements is now open. Sami explains the details at http://meego.com/community/blogs/sam...o-requirements

Basically, http://bugs.meego.com is used as the tool for proposing features and manage requirements. There is now a new classification "MeeGo Features" where new proposals must be filed.

There are already more that 240 features submitted, most of them targetting the MeeGo 1.1 release: http://bit.ly/d8lBCL

The requirements process is managed in combination with the roadmapping process: http://meego.com/developers/meego-roadmap

In Maemo we never achieved this level of open planning. There were attempts through bugs.maemo.org and then the maemo.org Brainstorm. The conclusion was that this process can only work if it's pushed directly by the real product managers, and this is how it works in MeeGo. It was also quite clear that a majority of people involved in the real work preferred the well known Bugzilla over yet another tool.

Please watch, vote and comment to the feature requests that matter you most. You are also invited to submit new proposals.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

In other areas of MeeGo Bugzilla, voting is accomplished via a inconspicuous link next to "Importance"; however, I cannot locate the voting link there, or anywhere, on these enhancement requests. Would someone please point to where I can vote? Thank you!

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

Er... good point. Looks like a bug since voting on features was considered a good feature. :) This Features classification has permissions tweaked so not just anybody can change status from NEW to ASSIGNED (with the risk of putting 20 paid developers automatically to work) ;) or vice versa. Perhaps that's why.

If you don't file the bug now I will do it in the evening. Thanks!

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

I filed a bug against that :)

http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3256

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

Done. Please see bug 3257, "Voting not enabled within MeeGo Features classification". Voting is enabled on it at least.

I'm looking forward to voting on features soon.

EDIT:

Ha! I've now resolved my bug above as a duplicate. Thanks!

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

The past 10 years, you know, the one where they got nailed to the wall for abusing a monopoly, releasing the failure that was Vista, and burning billions to force their way into the console business.

All of that was propped up by their OS monopoly and Office licensing. I'm not defending Nokia here, but Microsoft hasn't had a good decade unless you like a lack of ethics in your corporations and competence in your leadership.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

NOKIA should invest a lot more to strengthen the community (bugfixing or bring instead the new OS version officially to their devices when there is not enought manpower for the fixing of the old Bugs (we understand, double work)) and not to scare the userbase away by abandoning their bought devices only to earn more money by selling mostly identical hardware with improved software. This is not helpful!

Many N900 owners are at the moment very unsatisfied. Look at eBay! It's a great indicator. They are leaving the subsiding cruise liner. And this are not the new MeeGo customers. Not in the next few years...

My advice:
Make the Software independent. The people who wants improved Hardware (speed, camera, multitouch) has to buy a new device. And they will! The others got the fixes and Nokia can keep back new features only for new devices or sell it at the ovi store. (something similar does Apple with a lot of success)
The freaks purchase the new devices as soon as they arrive. The average acquire a new device every 2 years with a new contract. You can't attract them with a new device every 6 month only with bugfixing.

And I'm sure, then the userbase will grow strong. At the beginning mostly linux freaks... but this are the developers of tomorrow. With a pleased community the positiv sentiment will spread itself all over the internet (blogs, chats, icq, forum, wikis and at least the old print media) and Nokia could get a self marketing device for the mass market. (look again at Apple)

It's very Important: Implementing of missing features and Bug fixing has to be done. NOKIA needs customers which speaks after 2 years about it as "great device, the best I ever had". But when they say instead: "same software problems since the beginning, not well done" they wouldn't buy the next device. If Nokia gets rid of all unfinished feeling with the software during the device lifetime the users have at the end of this time a positive feeling. They majority has the problems in the beginning forgotten and go to buy the next, new Device. Otherwise I would say rather not.
It's very easy: Happy Customer are loyal Customer!

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

Way, way, way, off topic but did you happen to have lunch @ Rocco's in Malvern, PA today and end up talking with a grungy looking old dude because we both happened to have N900's and we were actually using them as we dined?

(I appologize for this Tourette's like, OT blurt of mine. It was shared with you all here because this was my first serendipitous meeting with a fellow Maemo enthusiast and it reinforced my notion that for some, the experience may be just beginning. At the very least, we are not alone. :) )

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

No, sorry, but I ate lunch at home with my family today, far from Malvern. The only old, grungy guy around was me. Maybe another time.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

This is Maemo community first of all, and thread name has "maemo" but not "meego" in it. so why are you trying to advertise meego and try to get people to help Nokia to do their jobs, while they can't handle maemo, even left it dying, when it wasn't near to be finished. You always talking about work and progress and all posotove stuff, but it's not releated and it only sounds great - when for real it's pointless. Sorry mna, but real it's of the limits, when it pop-ups in Maemo missteps thread, where people are really angry, and it would make sense maybe if meego was official supported on N900 - but it's not, so i think most users here care to have fully working and not buggy maemo os with functional OVI store (you can find thread about money issues) and maybe than they would like to hack meego on n900 as alternative os. with all respect, but try to help here out with maemo in the first place

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

I sure hope you're right, but this thread, along with others, give me the feeling it's too late for Maemo. Nokia's plowing forward and the best we can hope for Maemo is a few moments silence.

I feel like tugging on a rope tied to a aircraft carrier. It's just silly. Decision's been made. Maemo is dead, MeeGo is the future, and the future doesn't include us unless we fork over more dough. For how long we'll be in that future remains to be seen. Because the OS is everchanging and new versions have allergies to previous hardware.

Hey, it would be moving even faster if it weren't for those pesky users. By now Nokia could have made even more announcements, have organized even more launch parties, projected even more PowerPoint presentations and published more official looking documents with schematics and big words.

Because that's what you get when you steer a company with a guy holding a book. Textbook maneuvers, meetings, sterile marketing, official communiques, internal decisions with an up yours stamp, graphs, charts, more meetings to determine why the textbook maneuver didn't match answer b) in the damned book.

It's not final, there's always *someone* around to give us hope until the very last minute, before the decision is final and public and it's way too late to complain because 1.0 rolls out tomorrow. It's a nice strategy, if the final decision is official the day of the launch, there's no point in complaining, it's done all you do is look like a spoiled brat.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

This is a thread on Nokia's missteps on Maemo, not about your "bright new Meego future". And why should people believe that Nokia won't keep half-assing things and leaving customers in the dust?

It already seems from the rpm vs. deb discussion that Meego 1 will be incompatible with Meego 2, aren't you marching on with treating customers as suckers?

I'm not planning to be fooled again by the Maemo/Meego division of Nokia.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

I'm talking about MeeGo here because most of you own N900s and the MeeGo project has something for you.

Also because developers will move to MeeGo at some point, but there are good chances that their MeeGo apps can be compiled and packaged easily for Maemo 5.

But mainly because I thought that information would be interesting in this thread. No worries, a better thread will be found for the next MeeGo updates relevant to the Maemo community.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

what exactly meego project has for us? not fully supported os, that community has to break their heads how to optify and make it happen on N900.

As well as developers Nokia developers moved to Meego too early from maemo, and you just expect developers like frals and other great contributors that made apps that should be on maemo from the begging to move to develop for meego, so it would have more apps. but it's not working like that, you can't expect people developing for free, and i don't really mean money, i mean getting back support of company and contribution and help of company, that's the way if company using opensource. and even in life you get something (even trust) only when you give something. But you can't say to maemo users - to help code for meego so maybe they would get their own apps back for maemo, or other apps of meego for maemo (we all saw in nokia videos shazam on n900 and other stuff that is ready, and we still didn't get it, so should we believe any word?)

And yes we want info, but for now we would prefer maemo info, at list what is going with all bugs, why all of them are marked as WONTFIX and what about bugs we mentioned before, and applications, what about next updates, what to expect? what about issue with money on OVI store? what about sms paying issue with no user agreement in myNokia subscription and unsubscription? we expect you and would like you to talk here, don't get it wrong, but we want you to talk on issue.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

In short, to summarize it for Quim, the users do not want support for an operating system that has not been released yet, on the hardware that has not been released yet. They want support for the system last released by Maemo Devices, on the hardware last released by Maemo Devices.

And that support has been sorely lacking. The current Maemo5 on N900 is still having a bunch of serious issues that would normally grant an ASAP response from the manufacturer. Instead of addressing these issues, Maemo Devices (represented by Quim here) is suggesting that we forget about Maemo5 and concentrate on the next pink elephant at the horizon. Sorry, Quim, but we cannot. Neither developers, nor the users. It simply does not work this way.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

That's a pretty broad paintbrush to apply to such a small market to begin with.

What I mean is that the question about Nokia's motivation may not be a good expense of energy finding or proposing a solution for at this point.

Of course the software is not finished and that is the point of Open Source... nothing is ever finished and can always improve.

That is also the problem some are having with Maemo.

Maemo the concept was not finished and Nokia exec's who spoke about Maemo in the past always said so. But Nokia on the whole only spent about as much energy making that known as they would regarding any of their other products. I would imagine sometimes companies allocate resources in part based on the percentage of sales, actual and forecast, at the time a decision to do so is made.

Unfortunately Maemo sales were so small at that time I could also imagine that the amount of individual, line item resources required rarely added up to one man and as a result many of Maemo's departmental functions that would normally have individual department heads were perhaps managed by only one individual or managed by individuals who had other, not related responsibilities.

What Nokia did do right in this regard was spend a very large percentage of whatever promotional resources it had on this "internet" thing you speak of.

Some of it worked well... this forum for example.

The blogger appreciation bit not so well.

On the surface the negative noise only seem to come by way of this forum.
And on the other hand, because it's not natural to byte the hand that feeds you, naturally most of the Blogger's noise was positive.

The problem was/is there wasn't much noise generated by bloggers to begin with and what there was went away rather quickly. They were "phone" bloggers and they moved back to where the phones and their audience were. There were very few of these appreciated bloggers who even got the concept. They all will eventually and some already have... But initially, perhaps not enough "got it" to make much of a positive difference and what positive difference they did make boomeranged back on maemo.org as a negative because of unrealized, high customer expectations

On this forum there was/is always noise. Some of it negative but more of it positive... and much more noise in general.

That will still be the case simply because as long as the N900 works people will use them and as a result, enthusiasts will some times meet serendipitously like we did today.

In the meeting I described in my previous post, we didn't talk long and his N900 was powered down as the party he was with was on the way out when he noticed mine. I was involved in following a threaded e-mail conversation (which always suck when your eating lunch BTW, no matter what device you use or where you connect. :) ).

However we did ask each other how we liked the N900 and we both responded that it was the best. He asked me what my favorite app was and I of course went off showing him my locally stored pages using MicroB and how they work for me. We exchanged a few questions and answers and if we each had more time, I got the feeling that we two strangers would have talked more Maemo. :)

How he did things or how I did things would have eventually led us here to maemo.org and this forum.

What was most cool about it all and what I didn't realize until I was back on the road was that after my mini demo I brought back that email right where I left off, finished my meal, went to my vehicle and resumed Sygic Maps, also right where I left off.

Since I'm an RF litterbug and qole, qwerty12, and others provided the means, when the radio fired up it was playing what my Media Player never stopped sending it over FM...

As long as this thing works I'll be using it. Any new device would have to dispense little candies or suttin' for me to abandon the N900 before its time.


***


The problem as I see it is how does Nokia or more specifically their Open Source team support the community that it has developed in Maemo until all are ready to migrate out.

How does each individual Maemo community member reconcile seemingly abandoning this community tree house for another community one?

How does maemo.org provide for their needs if they don't, or until they do if Maemo is no longer a line item on Nokia's annuals?

The best answer for all of the above would be that Nokia would continue to support this community at an appropriate level as long as there is a Nokia, Maemo device being used by anybody, anywhere period. -End of report.

The best news I could hear in this regard would be if Nokia structured MeeGo, Maemo, bananas, pears or whatever else may come along under an its own internal Open Source Initiative division like umbrella or somesuch (and for all I know it may already have). This would allow resources to be allocated and justified by the continued success of this controlled community migration.

Talented community members would not be abandoning a community because I believe that if they do get involved with MeeGo they will be learning much more quickly through everyones MeeGo code and will naturally generalize it. Because of this generalization they will now be more able to overcome or will better understand any obstacles that they couldn't see a way around in Maemo previously.

The thing about initiatives and enthusiasm is that every one that has it and benefits because of it, always seems to want to share "it" with everyone else. And solutions to even old problems always seems to me to be the best things to share.

@ qwerty12: From what we have all seen of your much appreciated efforts so far, I don't think you have to worry to much about your math skills.

Besides, in my experience no one looks closely at the raw numbers if you accompany them with snazzy graphics.
Since the graphics don't "pop" unless the numbers are there, the math kind of takes care of itself. ;)

If in doubt, fake it 'till you make it dude.
Because IMHO you will definitely make it. :)

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

Do you know that it has something for us, or do you only hope that it has something for us?

Nokia is one of the developers of Meego apps.

You will certainly develop a phone application that is better than the crap that is the phone application on Maemo 5. Will you compile and package it for Maemo 5?

You will have a map application that has a few more features than the map application on Maemo 5 (off line navigation, for one). Will you compile and package it for Maemo 5? It can be done easily.

This is the kind of information that we are looking for about Meego.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

In the spirit of this, could we just for a moment return to the Qt4.7 question ? It is IMHO kind of the biggest tangible good news mentioned in this thread...

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

*shrug* at this point, we might as well go for "vanilla" linux.

Use Gnome & KDE as primary window managers (include gtk and qt) and add-in some front-ends like Canola along with a few other wm like matchbox and lxde to help optimize for the small screen.

*shrug*

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

Okay, "good chances"...

What kind of warranty have we that someone from nokia will compile and package modest, our EMail application? Or a new event logger Database (Bug #7512) with a tool to migrate the existing data?
Or the Ovi Maps? What about the Media Player? The Bluetooth stack? Image application? Task handling at the Calendar? Flash 10.1?

We can't do it! We haven't the source.

Should we hope now for another 9 months and in the end we got: "we want to provide the best user experience to our customers - our new adressbook will only run on the new Maemo6/Meego1.0/Harmattan Device well enought"

There are also good chances to complie MeeGo for N900 and create a UI that works on booth devices. At multitouch and resistive screens without multitouch. (you need it anyway, not everyone want to buy a inaccurate capacitive screen)

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

And this is the kind of information you'll never get from Nokia (I was going to say something stronger but I didn't want to turn this into an ad-hominem argument).

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

I'd really love to.
Now, show me the vanilla kernel that will let me use all of the important features of my n800.....Oh, wait, there isn't one :mad:

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

I meant from a developer perspective, rather than investing all this energy in yet another proprietary standard (*cough* hildon *cough*), that will be killed off...

But you are right, the various incarnations of "vanilla" kernels for use with Gentoo on the n8x0 have all flopped due to Nokia's unwillings to provide the necessary source.

Note: the above may or may not be totally incorrect as I haven't slept in 24 hours and I'm not sure why I am still typing

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

First, Microsoft has a much better brand name now than they did around ten years ago, when hardly anyone managed to write their name without replacing the s in their name with a dollar sign.

Second, they have made more revenue the last then years than any other decade and a half. That is what a business is ment to do, and they can only do that if more people are willing to buy their products inclusive their business ethics.

Under monkey boy, microsoft has turned profit UP which is amazing considering they had almost 100 percent market penetration to start with, and they have released the version of Windows that has received the best reviews of any windows version yet. This is the leadership you are saying is not competent.

So basically we're left with you liking microsoft less this decade.

Considering a total madman is leading microsoft, they are doing really good. For now.

If you want to continue on this subject, feel free to do so in notes or move us to a new thread in offtopic.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

Careful, careful...

Hildon is open. We know this because Nokia has told us so. ;)

And if you candidly suggest otherwise, an alter ego will be along to take you to task for doing so...
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=60
(although recently rethinking one's zealotry is to be commended)

But of course that was a year ago. The flavor this year is to say how MeeGo is open...
http://talk.maemo.org/search.php?searchid=7774343

even though the official Nokia strategy is to keep their UI, apps, ovi, etc., closed:
http://www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/Tec...hite_paper.pdf

Compleeeetely different situation. ;)

Let's see who shows up to beat down the naysayers who dare to think out loud that maybe MeeGo should not get a free pass and who, on the other hand, lets the naysayers follow the "fool me once, shame on you... " rule

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

If you have an issue with me, do me the courtesy of taking it up with me. :)

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

Hildon is fully open.
It's just extensions like HildonTimeZoneChooser that Nokia have elected to keep closed. (It's not part of libhildon so I can't really, technically, say it casts a light on Hildon's openness.)

Hildon Desktop, Hildon Home and Hildon Status Menu are open, but they're not as open as they were in Diablo due to their dependence on closed source components in Fremantle.

Anyway, I'm just repeating myself here. Whilst I'm doing this, Nokia are doing what they do best: Producing closed software and staying silent.

At the end of the day, Hildon isn't the issue. Nokia have a lot of closed source components that fall outside of Hildon.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

Hi,

I don't have an issue with you personally - your post just came up in the search. Maybe I should have used a more recent example, which I tried to acknowledge, would not be yours.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

I know, I know, I've been following this saga for years...

You're right, the key issue is, at the end of the day (year), what's it all good for? who knows, maybe someone will hack it onto the top of MeeGo.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

Maybe part of the problem for Nokia´s Maemo/Meego people is that developing and changing is too fun and there´s no adult around to tell them that they really must settle on a solution and stick to it.

Although I have never worked in software development, then it can not work much different from other product development. There comes a time when you must lock in the basic specs of what you are producing and only refine details, not change the core.

It´s about time that the Maemo/Meego people start sticking with the framework they have, whatever it is, and resort to refining instead of revolutionizing.

We can see it´s not going to happen with Meego 1, so maybe with Meego 2 and beyond this change-revolution can slow down a bit so that independent developers and end users can be attracted, or maybe it´ll be too late.

There´s a lot of burnt fingers after 4 generations of jumping around, I imagine there will be a lot more after the next generation comes out and the game continues.

It is a little ridiculous how Quim comes in and tells people that they should believe in all the great benefits the new device will bring, if we just leave the current customers behind, when at the same time there are hints that the next device after the one they are releasing in 6 months is going to be a repeat of this currently ongoing saga. (All applications for the Meego 2 device will need to be repackaged in rpm instead of the Maemo 1-5 and Meego1 deb)

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

My guess is:
- We bought TrollTech and theirs Qt. What should we do with it now?
- I know! Let's put it on top Symbian to cover legacy solutions.
- And on top of Maemo too! We could market it as unified platform.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

Already talking about MeeGo 2?

People, come on. Users are Homo Sapiens, not Testudinidae. Neither am I of the family Corporatae.

I have no intention nor possibility to live for a few centuries, as a result, I'd like a release and a fix withing my lifetime. I don't care that Maemo/Meego/Symbian/Whatever will grow up to be great. I don't care. Really. That's YOUR problem.

I do not and will not feel good for pumping effort, pain and cash in a platform others will buy. The elephant is in the distance, I want a fix now.

Thank. You.

Nothing is ever finished. If you ever think you will have a final, working, decent OS in any actual timeframe you're all bonkers. It takes decades to finalize a platform, and, even with a head start, it will take years and years.

More heads will not make for faster resolution. It will make for more ideas, more experiments and more alpha, beta and brainstorming being inflicted on people who won't go anywhere because they're bound by device price.

If you wait for a final release, pull up a chair. You'll be a while.

More beta release, please, more feedback into account, a devel, testing and final releases, and PRIORITIZE. Fix things that suck now, implement marketing ideal later.

This is ten times more frustrating as a developer. I develop and manage systems every day. I know how this game works. When I get a report that button doesn't work, do you know what I do? I alt-tab back to the builder I never close, load up the software and start debugging. When it starts working, I call the user to exit the program (or VNC over) and click-a-di-click a .BAT file that synchronizes the binary files.

Minor patches are fixed in 5 minutes if I'm available. Worst case scenario, I'll fix it Monday.

This multi-month business is driving me nuts. How long does it take to do this?

Maemo has the nimbleness of a fossilized elephant. How's that for a misstep?

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

You're soooo right. But it's a bad example. It could be complicated in different details...

In my opinion we should make bet's how long it will take to publish a fix for this: 10468
(a real fix, not remapping keys and hacking at our own devices - a fix for all users to improve their user experience)

I'm sure the responsible programmer will not need as much time as we to fill in such bug report. But simply to discuss this simple thing takes ages... and I'm sure, the corresponding programmes is still not informed.

I know, it's very simple. Our devices works also without the fix. But it's a good example how the ball is rolling at the moment.
Let's bet... 1€ for WONTFIX within 2 months and at Meego 1.1 it is surprisingly working out of the box like in the bug report proposed.

Re: Maemo Missteps, your thoughts?
 

Why complicated?

There's a combo box that allows ONE ITEM. The day before. How about adding a few more? Say, same day. Can't be complicated. If it is, you're doing it wrong. :)