Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Intel does whatever it takes to make a profit (witnessing the AMD-Intel lawsuit battles). So as long as Meego helps them make a profit (by pushing Intel related hardware) then Intel will help.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

And THAT is fine by me. THEN, at least, it places the onus on them to compete with a better product--likely that will have been shown to be the more open-source friendlier hardware over the years.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I've been thinking about this - I know, most won't care, the others will label it as whatever is the newest word for not thinking like them, or whatever... I'm just thinking aloud - and Nokia really should come out with an Android phone.

Why? Because the build of the Nokia Android phone would invariably be better than most of the ones out there. I just held a Samsung Captivate in my hands today and I kept thinking... what if Nokia released a 4" AMOLED Android phone? It'd have a better camera, better build, they'd not have to worry about OS support, that would fall to Google.

Nokia makes great products; OS support, not so much. A front camera, a similar but better built form... Nokia could have one or two Android devices that set new standards.

Why not? I can see it happening.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

i think by this time next year, Nokia will have an Android phone. I am still waiting for a Front Facing Camera, before i switch over to Android. I placed with the Vibrant yesterday and man i am liking Android every day that goes by.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

It may, but the fundamental issues we've had with Maemo wouldn't go away. Everyone would still be complaining about a lack of post-purchase support, which is where Nokia falls down.

Many hardware vendors are nervous about just that.

- Google is put in a position of power.
- They want to have some sort of uniqueness in their ecosystem.
- They also want to leverage Qt.

I don't see it happening, especially as long as Google has exclusive control over the OS.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I was talking about Android being alongside their Symbian and MeeGo offerings; not replacing it. I doubt they'd replace MeeGo already - Nokia is fickle, but not that fickle.

Google's going nowhere, Nokia isn't in the same bracket as Google in terms of what they will offer. Nokia loves hardware, Google loves software. Even without Nokia's assistance, Google is already in a position of power; it'll take Microsoft, Yahoo or some yet to be named company to compete with them on those kinds of offerings.

So far, I'm not convinced that their uniqueness is something I want to buy into. Sadly, the stock price reflects that more than the whims of the people that like Nokia's uniqueness.

And besides, if they want unique, create their own UI for Android. Worked wonders for HTC.

Just show how cross-OS viable Qt is... Android port that bad boy.

I don't see it happening either; but they could have a three tiered attack on markets that have forgotten Nokia (North America, Japan) or have been bitten by the Android hype.

I want to make my money back from their gosh darn stock. Steady losing since I purchased it...

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

nokia definitely wants to compete in the mobile services sector(navigation, messaging, sync, etc), not just hardware, so i don't see them being totally OS agnostic enough to use android, which can be heavily dependent on google services without serious customization.

The amount of customization necessary for android to use Qt and integrate nokia services is too steep to forego symbian 4 and meego

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Putting it alongside MeeGo would defeat the purpose of creating MeeGo. Attrition would push users towards the familiar platform, and away from the new one.

The problem is that right now only Google is in a position to decide the course for Android as a platform. Even if they are not going anywhere any time soon, this lets Google dictate where the platform goes. At least with MeeGo it's tied up with so many involved parties that no one player can determine the course of the whole thing, which I think is Nokia's goal with this. They gain the benefits of pushing even more of the core development outside like with Android, without being under the Google umbrella.

Edit:

It just occurred to me. Nokia doesn't want to use Android for the same reason no one else wanted to use Maemo. It was tied to closely to someone perceived as a competitor. And in the mobile information arena, Nokia definitely sees Google's services as competing.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

htc has one of tge biggest reasons I have stsyed away from android. I just dont like their ui layer. Samsung is starting to look more and more like an iphone rip off every day.Then theres samsungs support.

sorry about that. That was towards gerbick.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

And where do they go from there ? Sure, they might get a good quarter or two, but the whole business strategy falls flat on it’s face the very first moment someone puts out something with a decent build or at a significantly cheaper price. Strategies that depend on others doing it wrong are inherently risky.

I strongly disagree. Google supports their services, not your hardware. That’s why (not) getting FroYo or another Android build is such a fuss. The only handset Google supports is the Nexus One. Other than that, you are at the mercy of your vendor/carrier, or, if you’re lucky enough to have a popular handset with a bootloader that is not locked down, to crafty hackers.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

If Nokia buys into the Android platform, its stock price will go up. Why? Because it's perceived as a safe option and no one can argue with that. Nokia has the Symbian-Qt-MeeGo strategy going on now, all looking great on (technical) paper but it's actually still a big question mark for most people outside; especially after the last few boners Nokia has pulled out of its pants.

At the very least Nokia can play to its strengths (hardware) and ride Android's hype; it may even learn a thing or two by keeping their enemies close while Symbian and MeeGo are being simmered to perfection.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

It may go up in the short term as they take the safe route, but in the long term they'll devalue their high end.

Sure, anything new has question marks. But in the end it's all about adoption and how well Nokia can push it. At the very least, they don't have the forward looking statement that Android vendors have to deal with.

Colorful. Very.

Again, if Nokia releases an Android device it will cannibalize any future non-Android path. They can't go that way and still maintain any sort of independence from Google without a lot more effort.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

You're assuming that everything will go 'brilliantly right' at this point for Symbian and MeeGo. Even if they go 'just alright', they have a very tough uphill battle against 3-4 other platforms with a headstart. (Considering S^4 is a reboot).

Let's put a bit more details in that sentence to narrow down the prediction:

"Sure, anything new from Nokia in the smartphone segment..."

That does spin it in a different way, doesn't it? They haven't been shining in that particular area...

Or, it can be Nokia's lifejacket if their current plan goes down in flame.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Imagine a future where Android was the only mobile Linux around (on phones, tablets, netbook, ...). Imagine that it marginalized Apple completely and emerged as the only standard "high end" mobile operating system.

If you are a Linux guy, there is a chance that you wouldn't like this at all. It would be a pyrrhic victory; Linux won, but there is nothing Linux-at-large (desktop, server...) would gain from this, apart from perhaps a few drivers. Unless we start seeing Android seeping to desktop space, so that we could rm -rf everything the Linux userspace community (GNU, X, others) has achieved through these ~20 years and replace it with a Java sandbox written by a company Google bought.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

It's not much of a lifejacket if it has holes in it (customer support).

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

OVI CONTAcTS ON THE N8

http://mynokiablog.com/2010/07/16/vi...g-on-nokia-n8/

I think nokia is really taking things seriosily. I think the next yearwill be really interesting.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I agree/disagree. If I were to go by what level of corporate support currently exists on Maemo 5, then I'd say it would mean more corporate support for a Nokia phone than already exists on Maemo. And after the fiascos surrounding Ovi purchases, whatnot... you could always point to a Nokia phone with a tried, true/proven app store that actually works as people would think. Simply put, if people were going to buy an Android phone, why not let it be a Nokia phone.

MeeGo does not have that level of visibility as Android right now. I have my doubts that Ovi will get things right in the next 4 months or so.

Where I agree; it could create confusion. But Symbian on the N8, and the leaked version of the N9 looking pretty damn similar is confusing enough. And the move to push Symbian from the N-series into other series, and the fact that we've seen the N97, then N900 then N9... erm. Confusion for the casual person is already possible.

MeeGo isn't familiar to anybody at this moment. Symbian^4 seems to be a new direction too.

Maemo was the same. Only MeeGo is different in this aspect. It wasn't a problem then that only Nokia was the driving force behind Maemo - well Nokia and this community - so why would it be a problem if it were another company?

And please don't say that "Google is evil" stuff. Evil would be gas chambers, slavery and forcing people to listen to zydeco on repeat.

See above.

Design by committee has always been a fear of mine... takes longer for effective things to happen, small things can fracture a community - file formats or how to install versus the alternatives.

Different umbrellas, same effect to me. But I see what you're saying though...

Not trying to start a fight... but I always suspected that Nokia just didn't license it to anybody.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Is there a possibility for google use MeeGo in future?

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I think if Google wants to, they could.

The question is, why would they?

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

This indirectly leads to my real question. If Nokia won't use Android - as stated before in order to preserve their "unique" ecosystem and/or environment - then why would any manufacturer use MeeGo?

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

is it not better to have more competion(iOS, android,meego,bada,symbian..etc)?....and whats wrong with not being most popular.... coming in 3rd or 4th?

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

should apple drop osX in favour of windows xp?
the majority has a tendency to be wrong....
I would rather stick with the minority

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Check the "How will meego pull it off" thread. You were there, maybe you don't remember the discussion or maybe you just want to ask the same questions again since it is kind of provocative...

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

It's a problem for other companies, not quite as much for the end user. But the way MeeGo promises to go is much more open for both companies involved and end users, as everyone gets a chance to put in their two bits (good or bad) and overall the whole ecosystem benefits.

It has nothing to do with Google being "evil" and everything to do with what they are as a company. Google bought Android and opened it for the very reasons we see today: it gave them a foothold in a market they could very well have been locked out of. And it ended up giving them a position of power at a level I'd prefer be neutral.

Which is why you need a core team of decision makers who can take in the external input and make a hard decision. The kernel itself is effectively "design by committee" but makes huge strides each release, and is where I would like MeeGo to head.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Thought this is different to Symbian in a sense that there is another big company behind this all and they got quite a different mindset for MeeGo than Nokia that IMO makes it more welcoming.

That said i'm very sceptical in the handset space of any big manufacturer going mainly for MeeGo other than Nokia. LG might make something to MeeGo but as a brand i don't think they got too much to offer. MeeGo could offer right place for some new manufacturers, but lets not even go there now.

There is some real interest on tablet and netbooks where we already got other manufacturers that are truly going to make hardware for MeeGo.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I remember that thread well. I don't recall receiving much of a response that settled my curiosity. Beside, in this thread, conversation seems to be more free-flowing than there... just my opinion.

Regardless, there's nothing more to my inquiry than curiosity. Nothing more, nothing less. And definitely nothing provocative.

Some people just are more vocal in much more interesting ways than others... I enjoy this thread (and that one too).

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Because MeeGo is effectively a neutral party. It is not controlled solely by a single entity that has a vested interest in displacing your services in favor of theirs, and does not create a dependency on an entity that might choose (however unlikely) to cease development at some point in the future.

That's huge from a risk mitigation and forward looking standpoint. It's the very same thing drawing companies to the Linux kernel.

If you want vendors that provide MeeGo alongside Android, look at any handset vendor currently offering Android. They want market but, like Samsung and Motorola, they want to provide services as well (since hardware isn't really that special.)

That said, I don't see myself buying Motorola anything if their current attitude towards the Droid X is any indication. :mad:

Now, what does this mean for end-users? Very little, just like it does now. So long as the user experience delivered on handsets is good and there is a critical mass of both "App Store" developers and end-users, it'll grow. The only things that are up in the air right now are if uptake will happen (if you build it, they will come) and if those who do pick it up will force us to root/jailbreak our device or let us install a "rootsh" package and be done with it.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Android is not concise IMO, I do preffer Maemo... only thing Android is better is that it's almost Java to programming, it has better style in UI (I mean only colors and shapes, I preffer Maemo's UI better in terms of organizations and stuff) and it has more apps/users.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I personally buy into the neutrality of MeeGo. Will the masses?

I don't see it as much as forward thinking as much as a natural progression given how badly Maemo was handled when it should have been handled differently and better. Nokia dragged it down.

And that's why I dislike Nokia's lust for newer, faster hardware constantly. Hardware normally isn't that special - it shouldn't be. It's just the vessel that brings the experience; enhance it via services and make those a part of our life. Sure, a fast CPU is needed, but without the proper OS, without the proper services... you're just sitting on top of a really fast brick.

Locked down kernel? Or the whole eFuse thing? I thought all OMAP3 processors (SOC) came with that? If so... it's in the N900 too. Just not used.

I just don't see how MeeGo will attract folks. Samsung went that route because of Bada not being ready yet. Motorola went that route because... well, they were basically dead in the water. LG is going that way because they really don't have an OS. So what am I missing? I don't see who would want MeeGo outside of Nokia and LG on a handset.

But on a tablet... total different story.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Nokia has proven with Maemo they know how to create a great ergonomical UI.
The UI has an unseen logic to it.
Smooth to the brain.

To an extent I wouldn't care if Nokia was to apply the Maemo user interface over Android to unleash the app store for the I need a new app every day crowd.

-IF it wasn't for Googles goals of "kinda in your face mobile advertisement" (Jonathan R, Google some manager: http://seekingalpha.com/article/2147...ipt?part=qanda )
-IF it wasn't that we do not need and want Google monitoring software on our pocket computer (that is hand holding for dumb smart phone users that don't know what is, let alone ever read an EULA)
http://gizmodo.com/5572510/google-re...curity-reasons


That said , Nokia might be working to give Meamo an Android paint because of their partner Intel telling them to bet on a proven concept that works to get quick cash today.
Our main concern should be telling Nokia not to immitate Android.

As Google says it: the most popular software is the browser. Am I alone not to need their "extra's" ?

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I think that Nokia should use the Android wave to boost the profile of Meego. Start a rumour of a handset with Android then launch it with Meego, assuming its a fully polished version, and isn't going to backfire.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Well, if Nokia can deliver an experience that equals or surpasses Android, then it's likely. If even one other handset vendor picks up on it, then who knows.

True. But I was speaking of that as an advantage, possibly one that draws in other handset vendors.

That's just the way of the industry. We went from ARMv6 to ARMv7 all over in less than a year.

Locked down kernel. If anything using eFuse to disable the phone is simply a sad use of what appears to be an otherwise interesting technology.

Bada would simply have further segmented the market, and it's not ideal for a high end handset. It'll be competing with S60 almost exclusively.

Anyone who wants an OS that is backed by a neutral party. On top of that, internally developing any OS is expensive and puts you way beyond your scope.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I just don't see how anybody can really claim that Meego is backed by a "neutral party". It's backed by Nokia and Intel, what is so neutral about that? Meego is Nokia and Intel's baby, Android is Google's. Yes, yes, Linux Foundation this and that -- is the Linux foundation employing the developers any more than the Open Handset Allience is for Android? Imagining Meego as some champion of freedom is just silly nonsense. It's all about the companies behind the associations, those who employ the developers. Maybe you prefer Nokia to Google but it's hardly "neutral".

Also, OPK is apparently finally on his way out of Nokia (WSJ reported, just saw the news on Finnish sites, google yourself), and Nokia has been interviewing at least some American CEOs for the job. If they pick an American for the job and decide to concentrate on the US market, which that would seem to imply, it's not too far-fetched to see Android phones from Nokia sometime pretty soon or other very large re-arrangements, maybe a Windows phone with Microsoft. Just stick the Ovi stuff on Android/Windows and roll with it while desperately trying to build up Symbian4/Meego, if they decide to keep both. A new CEO simply cannot avoid making big changes. Since S60 is already on its way down to featurephones it doesn't really leave a lot of options for the short-term. Meego's not ready for phones and even if they manage to push out another beta device before the end of the year, it probably won't really be ready for challenging the competition much sooner than Symbian4.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Ah yes.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.

Yeah, I don't think that would go over very well at all. Especially when they go to look at what it can do and whether you can find the same type of useful apps (Yelp, Facebook, Sky Maps, Google Goggles, Google Navigation, etc.)

I mean.. heh.. Ovi Maps isn't going to knock their socks off.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I just wanted to take the time to say a very public thanks to wmarone for sharing his views in a very clear, open manner with me. I don't think we oppose each other as much as we just have different views and you've always spoken your side without having to dive into "you're a troll" or other silly rhetoric - which is rather easy to fall into.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Obviously SOMEONE has to back it, and it's Nokia's and Intel's job to kickstart. The fully open phase can start only once the foundations are set up and people see something enticing, and then they can really embark on infiltrating the MeeGo pyramid. That's when it will, at least in theory, become truly neutral and set off to conquer the world. The Linux Foundation and all that stuff is there to minimize the fears of rug-pulling - Google is way more instrumental in Android/OHA. That's the idea, anyway, we'll see how things turn out :)

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Don't ask what the community can do for you.
Ask what you can do for the community.

Then, you'll understand.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

You don't have to sign your firstborn to Google.
Just take the code and put it on your hardware.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I don't think your even required to use Google's services. I think the problem with Cyanogen was they were re-destributing ROMS with Google's services already baked in.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

It is as neutral as it can be. No code allowed unless it's upstream (and upstream isn't controlled by Nokia or Intel) etc.

Choosing a new CEO, switching to Android, developing apps that run on Dalvik, hiring / training the people to do the actual coding (or transferring Qt to Android), developing new phones from the scratch (I doubt they can just decide to switch OS on a work-in-progress phone...), train all QA, support, sales, ... , marketing people for the new platform, etc. etc. etc. before Symbian 4 is ready for devices? :rolleyes:

If Nokia decides now to produce one flagship Android device it's probably released about the same time Symbian^7 is ready or something like that :D

+ Switching to Android now would be a total and utter sign of total failure. Android train has already left the station and Nokia didn't want to ride it.

And we all know that MeeGo will be much more awesome than Android :p

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I'm talking about private code branches.
I guess NITdroid folks could tel you some stories about porting Android to new hardware without access to those.