Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

quote from the thread Breaking an NDA? (Theoretical):

See where i'm going here?

If the question to Nokia is, 'how can we get information (or permission) that the device owner does not want to give', then it's going to be tough finding a 'win/win' solution. What Nokia did with MyNokia in PR1.2 seems to me quite similar to pursuing semi-legal ways to go around an NDA.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Well, the Windows user is a bit lost here. Could you clean up reception for me?

a) You say MeeGo is a project hosted by Linux Foundations. How does that matter in the slightest? Hosted by? Who makes the rules and who enforces them? It seems like such a temporary association.

I could ally myself with The International Front for Preventing Murder. What does that prove? That I probably will stick to it until murder is necessary. Has the Linux foundation the ability to force anything? How is this any different?

b) You also say that it's much, much more open that Maemo and more than Android. I ask you: If I can't go through, does it matter how much the door is open? Maemo is more open than Android, but it's still closed enough that little developer head can fit through.

How is having a door you can't go through a little more closed constitute an advantage? That's like saying the jail is better because the bars are further apart.

c) You all said there are no viruses for N900.

Well, that qualifies. I officially declare the count 1.

d) Finally, I propose measures. That is, a developer strike.

No, not that kind of developer strike, what are you? We need apps like water.

I mean that, if possible, viable, etc, a package like notmynokia, community signed with love, be used a dependency for all apps submitted and updated by developers who join the strike.

Since it does nothing else, it should not cause any problems.

The end result of this action would be vaccination. All phones will eventually be protected, leaving the damned virus to die out.

You might point out that my answer to unwanted software is unwanted software. I say:

* a cure is not unwanted
* subscription is possible via button, no functionality will be lost
* you can't ask a bug to please take its pesticide
* the vaccine should have the option of doing nothing
* this is not the first software release to be flagged as malware

Viva la revolucion!

Er, I mean, your thoughts?

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

It matters a LOT! It makes a BIG difference!

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Foundation

How could being more open not better than being less open, even if only partially? And anyway, MeeGo itself will be totally open, not partially. It will be under public control by the Linux Foundation, not a company's control like Android.

Now, MeeGo, as it is installed on any given device, may not be totally OSS due to added stuff like a custom UI (think Sense or MotoBlur on Android), proprietary drivers or certain included software. But overall it's still more open than Android or Maemo.

There aren't. And it does not qualify as a virus at all.

Vaccination is too late for anyone already diseased. The notmynokia package is a good thing, but not for those who already ungraded and were unwillingly registered, IOW most N900 owners.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

I'm not sure that I registered with MyNokia, even though I upgraded to 1.2. I haven't received any messages from MyNokia. I upgraded by flashing. ISTR that the instructions for upgrading that way said to remove the SIM card before flashing. ISTR that I followed those instructions.

Anyway, ~/.cherry_state has a line that suggests that I registered for MyNokia ("accepted=true"). However, when I used the My Nokia app in Settings to unsubscribe, I received an SMS from 21342 that said, "Attempt to unsubscribe has failed. Go to 'My Nokia' in Settings to try again. Visit www.nokia.com/mynokia for more information." What's more, after I log into Ovi, when I visit MyNokia, it wants me to register for MyNokia. It has a form some of my information already filled in, which isn't surprising since I gave that to Ovi a while ago.

In the FAQ for My Nokia, I read that you can unsubscribe by sending "STOP" to 21342. After the failure message, I sent "STOP" to 21342. I haven't received a reply.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

I'm sorry, I scanned both links. I have detected the following differences:

* Maemo is Linux, which is open. Nokia is free to put some closed stuff on it, like drivers and apps, because nothing says it has to be open all the way to the neck. Everyone is free to put closed stuff on it, especially since it's their own device. It did.

* MeeGo is Linux, which is open. Nokia is free to put some closed stuff on it, like drivers and apps, because nothing says it has to be open all the way to the neck. Everyone is free to put closed stuff on it, especially since it's their own device. It might just. Actually, considering the hairy thing labeled as competitive advantage, they will.

Please point out the mistake. Can't see the BIG difference for the user. (if you meant as a matter of principle and openness, I agree, it's a difference).

See bars on prison analogy. I don't care if I have 8 or 9 nails hammered into my head.

Open, closed, open, closed. I'm a user. Talk about hats. The most closed OS ever has replacements for all included apps, included phone, sms, mail, video call, chat, etc. Woe is them. They ended up banning competition for "duplication of features".

Meanwhile, I had the most embarrassing event ever to involve a phone in my life. [rant deleted] I'll skip the details, wrong thread. The advantage of an open system is that you can fix your own darn bug. Can I? No.

The other advantage of openness is that you can read the source, make sure someone doesn't steal your personal info. Can I? No.

It's closed to me.

Having to use closed apps on a free open software is like being in jail in international waters.

[rant deleted]

I don't know why I'm telling you this, you just put a face on my issue. And there's that phone incident thing. That's going on Nokia's permanent record.

That's odd, must be my English. I thought that Nokia and Intel made the project, and it was hosted by TLF. Now I understand that TLF controls it. Yes, well, if they have the ability to force (legally) MeeGo to go all-open, that's another story.

By the sense that it's 9 nails versus 8, I agree. By the sense that my phone doesn't work and nobody can fix it, it is exactly as closed. Nice to see openness is spreading, though.

Care to elaborate? And it's spyware, viruses replicate.

I didn't want it. I didn't know it was there. It was brought onto my device under the pretense of an upgrade. It gathered personal data and sent it home.

Direct me to my mistake.

Vaccination helps reflashers, future upgraders, and sends a message. At the very least, saves further SMS costs for reflashers.

Additionally, when the next upgrade comes, we'll have protection. Even if they change cherry (cherry? why not call it data-mine?), upgrading notmynokia would broadcast the protection to all users faster than the upgrade. It's how virus definitions work.

---------------

And there's the message part.

Does anyone else care? Does anyone else know? I've had devices for the last 15 years or so, I never knew my device called home. I still have trouble believing it.

The bug on Bugzilla has 41 votes.

114 took the time to vote for sending files from FM because they hated using Petrovich.
150 went over there because they wanted OGG out of the box.
260 voted for grouping of contacts.

Six and a half times more users want grouping than to stop having their phone number shipped to a company and its partners.

People either don't know or don't care. If they don't know, we should try informing them best we can. If they don't care, then the time spent typing here could possible be better used.

Are we here just to be outraged together?

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

ndi, the difference is in the management of the core project.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

These two paragraphs appear to be in some confused conflict with each other. The first tries to convince me that Maemo/MeeGo is (will be?) more open than Maemo was and much more open than Android--yet it's closed in pretty much all the same ways and places as Android and Maemo (drivers, mainly, and a bunch of apps). The other tries to convince me that Nokia WAS less than open by sneaking in some closed-source that reported personal information. Hell--even Google at least TELLS you they're reporting personal information before they do it.

You're right. It's a trojan.

Explain to me how Android is effectively any less open than Nokia's implementations of Maemo and MeeGo. Near as I can tell, they both hide source code for drivers and apps in all the most critical places for either community to be able to maintain their own OS and fix bugs themselves, depending on the corporation to release fixes and trusting them not to put something surreptitious like Nokia did into the code.

Maemo isn't the best we've got the in the market as far as open values and freedom. It's openness theater. Worse, Maemo isn't even in the market anymore.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

I did mean as a matter of principle - mostly, not entirely. And anyway, the links were not intended to answer any argument about which OS is most open. Those links were to point out the difference between a company - Google or Nokia for instance - controlling the OS or the public - aka the Linux Foundation - controlling it, managing it. IOW, they were an answer to your question of why does hosting by the Linux Foundation matter and what is different.

You don't code, I take it, so you can't fix bugs. I get it, I don't code either. So why should open systems matter so much to me, why don't I go back to Android and all those apps (leaving aside the fact Maemo/MeeGo is a more powerful, capable OS)?

Think of it like this: can you fix your own car? Maybe, if you have the knowledge. But if your an average person, no, so it's closed to you, the hood is locked.

So...then does it matter if you own the car or lease it? After all, it still operates the same, goes the same places, runs on the same fuel, looks the same as other cars like it whether you own or lease. If it runs the same, does it matter who's managing care of the car?

Well, it matters a LOT. If you lease, you can't change anything, no customizing, you can't fix it yourself and have to get it fixed at certain shops, etc. etc. Basically, the lease company can tell you what to do and charge you for not following instructions or driving too much.

But...if you own that same car, you can change what you want, fix it yourself if you're able, take it where you want if not, drive it all you want, etc. etc.

They have legal authority over MeeGo itself, but not drivers, custom UIs or extra applications manufacturers may include in their MeeGo variants unless those additions are also open-source.

Well, you said it. Viruses replicate, spread, infect. They might contain spyware, they might not. Spyware is not a virus unless it does those things. The cherry bomb is malware, maybe spyware, but not a virus.

No doubt, J.Q. Public is uninformed and unconcerned about this stuff. It's how Google, Double-Click, Facebook and many other companies got rich.

Probably. But work is slow today.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Open is about more than code, it's about governance, philosophy, core values, hardware, carrier lock-ins, who the manufacturer is pandering to, etc., etc.

So, no Android isn't even close to Maemo. :)

It is. By far. It's the only one you don't have to jump through hoops to root and keep rooted. That says a lot. :)

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

And hey: if GeneralAntilles can be objective at this point, ANYbody can. :D

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Actually, I am a 20-year old coder (years coding, not years total). However, I'm a Pascal fan (Delphi) and I primarily code for Windows. The little I dipped into Linux I did solely as to understand how to port network layer.

This gives me some oddball perspective. I am well aware of the advantages of coding for a successful, wide app and developer base, but closed system.

To me, closeness is nothing. I have documentation up my eyeballs. CloseHandle has 4 pages. CloseHandle (handle: DWORD): Boolean;

And for me it is natural to work with closed drivers - I can't nor do I wish to compile the driver myself. In fact, in order to pass WHQL, drivers are signed in binary form.

Still, well documented. I can pass anything from and to a driver at will. Dump calls. Replace layers. Also, all drivers must implement common functions, as required by Microsoft.

As a result, I can open any modem I want, dial, hang up. I can make it so I don't care what hardware is under me, so long as it's supported under Windows.

Such is my view of things, and, as a result, I'm less than excited about openness. It's not bad, and, from what I understand, more needed under Linux since it's a bit less modular. Actually, much less.

E.g., Windows explorer for 2k/XP is about 2000 lines or something to that effect. It's silly. All it does is implement interfaces. Everything else is done by dynamically loaded modules one can replace at will. In XP, the actual window was HTML.

The idea of recompiling a window manager makes my hair stand up. Yes I'm odd.

I get that. However, the analogy is a bit off. It's not the car that's closed in N900. The car is open, it's just that the engine, locking system and windows are closed. And the engine stalls, the locking doesn't always lock and the windows remain open.

I know the car is open. But I don't have issues with the car. The only gripe I have with Maemo this far is that it slows down with uptime, after about 4 days it needs a reboot. Which, compared to other OSs, like Symbian, isn't bad.

I went to bugzilla. Selected platform, the cut out stuff like licensing, documentation. Then took out duplicates, worksforme, moved. 1200 bugs. Here we go. Take out telephony, since it's not actually part of the OS, looking at the bugs. Now select the fremantle versions (5.0), and cut out enhancements, only bugs. 280. Scanning through, I see stuff that shouldn't be in my list, HID mouse, bugs that are likely in drivers like BT disconnects, etc. So, really, I'll guess 150. That's how many bugs Fremantle has. The rest up to 11.000 or whatever the number is now is issues with the closed stuff they wrote. That's 73:1

But if the car is open but all the bugs are in closed systems, do you care, as a user, that the rest of the car is going to be MORE open? Sure, as soon as a wheel breaks, I'll be happy. But windows more that once a week, while the sum of all car issues is one a year. On all car models, summed.

Remember, this is a thread where people complain they have a GPS tracker in they door locking system.

My whole gripe is the fact that nobody has yet written an open engine for may car (they can't). A phone app that natively records, natively speaks, natively switches speakers so I don't need 15 daemons fighting for resources. Hey, one that actually answers when I press green and hangs up on red would be great. The current version can take up to 15 seconds.

That is a misconception on most closed OSs. Might be correct for closed open source projects, like Android, that were meant to be customized through source and source is missing.

But closed OSs are very, very customizable, otherwise they wouldn't have a chance in real competition. Also, there is zero -ZERO- resistance against me from replacing any component or part of Windows should I have the will and time to write it. Some are insanely complex for one human being, but, e.g., I can (and have) replaced the shell, window manager, all apps delivered with it. There are alternatives for all known to man applications. 95% have a free alternative and 90% have a free and open alternative. I haven't swapped Explorer because it's simply that good. I have several file managers installed.

I am aware that I'm not technically fixing a bug by rewriting Notepad. But a) I can replace notepad, can't replace Phone and b) not all users recompile kernels.

I'm probably talking nonsense by now, but the point I'm trying to make is this: Closed OSs don't inherently have the problems Maemo, and Android have now. It's not closeness that's eating N900, it's the docs and developer support.

That's the only good news about MeeGo I've heard this far. Followed with a comfortable distance by the fact that I could run it on N900 and get a few bugs fixed while at it. But the fact that it will be meant for a more powerful platform kind of balances that. I might not want to run it.

I did say virus, as an umbrella term for all malware. The quote, however, was the definition of spyware. And, frankly, it's cherry picking (ha, cherry!). No viruses on our platform also means no malware, worms, spyware, PUS, backdoors, trojans, viruses, etc.

Nope. Google got me:
* free email,
* free online storage,
* decent security
* Maps I use
* Earth I very much like,
* Sketchup I used to design my house,
* always has beta features,
* Image search (anti-scraper techniques pushed me to Bing),
* News,
* Code,
* Translate,
* Free POP access,
* Picasa (storage only),
* Chat,
* audio link for free,
* video link for free,
* Latitude,
* 3D Warehouse,
* SideWiki,
* Reader,
* free online office for non-secure work,
* online virus scan,
* online PDF,
* caches pages.

For that list, I'd buy a SIM and give them that number. They saved me tons of money and continue to do so.

Let's look at Nokia's offer:

* OVI, with its unproven security, video resizing, small storage features
* a repository that's technically a requirement for operating a Linux device
* 4 free desktop wallpapers
* 8 free games some of which people curse at, while free. Like backgammon that eats pieces. And that Globe/candle stuff, since we need that kind of applications, we ran out of actually useful ideas.

For that list, they get my eternal scorn.

Don't you think I realize they index my email (G)? I gave them that right when I enabled the spam filter that, by nature, scans emails. So what. Do you think they'll steal my phone number and send me "information"? No. There are laws in place. All they index must be deleted in 6-9 months. So they target ads. What's what AdBlock Plus is for. And Element Hiding Helper.

Facebook says plain and simple in their warning: Warning, everything you post is bloody public.

I am WELL AWARE that things that leave my computer towards the internet are exposed to a risk. You know what? I know that, so everything that leaves my PC is open or encrypted to hell. Things you send through the net is stuff you can afford to lose.

There is a difference between giving away info and stealing it. Nokia stole it. It asked for it when I registered at OVI. I refused. They took it anyway.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Same here - I got an SMS from "Nokia" (contact with no number, and not listed in contacts) saying registration failed.

I was already joined Ovi (bought a couple of games), but I still would have said "No thanks" on the boot-time "you agree whether you agree or not" screen, if the option had been there. After all, even though I joined to Ovi before, I'd never heard of something called "MyNokia" before and want no part of it.

This device routinely uses internet data access - and moreover, it just used it to fetch the firmware update, and Ovi/MyNokia can only be used with data access.

So the explanation which rings most true for the use of SMS rather than IP data for registration that I've heard so far is that they're using it to gather user *mobile phone* registration activity and IMEI/phone numbers, and mobile registration takeup with operator cross sections, for market research.

If true, that would fly in the face of their explanation that it has anything to do with the device not being a phone.

It even seems to be some kind of premium rate SMS, because some people have said they've been charged for it despite having a mobile plan which includes normal SMSs.

I wonder if causing the device to send SMS, secretly with no record of it sent, to inform the handset manufacturer (not the mobile operator) of user's IMEI, phone number, and whether they have a SIM and mobile account in order to get data that is *not normally available to them even when users voluntarily register online and even when users use Ovi/MyNokia services* - well, does that sound like it should even be legal to gather that kind of user-identifiable profiling data when it is unnecessary for the use of the service?

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

You should do some troubleshooting. My N900 is used heavily, has never been flashed and will run for 4 weeks without slowing down at all.

(Snip long list of Google services and fanboisms)
Ok. I admit Googlestuff can be seductive. I use Google search because it works great and I have nothing to hide, I'm not searching for child porn or bomb building instructions. I use Google Voice for business calls because it lets me hide my real phone number and I don't care if they know who I call for business. But I would never ever trust Google Docs, Gmail, GV, etc. to keep private stuff private, safe and secure. Google is not truly 'free'. And for the most part, I'm not willing to pay Google's price.

Ovi everything is pretty much a fail, though i don't care.

Which is why the cherry bomb is so ugly and has me pissed and posting in this thread in the first place. But to think Google or many other companies are less evil about such things strikes me as cherry-picking naivete.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Indeed, just like Highlander: if there is only one left, that will be him :-)

For me, much as I dislike this MyNokia debacle, it is more a matter of form than function, and doesn't compare with the "kill switch" (and potential remote install) as found in Android and i(Phone)OS.

I wouldn't accept that on my Pcs, and not on my mobile devices either.

For example, I am eagerly awaiting the first real-life tests of the upcoming Toshiba smartbook, the Tegra-based AC100, to perhaps replace my Atom netbook. But whatever the praise, I would at least wait until I'm sure it can run a real version of Linux instead of Android.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Such things? What things? Lobbying its host government to change laws to allow better snooping of its employees (Lex Nokia)? Selling wiretapping equipment to Iran, used for monitoring the political opposition? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia#N...bility_to_Iran

Oh! But I bet Nokia is leaving China because of their censorship! Right?

Like others have said, Google at least asks you for your permission. They also don't sell their products or sell out their own principles to "evil" (since that word is so popular here) governments snooping on their citizens, or agree to 15th century demands on censorship. Nokia has taken no stance like this, quite the opposite.

I don't see any reason to think that Nokia is somehow "more good" than any of the other companies mentioned here. Their track record on privacy certainly doesn't prove it. Don't make assumptions on their Dungeons & Dragons alignment just because you happen to like their devices and dislike those of the others.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

That^ is the best Quid pro quo rationale I have ever seen regarding Google. :cool:

The problem that Nokia has in all this is that after a user ante's in their "Quid", what exactly is the "pro quo".

For many it had been hope. I think that is what benny1967 has been articulating in this thread.

Some have "Hoped" that our involvement so far with NIT's would yield a "pro quo" that would benefit us all.

Official responses like this from Nokia not only stomp on that "hope" but indicate that we may have been delusional with regards to this in the past.

Fides, Spes et Caritas...

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

May I just say that many of the 'claims' of whether a company is 'good' or 'evil' are just conjectures.. or 'impressions' at best, without concrete proof of said claims.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Sure, of course they are...threads like this just will never end as the opinions of "well at least they're not as bad as company XXXX" will just set off somebody else. Personally, I'm still pissed at Nokia for the Lex Nokia episode, so that's why I see red whenever I hear somebody claim Nokia cares about people's privacy.

In the end, of course no company is truly "good" or "evil". A person at the helm of a certain company of course might make a decision that ends up being one or the other ("let's not agree to censorship", "let's sell this crap to Iran", etc.) But of course there's no Dr. Evil in real life, just a bunch of companies making silly electronic gadgets that grown-up people can argue about while they should be doing work.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Oh, remote install is already there, and the "kill switch" could be trivially done as a remote install of a package with appropriate conflicts/replaces headers.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Oh, we're stooping to unsubstantiated hearsay here now?

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Yes you may...

In such cases, and what I think the point of this thread may be is:

Action indicates charachter...

I followed benny1967's premise that was illustrated very well in my quote from ndi's recent post.

Whether Google is or ain't is conjecture. What Google has produced though is concrete.

...and likewise.

Whether Nokia is or ain't is also conjecture. Why Nokia hasn't produced up to this point has been conjecture too. However, the impression that they have left by this inaction are made in rapidly setting concrete.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Looking for perfection or holding a corporation to your personal high standards will generally end in disappointment. It's always been about the lesser evil and the most good. Nokia decided to get in bed with FOSS (most good). Maybe they can't **** worth a damn and they stole your wallet on the way out, but for plenty of us [qwerty12 not included] it's been better than blue balls (lesser evil).

Sorry, but car analogies bore me.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

The Reg have picked up the story:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07...a_n900_update/

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Ok, let me rephrase pending verification or refutal: remote install may already be there. Though I find the lack of official response disturbing, something for the council to take up with Nokia perhaps?

You know, I wouldn't have believed this for a second either before the cherry thing came to light. Trust is a very precious thing and quite hard to repair once damaged...

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

"Both N900 owners in uproar"

What a dick. I wonder how many accounts he has at tmo.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Could be.I've seen similar result from other people. Must be some oddball software. Still, I'm not bothered by a reboot on my own terms.

I resent that. Being honest is not fanboism, especially since the following paragraph lists them as scanning my email and tracking my searches. But, it's your view, after all if you didn't dismiss my argument as fanboism (and you didn't) you are free to have whatever opinion you want.

Who is? Well, I am, I have stuff in my email, but for docs voice I use it because I don't really care about most of my documents. I open stuff like shop offers in Excel, read some dolt's .DOC attachment because he can't understand the concept of email, etc.

Will I use Google Docs to open a document that's important? No.

However, this isn't the point. The point is that I KNOW that by using Google Docs I give them the document. The button says "Upload D:\Admin\Document.doc".

I never said that, sorry if it seemed implied. What I said is that I allow Google a higher level of evilness because it helps me in return. I also said that Google asks, Nokia takes. To me, that's a whooper of a difference.

I'd give a dollar to a person I don't even know if they are one dollar short. But try to swipe if from my hand and it's zero-to-personal in 1.2 seconds.

There is no "good" and no "evil" it's just people trying to get points across using mismatched concepts. There is no "good" company.

A company is a group of people hell bent on making profit. That's it, that's the definition. They are all evil. There isn't a scale from -5 evil to +5 good. It's simply an a*sh**e-meter that goes from 0 to 10, with zero being people that think that cost plus a small sum is a good plan for business, and there's 10 where they think that being aggressive pays more.

Many people consider Apple to be evil. They're not, it's just that companies need to exploit assets, otherwise they are lost. Apple exploits a use base that think having better finished devices is better, because it gives them a right to be smug. And they are going to pay twice because they EXPECT to pay twice for "quality". Don't charge them twice and you lost money.

Nokia has buzz and brand name on its side. Everybody loves the next Nokia phone, so they keep releasing, fueling this insane "latest" Nokia war. People with 6months+ models are "old".

Google has immense user base. If you charge 1$ per search, you lose them, You need to charge them 1/100 of a cent each, so they don't feel it. How do you charge everyone without asking their card number? Ads.

Everyone does this. Having a name, a user base, etc are all potential assets, potential money. To get actual money, you need to sell it. Either all at once, or in little pieces.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Give us Flash plugin 10 with Graphical acceleration and fully working port of MeeGo and we will forget about the harm done.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Guilty until proven innocent, then? I'd just as soon not trust the word of some random forum user immediately.

Yes, I, too, would like to see an official statement, though.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Posted before, but I'd like to bring that to your discussion.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Even though it's been reported and backed up by a few people; it'll invariably get overlooked by some folks due to the fact it's still unconfirmed.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

True. However, I find it hard to believe Nokia pushes packages, and if it did, it'd push something else. Not FIFA stuff.

If they did want to push something, they're release 1.2.1 with 2-3 bugs fixed and FIFA and I'd bite like a catfish. Why would Nokia switch to non-lube now?

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

It doesn't exist from Nokia. At least I haven't heard of it.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

If the code (the whole POINT of the rest of that process you've described) is closed, then how do you trust the rest? Isn't that the very BASIS of open-source? Open code is the very CORE of open-source. You don't have open-source by simply saying that your governance and values are open-source... you have to actually open the source code because the rest is suspect without the ability to review the open product's source code and have the opportunity to vette it.

Good God, man! I'll repeat it again: The basis of OPEN-SOURCE is the SOURCE code being OPEN to anyone. There's no open-source just because you SAY you're so very open in every OTHER way.

Not really. It doesn't say a lot when my product becomes orphaned because even the community can't maintain the product. I'd rather root all these new Android phones and stick a community maintained distribution of Android on it than stay stuck with a Nokia device I can't even get a new community maintained OS for.

I'll bet you wouldn't tolerate your computer silently sending out an SMS message on your cellular carrier behind your back--especially if you were paying for it, and especially if you end up getting spammed with unwanted SMS messages later. WHEW... good thing you went with the SO-VERY-OPEN Nokia Maemo platform.

Honestly, given Nokia's slipped in closed-source on the N900, how do you know it doesn't have a silent remote kill and remote install?

Because there's NEVER been any reason to suspect Nokia might do something surreptitious? No proof of something else, sure--but to claim there's no substance to at least be SUSPICIOUS? It's not as if you EVER could trust any closed portions of code--but now there's corroborating evidence to illustrate it--thanks to Nokia, no less.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

An HTML file found in...N900:\usr\share\cherry\terms\eTerms.tar.gz

(continued next post)

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

(continued)

(continued next post...Yeeesh :eek: )

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

(...and finally :rolleyes:)

Is this accessible from the device? I couldn't find it in the on board "user guide" and don't remember if I may have deleted something previously as a waste of space. :)

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

To everyone going on about this "back-door" installer bug:

Of note, all of these people are installing things from extras-dev, which means they probably have some mash-up of beta apps. (Am I the only one that read the warning on the wiki page for how to add the extras-devel repository?) It now looks like a common thread is a beta app named "appdownloader", which just announced a few days ago, and :eek: installs apps! So it appears that app may interact with the standard app manger, causing this odd side-effect.

As for an "official word", it's pretty apparent that the Maemo team has not intentionally coded such functionality in with Andre in the bug for it saying "I haven't seen any similar report or posting before. Better steps are welcome, or a confirmation by a second user." If they had coded such a back-door they would have certainly marked it "WontFix" by now.

Worst case, you don't like the thought of the app manager maybe having some rogue code to push/nuke apps, just un-install the app manager via apt-get. You can always install apps manually via apt-get or dpkg, (or that new app downloader that people are playing with now...) All that is open source, and you won't have to worry about anyone (Nokia, Maemo, Elvis, aliens, or the spirit of John Ritter) triggering a closed source back-door to install or uninstall apps on your device.

And while you're waiting for app manager to uninstall, you can make a little tin-foil hat for your N900 so you can match at parties in your underground bunker... :D

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

It's a large part of it, sure, but it's definitely not the only part, and the world isn't as black and white as you seem to think it is. :)

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

To add to GA's response...


The N900 is still the one, the only... open source mobile computer manufactured by a major "playa".

No one said the phone would be open source. :)

Maemo the OS it's own dang self has always had closed bits and I don't remember seeing an announcement from Nokia saying that this would change in any subsequent versions they released.

Although I recently returned a volley during a recent discusion that may have seemed critical of this fact: The NiT's, and now the N900, have always been able to load alternative OS's.(Proprietary and third party drivers aside. :) ) PB, then qole, Titan and now dj_steve have provided enough information for an advanced user to do just that.


I suspect that for some time to come when a well known blogger or tech site says that they are going to load up the latest build of whatever exciting new mobile OS they claim is out there (With the exception of any iOS... for now :) )., they may actually be loading it on to an N900 to get their first impressions...

But I'm drifting again. :)

The issue brought up by the council is about not having the ability to opt out and has nothing to do with the OS free or otherwise.

Re: [Council] Nokia response to MyNokia subscription in PR1.2
 

Yeeesh indeed!

I only made it through the first post, and skimmed the other two.

I wonder how many under 13 years old can find that before continuing with the update to PR1.2? This reminds me of Arthur Dent's notice of house demolition posted in a locked cabinet with the key missing in the third sub-basement in the town hall. I guess that it doesn't quite rise to Earth's demolition notice posted at Alpha Centauri.