Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I'm not arguing any side.

What I am saying is that MeeGo is a separate and independent entity. I am saying that yes, Nokia can do the same things they've always done using MeeGo as the base, and proprietizing everything on top.. and so can everyone else.

But that in no way limits, de-legitimizes, or affects MeeGo itself. Just Nokia's version of it.

The comment I quoted from you implies Nokia would cripple MeeGo.. that's like saying by Maemo being based on debian packages it cripples debian. That's not the case.

Debian is still alive and well and fine... Nokia's edition of it is ... somewhat lacking.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

And if they do, they're hanging themselves. That will (hopefully) have nothing to do with MeeGo proper.

With hope, MeeGo will be able to move faster than Android as it pulls from numerous other sources, each of which providing far more focus on their part, rather than banking on a single provider for everything except the kernel.

And if you're a hardware vendor? You can say "MeeGo Powered" in an about box and place -your- branding all over instead of Google's. And maybe (just maybe) they could start pressing the US carriers to not demand exclusivity and crippling branding.

Did I say that having the closed bits was OK? No, I said that it's unavoidable in the ARM space, and short of buying an Aava Mobile handset we aren't getting a fully open handset any time soon.

The best we can do is push it out of the core such that the OS is in no way crippled by its exclusion. Unlike, say, the closed bits of Maemo that make it useless without them or the example you cite. If anyone tries to push for that, you blame the handset manufacturer and don't buy their device. I'd rather not toss in the trash all of the work done by the open source community in exchange for a stack that was never meant to be open to begin with, just because it's got a tiny lead.

Believe me, I want an open device, top to bottom. But the way things are, it's a wash so I'll support a push for a handset OS that isn't controlled totally by a single entity and keep hounding hardware companies for open drivers.

Hopefully MeeGo will see adoption by another handset vendor and Nokia's influence won't be felt.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Not sure if this was already discussed (I do not like these monster threads):

There was a report on radio yesterday (marketplace). They talked about the iPhone 4 problems and that the next big competitor is coming. They said something like "... it is Google's new phone, the Droid X". Nowhere did they mention that Motorola (or is it HTC ???) is making the phone.

If Nokia goes Android, they would be just another commodity manufacturer (for better or worse).

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Don't you think that Nokia has the potential to make MeeGo a failure? Will MeeGo proper run anywhere else where that won't be a problem, then?

Considering you're also fighting Nokia's unbelievably source code closed-mindedness and the very likely push-back from carriers, how (please tell!) do you think this will go? Simply saying, "You can put 'MeeGo Powered' on your menu!" isn't a selling point--it needs to mean something that CUSTOMERS want, and the whole "your branding" is silly--anyone can already do that with Android. I've got Verizon apps on my Droid that came with it and it's clearly a Verizon phone. Let's not underestimate things with the carriers and competition, here.

And there's "the thing." I don't have a lot of faith in MeeGo until I see someone else involved. Nokia has been an utter disappointment. If Nokia was a guy, I would have kicked his legs out and repeatedly kicked him in the ribs, for the way they've made me feel as a repeat customer of their crap over the last couple of years. I'm only glad I'm not THAT dependent on their products, despite their attempts through crippling. I wish they'd concentrate on making the products we WANT and supporting their customers.

Good luck to MeeGo. If I had to wager, though, my guess is that it'll fade away to obscurity like a lot of similar attempts (uLinux, we hardly knew ya! Yopi was cute. Maemo.. well, you made a good first impression and then you got really ugly and mean.). heh

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Versus.. what? The continuing downward trend toward failure, like now? If Nokia produced Android phones in addition to MeeGo, they would at least be competing and making sure their brand was relevant. SELL THE CUSTOMERS WHAT THEY WANT. Is that really so hard to understand?

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Considering that Intel is pushing it along with Nokia, I don't see how. At this point anyone can grab it and move forward, doing effectively all the same work they have to do with Android now, minus having to depend on Google to continue development.

Which has no bearing on MeeGo, since they can't retroactively close anything that's part of the OS. If you're talking about hardware, then we can be noisy or pick a manufacturer who will listen.

Which is why exclusivity is bad for consumers.

Hold on. Stop. It's a selling point for the VENDOR to use the OS. The -only- thing the end user cares about is that the device does what it is supposed to, and has a means of installing software.
"MeeGo Powered" just states a level of compatibility.

And they also have to slather it with Google branding. IIRC, Intel's AppUp is serviced by a common back-end, with the front-end brandable by the vendor.

Possibly. I certainly hope not.

uLinux? Do you mean ucLinux, which is still quite popular for embedded applications, aimed more at microcontrollers than PDAs and phones?

It also happened ten years ago. Everything has picked up steam since then.

All I've heard is "Android was there first, it wins, stop bothering. Oh and Nokia sucks." I'm tired of arguing against naysayers and people who conflate Nokia with MeeGo. I'd rather not end up with Google and Apple in control of mobile computing, but if you're OK with that, then by all means.

That's more accurate.

But I don't WANT Android. I'm sure many people who bought the N900 didn't want Android either, or they would have jumped on the DROID or Nexus One.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

And again I'm just popping in for a random thought:

I've seen, from an end user perspective, more Intel than Nokia in everything MeeGo to-date.

Intel's handset platform is the official platform, it actually works(!!!!!!), and has flashable images. On the N900.. we have to build and compile our own.

Intels UI is used on Netbooks.

A rather similar look and feel is used for the official Handset UX.

The Nokia N900 doesn't even have proper backlight controlling with MeeGo without hacking it.

So: While I am positive work has been done by Nokia for MeeGo... as an advanced power-user trying to test out the new stuff: The only stuff I can see... looks like Intel has had the most push into MeeGo.

Looking at what works in the AAVA Intel Handset videos of the current MeeGo vs what works on my N900 is about like looking at the iPhone or Android's phone app compared to the bolted-on-phone app in Maemo. The Nokia N900 in all cases that I can tell is but an afterthought in this process so far.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Why would seeing more Intel than Nokia be a positive thing? It's not like they pushed Moblin.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

That is not how MeeGo is operating. Certain vendors, sure (but didn't we have bastardized Linux distros with TiVo, Archos, etc ?), but that's a different story. 'Cause no matter what Ubuntu does, it can only go so far from Debian without cutting it's umbilical cord, unlike Maemo, which has drifted halfway across the universe from Debian in the same timeframe. MeeGo will try to establish itself as the rock everybody builds on, and that's the best it can do (seriously, it's Free - the make-them-all-use-what-you-say-to-the-letter is Windows Phone 7 land).

'Based on MeeGo' != MeeGo. If it doesn't have the required stuff, you can call it whatever you want, but it's not MeeGo.

I'm telling you that. It is the reason some people are still kicking themselves because they don't know how to call Harmattan without shooting MeeGo in the foot on one side or shooting Harmattan in on the other.

Even if we forego the usual short-sightedness of customers being totally clueless as to what lead times are, production of Android phones IN ADDITION to MeeGo is the silliest idea of them all. MeeGo is the direct competitor of Android, even official Nokia material/people say that. How do you push your platform by shipping devices with the platform you want to capture market share FROM ? It's like saying RedHat should sell Windows Server licenses/services too because customers want that.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

No, that's precisely the way it will be I think, and personally I'd rather not have it any other way.

We have a chance to make our offering compelling enough for people to want to use it *more than* the proprietary offerings - work on that, and let market forces do their work.. :)