Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Yeah but the side effect of that transition is displacing the technical/geek people resulting in them either leaving the community or moving to less-noisy avenues of communication. Though Nokia was already doing a good job at eliminating that group too.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

In summary: Nokia is pissing off the passionate people. The sort that Apple (in all their Bizarro World glory) pleases.

Old lesson still to be learned here. Very fine line between love and hate.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

...you know, I dropped by for the first time in forever after running across the link in my bookmarks, just to see what was up with a device line I used to love. And the first thing that struck me, after reading this? It's just like the 770 days, when Nokia dropped new OS support after a year and a half. Loud complaints and feelings of betrayal from many users, promise of a 'community-supported' release of the new OS, hacked to try and get around closed driver binary blobs and the like. (In the end, I stuck with the last 'official' release instead of the hacked one, at least it was more stable.) Complaints about Nokia taking things for granted, including their customers. Internet Tablet supporters defending their ability to hack/customize the device, the greater capabilities it gave tech geeks, the openness.

For me, at least, that history drives my reaction to this. I was burned by Nokia once. I gave them another chance when I found a N800 on CompUSA liquidation. And that's been it, really. I updated to OS2008, but I passed on the 810 and the 900. And over time, I stopped using my ITs; the only really first-class application I used was fbreader, and superiority as an e-reader didn't compensate for the state of the rest of the software library.

If you've been burned once, you tend to remember that. Now Nokia is apparently going through the same series of events, yet again; will the results be different this time? A lot of people were hopeful and willing to forgive Nokia for its behavior with the 770, but will they this time? How many times will users accept this kind of treatment from Nokia? How long will they be able to continue as a company, if they continue treating users this way?

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

There is a point missed here - MeeGo coming 'no strings attached' and vendors going for whatever they feel is the bast way around going with maps is actually an advantage. Maybe Nokia/Google doesn't have decent coverage of their target area (or limits functionality in that area), maybe they have better data of their own, maybe they just want a Free and completely untainted platform. MeeGo is good in terms that it allows them to make a tailored device WITHOUT making it a take-it-or-leave-it all-in-one approach the Google bundle is.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

I can see your point, but what would be wrong with providing Ovi Maps in vanilla Meego, and then allow the manufacturers to do whatever they want. If they don't want Ovi Maps they can rip it out, not offer one to their consumers, or offer an alternative solution. If they decide not to take it out, manufacturers get the bonus of adding "comes with GPS navigation" to their sales pitch to help them compete with Android devices.

After you have the established foot hold you can then decide no longer to give away Ovi Maps for free or something.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Random fact: there's 12 packages that don't build for ARM in MeeGo Trunk (fails to compile). We've started patching those and most are trivial build errors. So from a build perspective, we're not much different. On image building side (mic2 support) ARM is a equal member as well now.

Short story: because it gets a strong ARM offering in MeeGo which is useful for many various reasons, such as platform adaptation. Who'd want to adapt a platform where the ARM reference device works like crap?

Case: Why are we implementing power saving in our N900 kernel when there's no real benefit to developers in this?

Fact: Because we're making a complete hardware adaptation, not a 'developer only' one. A hardware adaptation has to be full to be stable or not be worth anything. Rest of OS, that's another thing.

I don't try to convince people they're not abandoned, I've given up on that here.

Agreed, this might be a problem, but let's see how we can solve this in a sane manner. To be honest, it should be entirely possible to keep this going. Even at what, 2 man hours a month to check the lights are still on and things are building and getting exported as redistributable bits at repo.meego.com.

Think we're overestimating those few blob's importance. And as I've repeatedly said, I'd like to get rid of them if I could. But as daperl once said:

So, we have them to give a proper user experience. I'm hoping to get them to a redistributable license.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Ok, but building != functionality. I still cannot use Wifi easily :D.


Ok, understandable. The point is, well, take the very original development G1 released at the Google conference or whatever it was. That phone was not a perfect phone, they only gave out a limited number (which include root out of the box) and were meant for, who? Developers!

That is how I see MeeGo for the N900. The problem? That's not real future for users.


To the first: that talks about meego.. I don't suspect meego to disappear, I suspect nokia to disappear (at least in the reference of the N900). Thus, I think Nokia will get to the point that even 2 man hours a month to make sure the image is built for the N900 isn't worth it.

To the second: I agree with you.. but that's why I don't think it's "over" estimating their importance. Right now they are needed.. it would be great if we could get an open source (or even just openly distributable) BME/3D/whatever binary blob to ensure that no matter where Nokia goes: As long as MeeGo is running we can port the latest and greatest to the N900 (within hardware limitations).

Unfortunately, that's still a huge question mark right now.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Don't get me started on connman. Once the caffeine has kicked in, my plan is to debug it and exorcise the damn thing until it does our bidding. Wasted so long time on it's bugs.

For users.. well, ask Nokia. MeeGo can only give what's contributed. But what would you really want on N900?

If you're asking me (I use my N900 daily) as a user, here's what I dream of:

MeeGo on N900 with a proper hardware adaptation (this -always- comes first)

Nokia differentiation packaged on top of it, differentiation that is genuinely useful, accessible if I plug in a IMEI and accept this is not a product and can't call about it, etc. I mean. Nokia has no problem distributing Nokia binaries to Nokia devices.. this hasn't changed.

And community helping to QA these kind of mixes and maintain .ks'es built with these things.

First part: Nokia's still answering questions on phone for OS2008 devices aren't they? I wouldn't underestimate what Nokia will still do. I mean, I'm going to be repackaging BME for N8x0 in RPM ..

To the second part, yes, I agree, that simple kind of commitment would be nice.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Even Nokia's differentiation packages are more than I'm asking. You mention hardware adaptation, I agree that's first.. but just because it works isn't what I'm after.

What I'm hoping to see from MeeGo is an OS that not just works, but is fluid, easy to use, and feels like an end-point product on the N900. This will happen with the next devices that are released *for* MeeGo.. I would like that same level of user-friendliness in the N900 adaptation of MeeGo.

What I expect, however, is a working MeeGo that is somewhat lackluster, maybe a bit stuttery, or lacking in certain features (probably because that feature relies on multi-touch..) Even then I'd accept it.. but I don't think the general user-base would.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Side note: I don't think I'm doing anything tonight.. I'll try and find you on IRC. If there's some way I can help with this I'd gladly do it. I would really like to see internet on MeeGo.. it would actually be somewhat usable at that point ... (well, Internet + a working terminal...)

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

I understand what you're saying, but it doesn't work that way - it would mean this is still thinked about as Nokia's version of Android. MeeGo does/should not include any components that would stain it's vendor neutrality (Qt governance is a hot topic because of exactly that reason) in order to be interesting for other vendors. Those who don't care about that are already in the Android camp and will be hard to turn just by offering a more-of-the-same (i.e. why would they care swapping out Google services for Ovi ones when they have zero benefit/control/influence over either ?). MeeGo gives them options - they can still license Ovi Maps, just as well as Flash and Skype and whatever they please (maybe even at no cost - at this point it's not about money, it's about establishing platform future).

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

I'm on #meego-arm - grab meego-handset-armv5tel-n900-nokia-proprietary-1.0.80.13.20100803.2 and tell me if your networks show up in wifi control panel.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Well I can tell you from the KS build of the image I did from the 20100803 build last night.. they did not.

I will download and try the pre-built image tonight as well. If it still doesn't work I'll let you know, manually get my networking working again and get SSH installed on it, then try and help troubleshooting.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Hey guys... Meego/Harmattan on N900 is still a long way to go, especially Harmattan we have seen nothing of it. So the near-term future of N900 still binds to Maemo 5.

Lots of people think Maemo 5 is abandoned.... yes, I agree to some degree, but atm Maemo 5 is still under development & maintenance. For example, if you look at the hildon-desktop and Modest git, you can figure out what to expect in PR1.3, i.e. better portrait handling for hildon-desktop, better performance and text selection (bug # 10390) for Modest. Besides, there will be full QT Mobility and maybe Qt WRT.

Of course, the usability improvements and the addition of dev tools are probably not what people want in that none of the frequent complaints (portrait support, more app, crappy OVI anything, flash10.1, vsync) are directly solved. But by giving Maemo5 the QT toolkits, even if Maemo5 will never have full portrait support, at least we will have a more usable M5 and more apps are definitely coming with the help of S^3/4 and Meego promoting the proliferation of QT apps.

Of course, Nokia could treat their early adapters nicer by throwing us things like flash10.1 and vsync support to show us their love. But oh well (though I hope after Meego/Harmattan becomes more stable, we'll see community backport to M5...)

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

If you read the context of this thread you will soon realise that Maemo is going to die out soon and yes it is a shame but that is the way the cookie crumbles.

Oh boy i am sure glad i started this thread as a hell of a lot has and will come out for us all to read.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

To be honest, I regret spending 550 euros on this device. I should've bought the iPhone 3GS or Nexus One or waited and gotten the iPhone 4. I don't want to sound like a troll but there is nothing else I can do. This phone has little resale value so giving it up and getting another phone is not an option.

It was my mistake though. I should've tested the device first-hand and investigated more fully before making a decision but I still feel cheated on by Nokia. Its priced at a premium and if you look at it on paper, it sounds amazing. It had all the features I needed but I didn't know they'd be done so badly.

I expected the Maps application to be as usable as those on iPhone and Android. I just assumed it. I expected the E-mail application to be as functional as its iPhone and Android counterparts (or even earlier Nokia phones).

I, for one, don't see a decent future for this device. The flaws will remain for a long time and I don't see anything improving the offering (NITDroid, Meego, etc.)

I know whining here is useless but I have to vent out somewhere! Can someone give me a link to the N900 Forums on Nokia's website?

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

@shanrizvi,
I´m sorry that it doesn't fit for you.

official channels for feedback:
http://conversations.nokia.com/
http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/...ces/bd-p/maemo

btw:
http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2009/11/m...art-of-it.html
http://wiki.maemo.org/What_can_we_re...it_a_phone_.3F

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

It's rumor time again (bash me for spreading it if you want)... so it looks like the next PR release is being prepared and rumor says not too far away.

// Start of rumor

The rumor says the release will include QT4.7 & Meego dual-boot, but doesn't mention any other major feature (rumor says there will be minor update to OVI map but any sensible person should know by now OVI map on M5 is a helpless deadend.)

// End of rumor

Several Nokians have confirmed M5 is pretty much in maintenance mode now. The M5 journey is shorter than most of us would like to see, but let's enjoy it while it lasts....

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

leaving?why ?

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

No idea, ask Nokia.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

i guess they are leaving becouse the dead end of Maemo is clear also if it is in future. The Last hope is that Nokia will give the closed Source Code free so anybody can dev and make it better. But i guess this wont happen.

The new Star seems to be Meego if you look at the Meego Forum and IRC there are some Nicks wich you know from here..

*edit* just saw there are Nokia Job Announcments for Meego Developers on to of the Maemo Site so much about the Devs running away from Maemo..

I did ask Nokia directly about Maemo and N900 over the Customer Care. They told me something like this.. .you have 30 days to send you Device back from the day you bought it .. i dont.. and we could give you a free call to a Nokia Technican if you have some special Problems .. i doubt that the Call could give me a Proper Navigation Software or better Phone Functionalities.

But i guess if any not happy N900 User would send a Mail to them maybe they will react in a bigger way. So here the Adress where i send my Mail : ContactCentre.Europe@nokia.com lets flood them *lough*

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Ooh, shiny! Is that the same BME as found in official Diablo or the fixed (as yet unreleased) version? If the latter, is there any chance we could reuse it in a Diablo community SSU?

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

ok...im a simple nokia n900 consumer...i dont care what works and what doesnt work..what is going out and what is comin in...i just wanna know when is the next firmware update comin in?(some widgets and apps slow da phone terribly) I feel Nokia is unconnected from its consumers a real shame for a company whose tag line is connectin people!!! they could surely tell us a approx date of the next update or at least if they are changing the friggin OS!!!!:mad:

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Nokia never has published a date for when they launch software or hardware (they just wind up missing it anyway). And a date is kinda pointless when your bound to miss it.

But a firmware update wouldn't fix the "some widgets and apps slow da phone terribly" that's more an application/widget issue than an OS bugfix issue.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

As you say this, I couldn't help picturing Nokia as an old, tired lady on the phone with a customer, lighting up a cigarette, leaning back in her chair and flicking her cigarette hand outwardly as she shrugs, "We'll get to it when we get to it, alright?"

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Sorry for going off topic, but i have observed that the facebook widget was the culprit to the lagging..but ya i get ur point that this is nt a firmware issue

@danramos:lolz....it surely feels like so....:D

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

With Nokia the customer is always WRONG

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

You KNOW that if you tell them that, they'll tell you that that's not true and that you're wrong.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

ive always had trouble with nokia...the service center in my city is pathetic....takes atleast 2-3 weeks to solve the simplest problems and also they make me wait for hours to tell me that i have to pay for the repairs even if the fone is in warranty...(they always manage to find a way to put the blame on the customer)...some1 shud take this up with them...situation is pathetic...i really don wanna sound anti-nokia, but this is just what ive experienced..

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

It's not just you. You only need to do a GOOGLE search (the TMO search is lousy) of this forum to get an understanding of the scope of this problem of Nokia's relationship with customers.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

I brought in my fairly new boxed e75 to a Nokia care centre because I had forgotten my lock reset code (the phone was working fine and had all my call logs). Despite me telling them various things to prove I was the owner they said they would do nothing without a receipt and not to come back.

Not only was I made to feel like a criminal, I felt that they did not honor their warranty.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Expect PR1.3 a little while after the release of Qt 4.7

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

I've got several stories like this, but by far, my favorite is the one where I bought my Nokia bluetooth headset--which worked and sounded GREAT, but were designed in such a way that they were flimsy and broke. They're folding headsets and so were INTENDED to be folded up, but they were very thin and brittle at the edge you push to fold them.

They were beyond the 30 day warranty from newegg, so I couldn't return it to them. I called Nokia and asked them to simply replace them--at which time they told me they wouldn't honor the warranty for damage I caused. (ehm.. you designed them thin and brittle--go read reviews!)

Nokia's customer support eventually told me that they CAN provide me with a significantly discounted replacement pair. Great--fine. I asked how much it would cost. Mind you, I had just bought these for about $40 at newegg. Nokia said that with the discount, they could ship me a new pair for around $70. They were nuts. I explained that I'd just gotten a pair at $40 at newegg. She told me that this was the best she could offer.

Great. That was both unhelpful and insulting at every step. I still have the damaged pair to this day as a monument to stupid Nokia purchases. That was, in fact, the straw that broke this camel's back. I'd had several bad experiences before but that was the one that finally taught me how stupid I was to buy Nokia.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

ill keep it simple here. meego comes out with a bang..but slowly and eventually, android will conquer most n900s..with dual boot ofc cuz we cant get rid of maemo forever..

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

What.. language is that?

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Mangle. It's new.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Oh my gosh I wonder if its the same as my ones which are also broken, lying on the left side of my desk. Were they around the ear wraparounds?

http://www.gatecomusa.com/images/HENOBLUESTEREO.jpg

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Yyyyyyyyep, they are--but they weren't they one in particular. Similar, though. I can get you the model number when I get home.

Manglish. :)

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Guys, this is what wikipedia says about the N900 under 'History and Availability' - "Nokia says it is step 4 of 5 in the line of Maemo devices which started in 2005 with the Nokia 770".
So, 770, 800, 810 and 900 are steps 1-4 for Nokia. The next device Meego would be their final culminating step 5, whatever that is. So now I ask, were there 'future' for these older tablets? Is Nokia releasing updates to these older NITs? It's the same case with the N900 too. All these intemediate NITs are just stepping stones for Nokia, to finally converge on step 5. So why would they invest on updates for the older throwaway prototypes?
I would also think that once Nokia achieve step 5 (probably on Meego) they would not make their platform as open and hackable as the current one (Maemo 5 on N900). Maybe that is why some of the drivers are still closed source.

Re: What is the future for the n900 from now? meego or no updates or nothing?
 

Getting back to the start of this thread. I'm not trolling, but having taken to the n900, and lived with it for a while, I am a bit concerned from what I have read here and there (there being the Meego forum).

So, maybe developers are going to be more interested in Meego, or Android, and leaving Maemo as an interesting backwater with no commercial support? There will be Maemo updates, but that doesn't help out with getting things that work out of the box on many smart phones working on the n900.

Meego on the n900? I just read on the Meego forum that there will only be development releases on the n900. There will never be a finished, polished, stable release of Meego for the n900 which would let you use it as it was intended.

What I find quite sad is that it is a brilliant device, but having lived with it, used up most of my contract-bandwidth in an evening watching a single episode of 'The Deep' on iPlayer, run the OO WP on debian on it, used Skype, made calls, texted, used the browser, but hit a brick wall with maps... I feel it has never lived up to its full potential - and sadly never will. It is quite tragic, as I still feel we are unlikely to see anything quite like it again.

The n900/Maemo is to Android what Betamax was to VHS. VHS was inferior to the Sony giant's video system, and it took VHS a decade to release a device that could come anywhere near Betamax, but it was cheap, and easy to use. People still used Betamax 15 years on, because they were still as good as when they were released - only limited to recording as there were no titles released in that format after a few years.

I'm not expecting new releases of software for the n900/Maemo, nor any release of Meego that will run applications I want on the phone. It will always function at the level it is now, perhaps with a few bugs fixed, never realising its full potential nor running all the apps I want.

I understand that Nokia said this was a developer phone, but I think Nokia should never have allowed carriers like O2 to market these via commercial outlets like Carphone Warehouse as if they were for general consumption. If they never intended this to be fully functional, finished, device, distribution should have been restricted to developers.

This may be step 4/5, but that's not much use when you are stuck in step 4 and not only is the device still in step 3.5, and will never get as far as step 4.5.

I have hung around for a while, but honestly, I now feel all the talk about the great things that lie ahead are wishful thinking. What you see is what you get. People need to be a bit more honest about that. What you get is not that bad, but that is it.

Mish.