Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

yes first demo phone had no touch screen

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Well essentially whats keeping Nokia from adopting Android is the fact that Nokia wouldn't be able to make money form the software of the devices. On Symbian many people use Nokia services such as ovi store, ovi mail, Ovi Maps, Nokia music and other services. On Android services Nokia makes money from such as ovi Store and Nokia music Nokia would be unable to make from because Google makes money from Android Market, also includes Google Maps with ovi maps, and Amazon mp3's come preloaded. Also much money has been invested into developing MeeGo. So it is really a matter of Nokia wanting to make money from software services.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

read this and the comments then get back to me
http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/...py-camper.html

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Eh, Torvalds likes it. So what.

I prefer not being kept in a nice, shiny Java sandbox away from the hardware I own. I mean, it's GREAT if you're Google, because then you have total control over the direction the platform takes.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

TiVo is+Linux in that case.

Connotation vs dennotation.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

thats nice but unless your gonna port them all your argument is void and android has 70,000 so......

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

its can run Debian since the g1 years

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I think it is time Nokia jumps on the Android bandwagon. Java is a very common tool used for developing mobile applications that is why it is used. Besides while Android does have its limitations it is more open the Symbian, iOs, Windows Phone 7, and Bada os. Besides just because Android isn't full Linux doesn't mean it isn't open. Linux isn't the be all end all of openness. What has crippled Android isn't programing (80,000 apps in Android appstore) but rather manufacturers and carriers imposing restrictions trying to make the platform closed and trying prevent people from uninstalling manufacturer skins and carrier crapware. Also rooting become harder example Motorola Droid x has a locked bootloader and Samsung Captivate prevents sideloading of nonmarket Android apps. So What Google would need to do is try to stop carriers and manufacturers from crippling the platform but that would be almost impossible.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

not really have you ever heard of a little thing called ophone

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Please read this, and then get back to me.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Oh, the China Mobile fork of Android? One of two things will happen: It'll either diverge so much from Android it is no longer compatible, or it will change so little to stick with the Android trunk that it's effectively still under Google control.

No handset developer truly wants to create their own OS, as it's outside their scope. They also don't want to be dependent on an OS vendor who will probably compete with them, or seeks to push their brand via the OS.

MeeGo is very much neutral territory. Android is not, or it is not Android.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I'm still not sold on MeeGo being "neutral" as of yet.

But GM, BMW and quite a few others think so. So I guess there's more research for me to do.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I bet it isn't about neutrality. Big corporations look things in different perspective than *nix fanbois.

Meego probably just suits best to their use cases.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I think the Android is the last option that Nokia is considering. If they fail totally in the smart phone category, who knows? But it's not gonna happen soon.

They have Navteq, they do not want to use Google's maps and navigation. They invested loads on money when purchasing Navteq and have spent more money to developer services suitable for mobile phone use. They have their own app store (sigh...), they do not want to send that money to Android Market. They are trying to pull together a content provider portfolio, like Apple has done.

My guess is that Samsung will try to push their Bada as much as possible and try to get rid of MS and/or Android. Samsung also got stuck with Symbian, but they took a different route. There's no point in using three different platforms, and the future of Samsung seems to be similar to Nokia's - independent.

Bottom line, Android is an unrealistic option to Nokia. Big corporates do not want to use Android. It will used by small players and corporates that are seriously struggling. Too much money is going to other pockets when using Android.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

There is no single platform that can span top-to-bottom hardware and all form factors (some of which stem from software requirements, though). That's a fact. Thus, *some* platform fragmentation is inevitable. We saw already one metaplatform that tried to address this - Java, and it failed miserably, as it was plagued by fragmentation to the level of the original problem it was trying to solve. Now, with Qt, Nokia has the chance to do it right without confining itself to a particular hardware/OS niche.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Bada as a platform is suitable for high-end and low-end phones. Naturally it's two different operating systems.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Bada is interesting in terms it is doing just the reverse MeeGo is doing, while MeeGo is trying to make a unified base that can be fitted with a Qt API (which is in turn universal across other OSes), Samsung is fitting OS-es (or, rather, kernels) INTO their API. Due to this, Nokia's approach has a bit more resource overhead, but on the other hand is easier to maintain and is more universal - as it can easily spread to new OSes (we already have - even if unofficial - Qt for webOS and Android, and a sterling but doomed iOS effort). Plus, as a bonus, it can be retrofitted with very little effort to tens, in not hundreds of millions of existing handsets. As for Bada, the 'low-end' part of the platform has not been released yet, so I can't comment just how well their unified approach works (contrary to Nokia, who have demonstrated Qt working nicely on midrange hardware of 2008).

EDIT: When I say 'not released yet' I mean the new range of low-end spectrum, not the existing, pre-Bada-is-now-cool phones. Also note that Bada is not really aiming for top-tier - the Galaxy stuff is Android, and even on the Bada pages, Bada is positioned more like the OS Samsung wants featurephone users to migrate to - very much the position of Symbian in the Nokia ecosystem. The problem with this is that I don't see the bridge between Android and Bada (the role of Qt in Symbian-MeeGo), and the popularity of Android makes it difficult for Sammy to push Bada into that segment without hurting itself at least on the short term.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

It's true that Bada has been mostly mentioned with low-end phones and cheaper smart phones. I still don't see why they couldn't push Bada to high-end also after they've got their stuff together. I'm pretty sure they would like to. It's true that e.g. Android users that have invested money in the software will have hard time moving to Bada.

Currently the profits from high-end phones are ridiculous, it's not going to be like this forever. Content and services will become more important, and at this point hanging with Google is not that appealing anymore.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

If MeeGo is not neutral then arguably the Linux kernel is not neutral. Currently there are only two heavy investors in it, but they can't unilaterally decide where things go (and certainly, can't bar other companies or individuals from joining.)

You bet. I'm sure they're raring to strike up their own deals for in-car GPS and other services, possibly selling the slots -to- Google.

Neutrality is a big thing when it comes to your use case. If it's all about creating a platform for you to sell services, then a platform like Android gives Google a leg up on that, in addition to riding your brand.

MeeGo, being controlled by the Linux Foundation, is owned by an entity with a vested interest only in your participation.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

So if Nokia takes a sip from the MeeGo fountain, tailors it to one of their device (infuse it with proprietary hw drivers, proprietary UI and a set of proprietary base apps); how would one revert it back to 'open'?

Would it be a simple package removal/substitution?

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Well if Nokia provides the necessary drivers like they do now for the MeeGo preview release (they can be pulled in at image build time) then it's a matter of grabbing whatever community release there is.

Anything that belongs to Nokia is Nokia's, and not part of MeeGo. It'd be more along the lines of wiping your PC clean of the vendor provided install and loading a fresh install of say, Ubuntu.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

My hopes are they'd provide whatever is needed for hardware adaptation to MeeGo Core (+ closed repo like we have in N900 hw adaptation) and then that together with the differentiation (closed apps+UI theming etc) makes out the final product..

In my wet dreams they'd provide a .ks on the emmc on how to remix the OS image ;)

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Are those sufficiently reasonable assumptions though?
That Nokia will appease the community with such gesture?

Or is there a less altruistic motivation that would drive them to do such thing, improving our chance of getting such windfall?

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Well, they are providing the necessary bits -now- to get the graphics going, with luck the next drop will include wifi and cellular support. If they want the N900 to be a reference platform for an ARM MeeGo handset, they need to. It does them no good -not to-.

Handset sales? Getting more people working on the core such that they don't have to?

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Competition is good .. it makes things happen!

did some of you read this?

nothing happens without competition. if everyone is using google (sony ericsson, htc, samsung....) there is no more competition...except apple and microsoft...but... :-)

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Well, the N900 will most likely already be discontinued when the first MeeGo phone is released. My question was for non 'developer' MeeGo handsets in the future and it's sustained 'openness'.

I can't see it affecting sales numbers significantly. Mainstream users has other things higher in their priority.

This is a reasonable assumption from OSS community view.. but have we seen that happening in the NIT iterations before this? How about all those close bits in N900 that's nagging its performance?

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

The only thing that makes the N900 a "developer" phone is, well, nothing. It's a not-quite-consumer-ready phone that appeals to *nix geeks. If Nokia makes the "secure mode" thing a simple switch you can turn off, then there's no issue.

It should be completely transparent to the mainstream user. For Nokia, however, MeeGo is a decrease in developmental expenses that directly reduces costs, at the expense of someone's time to keep the device drivers current with whatever kernel/X release is in MeeGo at the time, and that's not much.

I don't think so, but considering that the entire OS is a downstream assembly from numerous independent projects MeeGo is in a far better position than Maemo ever was.

I have seen more than a few people working on Hildon Desktop and Modest in the past couple months, but the lack of effort in this area can be directly attributed to Nokia's weird behavior towards the community.

We can't do anything about closed bits. Ironically, the only closed bit I can think of that -directly- impacts performance is microB. Everything else is poorly tuned open programs (iirc) doing things at inopportune times.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

any companion can blew things up badly. neutral can become something else in a second if wrong persons paths cross between 2 companies (case Porsche & Volkswagen for example)

but I am betting that MeeGo gives the most and car manufacturers can switch from arm to intel if needed and everything should stay at least almost intact in software front.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

if there had not been a 1ghz nexus one and such there would be no 1ghz iphone4g because apple would have only made the phone slightly better than the previous model so competition is good for everyone and all those companies you listed are in competition with each other adding there own differentiations to android but since android 2.1 its easier to upgrade custom builds to newer version build so fragmentation issues are now null

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Did you say ODROID?

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Needs more buttons. More buttons.

Actually that wouldn't be a bad platform for MeeGo development, provided they supplied X drivers for the SGX.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Wait...did you just say "MeeGo gaming platform?" I dunno.. almost sounded like you said "MeeGo gaming platform."

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

I meant the N900 is now the designated (developer) reference platform for MeeGo which probably won't be on sale anymore when MeeGo 1.0 devices get official release. I think that's what makes the N900 a 'developer' phone in my previous remark.

Will the switch also make it simple to replace the proprietary components? (Customization layer, etc)

Hmm not sure how this relate to 'increasing sales'. If you meant increasing margin/bottomline, then I'd say that the saving in software developing cost is miniscule compared to other costs involved here (hardware design & manufacturing, marketing costs). Especially compared to their already was ongoing maemo efforts.

It's nice to know that, but I've yet to see any significant changes in policy/stance by Nokia to go against their core 'planned obsolescence' strategy. In this case, it's safe to say that their track record and lack of motivation to do otherwise trumps a 'technical possibility'.

Ok, I meant 'performance' in a more general sense. The way it affects user' perception and experience toward the N900 and how it in turns affects the N900 market performance...

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

no android

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Well, my assumption is the switch deactivates the DRM features, at which point you can stick with Nokia's stuff or move to a community build, where the proprietary stuff should be replaced.

It's all about the bottom line. By offloading much of the OS development that is rather out of scope for Nokia, they can hopefully work on making the user experience better, which they desperately need.

Planned obsolescence is basically standard fare for the industry these days, so Nokia is not special here. That said, if they step up and provide proper SGX libraries whenever X gets updated and help keep the kernel current, that's more than most other vendors care to ever do.

All we can do is wait and see, however.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Yeah. Right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

did you understand the wiki article you posted?

besides everyone using android would mean far greater risk of cartel....

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Gosh.
Do I really have to put it in layman's terms?

Not everything looking like free market and competition is one.
Simply introducing new players to the market does not necessary leads to improvements. There is no free meal. In this case you are for sure introducing ie. fragmentation. And the possible advantages might be simply gamed off by big players of the market.

Now, did you understand the wiki article I posted? ;)

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

Just nitpicking, but due to the silly naming convention, there will actually not be a single MeeGo 1.0 device ever released.

Re: Topic of the Day: Should Nokia Drop Meego and roll with Android?
 

If you want to look at something that at least has the appearance of being a cartel, look at US cellphone providers and how closely matched all of their service plans are.

Or are you suggesting that Google will collude with the Linux Foundation to fix prices... on what, exactly?