Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

You sorta went wide left with your description and landed from handsets - which... I agree is an odd beast to pin down in the US - to carrier issues - the fact that users pay for incoming calls isn't what Nokia has to deal with.

So... with Nokia now at about 8.1%, perhaps the US is the second lost market, the first being Japan.

And agreed. The USA market is noisy. Perhaps Nokia just should give up on it 100% and go all online orders only.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

Nokia has many issues in the USA:

- Handsets: Nokia handsets are now what US geeks/bloggers like; and hence, what the public knows about. I suspect some Not Invented Here syndrome as well. And we already know how hard has been for Nokia to adapt. Very, very roughly, phones like the iPhone have taught the user to prefer form over function. In countries like mine, people want the more function they can afford for their money.

- Carriers: If they don't perceive value; they aren't going to subsidize the handset. Or worse, they are going to lock and cripple it (E-71x).

- Carrier practices: For more reference, http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...-camera-3.html

Most of the practices detailed there where left behind in Latin America around 1996 at most; except locking handsets; however, you can pay extra to get them unlocked when you buy the handset.

- Carrier technology: How much can Nokia leverage with carriers depending on what they buy. On Wednesday I was visiting one of our carriers and I was shown the softswitch controlling the phones of our entire capital. It was a revealing experience to say the least.

- Marketing: speaks for itself. In countries like mine, the name "Nokia" commands respect in itself and most of the promotion is done by the carriers anyway. However, Nokia is always behind big events, like concerts or sport matches.

It is a steep road up. And I don't think the climb is profitable. But the noise is starting to become, well, noisier.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

I agree as well,
they need to understand and know facts before they debate multi bilion dollar corporations products with their little to no knowledge narrow points,
Nokia invested over 40 billion in research for their phones in the this decade,a fact.......

Their seems to be this blind fanatism of ''iphone'' It captures the avreage people's intrest at first but in a way I think people are too blind to see what is put on the table in the long run
I really don't care what the majority believes anymore

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

ll add my 2 cents.

Asia

Nokia is huge. everytime i travel to pakistan im drowning in nokia marketting and ad's. owning a nokia is a status statement. almost like owning a mercedes. saying you own a HTC hero or Samsung gets you no where.
this is convincing evidence that nokia knows where their money market is. Asia is still getting used to 2G/3G and touch screen means nothing. people live and use devices for functions not for showing off a new app daily. as an example phones with flash lights are a big hit.

i went bowling with friends and nokias comes with music ad's were plastered all over the floors. and during a trip to a village in the middle of no where i saw a nokia phone being charged between farm animals and a tractor.

that is not to say nokia only has a low market presence. go to lahore and ul see n900 displayed along with every n series device. iphone is non existent. they are available but there is no demand. of course there are good reasons why apple dont invest in asia but for the wider message in this post it reiterates nokia isnt dead and is not disappearing anytime soon.

USA

enough has been said about this already but i will differ in that i dont think nokia is a non contendor. it is a niche brand which when owned earns respect. i went through a security check once and when emptying my pockets the security guard stopped me only to ask what phone i was holding. on saying it was a N70 he wanted to know more about it. this was 2007.

N95-8 had random strangers on the NY subway asking me about the device. having lived in the UK most of my life no one has ever asked me anything. except last week when a most innocent HR woman from my work said on seeing my N900 'is that one of those apple phones'. i frowned and just said its nokia.

that however is not a typical response. most people also dont know that microsoft make phones. does that mean windows phones days are numbered? maybe. but i think not.
The UK market loves nokias. the USA really is alone with all this noise. the bank i work for has 120k employees. everysingle one of them has a nokia. most colleagues have e71's. yes thats not a flagship device but nokia isnt a one poodle company. it has an eco system which apple can only steal a tiny share from.


lost a little direction here but thats how i view nokia today. love it or hate it but it has moved the mobile world forward and to dismiss it is foolish. its a giant that will move slowly but will surely move. it wont stir the phone world every month but it will keep working - it just needs to be shown us in the west just need more loyality from them.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

the thing i find, is that even if nokia dont find the US a profitable market to try and command, because it would cost them a hell of a lot,
most of the media that is shoved in our faces comes from america, so infact they have to win over the americans because its harming thier sales in every country with internet access, that and thier terribly drwn out transitional stage that theyve been in for the last couple of years.
im sick of hearing about iphones but they love them, and everyone sitting here where i live listens to them and thinks its cool to love them too. android fever is starting to kick in big time now as well, but androids not half bad imho haha

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

yep, its noisy, because outside of asia it seems all non-english tech news is translated english tech news. Tech news more often then not written in usa.

reminds me of people in norway talking about miranda rights becase all the crime dramas on tv are US made.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

Living in New York City, the difference between Apple's marketing and Nokia's marketing is stark. Apple, with billboards on every corner, AT&T retail stores, and their own Apple stores (4 in Manhattan now) is pretty much everywhere.

Nokia is the company that sells free flip phones with contracts. Whenever I use my N900, the reaction from people usually starts with a, "I remember my old Nokia. That phone wouldn't break no matter what!"

Nokia has largely ignored the USA market, and maybe for good reason. I am not going to pretend I know more about their business than they do themselves but I still think Nokia has a chance in the American market.

They have the products (N8, E72, E73, N900, 5800, etc). All they need is the marketing and carrier support (Like it or not, that is how more than 90 percent on Americans buy their phones).

Hyundai (and even Kia) have had a big turnaround in America recently with the release of a few excellent cars AND more importantly an aggressive ad campaign. If Nokia wants, they can definitely draw people back to their phones in America.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

If Motorola can do it...

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

No, it really matters. It was stated that his phone received updates after two years. I don't know when he got his device or when the last update was released, but the model isn't two years old. It's more like a year and a half.

So, there's no truth in it having two years worth of support and updates - yet. Two years life cycles are different from a year and a half life cycles are different from a year life cycles. It really matters.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

The problem is, they did it by moving to Android. Samsung are trying to replicate Motorolla's success with Droid by building on Android with the Galaxy brand and have forecast a huge increase in sales over the next financial year. HTC became a major player in the US market through their links with Android. There's a common thread, and Nokia has ruled out that option.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

Thank you for throwing a perfectly working device in the nearest landfill (or having it "recycled" somewhere).
I'm also guilty of this, but at least I try to use my devices for many years.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

I keep my old phones (and computers)as back-up or sell them, I don't throw them away.

Anyway, what's the point in having another Android phone? Diversity is a good thing isn't it? Nokia can still sell good phones and provide a solid platform for us even though it isn't the biggest player in the segment (just like Linux in the desktop, it isn't any worse just because it's got a few percent of the market).

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

Jeez, every 18 months? I tend to hold onto mine for a few years.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

From announcement to today, it's over 24 months. From release to today, it's 20 months. That's more than 18 months and yes... you appear to be splitting hairs.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

Motorola internally had no real scalable smartphone OS. Samsung has Bada - which is still coming. Big difference there.

Motorola had played with the concept of going to Linux - I swear their A1200 Ming was Linux based (don't quote me) but it never got released outside of Asia from my understanding.

Motorola dug their way out of their hole mainly by doing marketing right. The Droid is only an mediocre phone.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

Motorola had a series of Linux based 'smartphones' back then... I've had the E680 and A760, both were utter shite even for the period. They must be ecstatic with the Android after those long periods of failed effort to 'make use of Linux'.

(I didn't know about the Ming, I thought they'd shelf their linux effort after the early craps).

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

Yeah... Ming and even the RAZR V3X and above were supposed to get a new Linux based OS, and it... well they sucked something fierce. I remember the E680, and I remember the nice hole in the wall it made by one of my (then) clients because it would interrupt phone calls at its own leisure.

That... was a funny day.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

yeah... the market is.... funny...

What do you guys make of this:

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...tablet-market/

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

Well, they gave customers what they wanted. I would disagree with your mediocrity statement--the Droid is a GREAT phone, works VERY well as a phone for me. It's a mediocre computer--but even that seems to be getting better with the 3.0 being bandied about. The N900, by contrast, is an excellent little computer but an incredibly poor phone.

Personally, I rather like Android, but then I had rather liked Maemo quite a lot until I had to deal with Nokia for support.

That's the other element that nobody's mentioning, though. Motorola and Verizon (even with their notorious record) provide far superior support of their customers than Nokia ever does. Apple, for all the issues you want to point out, have a physical presence dotted all throughout the country. STORES with actual representatives you can talk to and they answer questions and help you with getting repairs, even if it costs you through the nose to get them repaired. But! At least you GET customer service. Nokia isn't even willing to take our money to provide support.

I know this is veering far from the original topic, but when you compare Nokia to Motorola and how Motorola pulled themselves back up through marketing, keep in mind that Motorola may have also managed to do it by not sacrificing customer support and accessorizing. People want options--even if it costs money.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

few years?!? :D

I barely can wait 12 months if there are better devices available...

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

First impression:

- They didn't have engineering resources to throw at this

- They are trying to downplay others that have the guts to enter this market.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

Bullsh*t PR speak; this guy couldn't be more full of it. The form factor has been compelling since the Flinstones. I wanted a tablet 20 years ago. How Nokia didn't follow the 770 and the n800 with something iPad size is just sad. Instead, some other division released that overpriced Winblows laptop (netbook ?). Lame.

Anyway, like the first commentor said, "Who cares?" A MeeGo or Ubuntu tablet will be where my money eventually goes.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

agree with the first post....
tech journalism today is mostly unprofessional...totally biased,and all about market share, how well they advertise, mass appeal etc etc..dont even appreciate better tech if its not from their favourite cult :(
anyone know some unbiased tech sites/blogs whatever??

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

And how is is relevant how long it takes from the phone is announced to the last firmware release? We're talking about product life cycles here. The 5800 started shipping in select markets, Nov 27th 2008 and reached USA Feb 27th, 2009 and the last firmware appears to be from April 21st, 2010. That means it received it's last firmware [this far] 14 months after it was released in the US. Three additional months after it was first released in Finland. It was released here in the end of February too. And I remember very well that it was impossible to get the first months after release.

If we're to base any discussion about number of months in a firmware release / life cycle, which I believe is what was going on here, it should be somewhat accurate. 17(/14) months is not 24 months. Infact, with such inaccuracies, the discussion is meaningless.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

17/18 months is more than a year. It's longer than the N810 had in terms of updates and support, and it's 3 times longer than the MeeGo announcement after the release of the N900.

So... what I don't get is how relevant that you're splitting 5 or so months out of 24 and calling it a problem. Have fun with that; I tend to round up when it's over 13 months anyway. And as it stands, it's doubtful Nokia will support any Maemo endeavor officially for more than 13 months. It hasn't happened yet. There's nothing inaccurate about that insofar relating to the past.

Regardless... about my "Motorola Droid being a mediocre phone", I'm comparing it to the Droid X (better camera and keyboard imho) and to the Samsung Galaxy S (finally got my hands on one, screen is only second to the iPhone 4)... it's not bad, but it didn't compel me to buy.

Almost did though.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

That is exactly why there is no point in them thinking about Android NOW. How is being a 4th or 5th manufacturer of Android phones in the US going win back significant market share ? I have the feeling they are laying low because they know Symbian^3 and the N8, which, while probably going to do well in "generic markets" won’t be able to fight Nokia back on the US radar. Add to that the US pricing techniques (one of the major points of the N8 is that it’s jack-of-all-trades is going to be good enough for most average smartphone users while costing 1/2-2/3 of the iPhone/Galaxy class devices). The US market (or rather tech blogosphere) at this point, is all about glitz and raw horsepower, and pushing the N8 (or even the N9) would likely not do very well. Device-wise, they need something that will allow them to come back in a tour-de-force (like the N95 in it’s own days), and when they have that (sadly that’s late 2011 at best), marketing will follow. The strategy for brand awareness and mindshare is a completely different matter, and that’s where things appear more worrysome for me, but then again I’m just an armchair analyst :)

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

I think you will find it hard to find anywhere where I called anything a problem.

We were discussing length of life cycles. Those are measured in months. And it was said that the Nokia device 5800 had updates after two years. It was however very inaccurate. A 24 month active life cycle is considerably better than a 13 month active life cycle, and also better than a 18 month active life cycle. I would much like a 24 month active life cycle with firmware updates and bugfixes for my Nokia device - the N900. Frankly, I am not sure we even get a 13 month life cycle.

Of course, we need also discuss the lifecycles of MORE Nokia devices before we find an average to base expectations on.

You brought in 13 months as your "round up" number. If you consider +/- 11 months in expectations of life cycle length splitting hair, then you have really thick hair.

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

you know in the states they change the software and feautures of a phone jsut because they sell in a carrier.You heard about the samsung galaxy s yeah att is removing its front camera because they think iphone should only have it.So no quality over quantity.Would you like if you went to buy a lamborghini and a cardealer was the only exclusive in town with ferraris so they took out the v12 and put a v6? I really dont beleive so, until carriers realize they sell data in a timeperiod and not phone in the states then I will buy with plan

Re: “This isn’t the iPhone. I mean, who cares about Nokia?”
 

"Seriously - how should Nokia be expected to deal with such utter Euro-phobic bias in the US media? : http://bit.ly/cLWg2r"

via twitter

http://static.businessinsider.com/im...ompetition.jpg