Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

The truly funny part is, I think you actually believe that what you just wrote is it. You actually assume no one on the council thought to try what you suggest. And you actually slam people for trying.

Simply incredible... in the most literal sense of the word.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I rest my case.
Qwerty12 was more insightful than I realized.

And on that note I feel that even I am taking this too much down to a personal level so I will bow out unless it continues at a bit higher level.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I'm really confused. Are you wanting public fighting? I think the method we've adopted is more appropriate overall: take the fights private and make the results public. That's exactly what's been happening.

But I could be wrong in that conclusion. I created the Ask the Council thread so you guys could offer us guidance, challenges. Have you taken advantage of it? I'm being serious here.

How many of those slamming or otherwise questioning council moves and motives have engaged us constructively? Help me out! I am just one person. WE are just 5.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Your continued insults are appreciated.

Am I doing it right?

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Wait.. so a council can't represent a community if it won't tell them what they want?

What kinda crap is this?!? Pshaw.. I totally want my money back. I thought I was buying psychics here... ;)

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Rather exemplary actually.

Having said that I don't think that personal mudslinging is very productive so I do apologize for my part in getting it to that point.

I do however still feel the same about the "Council" in its current shape but don't see any need to attack any individual on it as the poor results may very well had been the same regardless of who was/is on it.

The whole "Don't think we're not doing any work just because we don't tell you about it" just doesn't cut it in a community that believe in full transparency and openness and have quite a few members that are managers, project managers, etc, etc where communication and setting expectations are part of our lives.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I see value in both sides of your arguments, despite what you may think. I have to wonder whether this was Nokia's intention from the start.

Set up a community site and a council to take all the public flack, give the maemo community heads no real influence or control over Maemo but the appearance of it (at least, at first) so that Nokia itself doesn't have to look bad.

I've said many times that the Maemo folks and even the Nokia engineers are probably not at all to blame, but I REALLY am convinced that the corporate overlords at the executive and management level where decisions are being made are perfectly happy with their wages, contracts and aren't really interested in technology or with customers.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Don't mean to intterupt but could someone point me in the direction of the "Ask the Council thread" just wanting to go read.

Search seems to be broken or not finding it, maybe I will try google as well.

Sorry to derail a little ^^;;

Nevermind found it, sorry again for the post ^^ carry on :D

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I'LL GIVE YOU A PIECE OF MY MIND!!! [stares intensely!] :)

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

There's a community subforum at http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=16 for most of everything related...

The actual "Ask the Council" thread is at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41451

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

That is completely misconstruing what I said.

I said the process has been off public radar-- and even then, not completely. We have engaged here, in email, twitter, on IRC, you name it.

We are not hidden.

But iIf you have honest, serious suggestions for improvement instead of abject bashing, what are they??? Help me out. I do listen.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Okay you two let's all calm down and work this out ... this is all about consensus building. We need to reach a point of agreeing as to what to do as a community, because if the council is not in touch nor does not know what it's community members are thinking, than it cannot effectively represent them.

* Where do we stand on Nokia and the N900 support as a community?

* Where do we as a community stand on bug issues that are WONTFIX?

... etc, we have to ask these questions and a consensus must be reached. I hate polls and surveys, but we have to know what people hear are thinking to make a community driven decision. I think a large segment right now is becoming more agitated at Nokia ... but it does not make them the majority. We have to arrange new tactics in getting the message out and a conflict in this PR sensitive time is the best approach ... we are not happy so we air our grievance to whomever would listen.

Maybe to like minded folks it is time as we have overstayed the safe bastion of Nokia waters called this forum and go to a more socially aware forum that addresses our needs ( if we start fire here, they will most certainly close this place down ).

But we can't try the same tired tactics to get improvements, we need to be more forceful and know exactly what we want as an outcome (need to reach a consensus). For me I want see Nokia reverse the N900 Meego support decision. If we can forcefully push our agenda than this will solve all the other issues regarding Flash and Bugs.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Yeah found it in about 3 seconds via google. . . I am not sure why I just didn't do that in the first place my mistake really.

thanks none the less.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

If Nokia only said:

We will now focus our efforts on the MeeGo platform. However, we do not like to let down our loyal customers so there will be no Maemo PR1.3 update. Instead we will focus our efforts on bringing the MeeGo platform to the N900. The release of the update will be confirmed as soon as we have made our finalizations to MeeGo and its application to future Nokia smartphones. Current community inquiries, advise and efforts spent on the Maemo 5 platform will be highly valuable and possibly incorporated into the MeeGo project. We wish to take this opportunity to thank all Nokia customers and developers.

... and cut!
That's all that was necessary to ensure the N900 a healthy life!
(PS They should hire me hehe)

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

This takes us back to Maemo vs. maemo.org. The Council was never intended to have, or presented as having, control over Maemo. Instead, the Council is a representative body for the community. It also works closely with the paid maemo.org staff on setting priorities for the work on the community sites and resources.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Giggity


(sorry, but your Avatar made it unable to resist)

And maybe brings us back to whether the purpose of the council is to take all the flack and have none of the responsibility and control, so that Nokia can take it easy.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Posted some of them in the "Would you miss the Council"-thread.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Thats what i've been saying all along, i dropped my N900 for a Nexus One and OMG!! You who keeps waiting for the N900 to get 'fixed', what are you waiting for? Nokia really needs a miracle to compete with android.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

So, sadly, we wrap back around to exactly the original posting...

...which sounds like a proper summary of the last several pages of this thread, except we actually lost a user and potential contributor, had they felt like Nokia listened. You'll notice the tone of the message aimed all the hopelessness square on what Nokia has done to this community.

Just saying.

Dude. Where the hell did you come from and what does that have to do with this thread specifically?

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Stop it guys!this thread lead us nowhere,we all got his msg let's say Nice Big Goodbye to Him.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Yes, yes. Goodbye, potential. We hardly got to know you.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Lol, you're on a roll tonight ;).

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Hey Texrat I did not see the Ask the Council section, but giving it a quick perusal I see some of my concerns has been asked. Also I will make better use of that area.

The Council or its effectiveness is not my concern, I'm after Nokia and I know that my best asset is a community effort. I am now seeing that what I want can't even be achieved here. Reason being that a Maemo site advocating for a Maemo phone to support Meego is out of the scope of this site, but that although are my motivations. I strongly believe that Nokia made the wrong decision in stopping short of full support for Meego on the N900. They have not provided a cogent reason, nor is the suddenness of the change the right thing for the consumer. Whatever the rationale provided, Nokia ripped customers off when it came to the N900 and we should fight for the problem to be rectified.

Now I will make my grievances known to Friends and Family ... my entire group of Friends don't trust Nokia anymore and some of my family still have a couple of E-series phones good phones ... but I will convince them to move to a BB on their next qwerty business phone. I will also take it public to websites like Boy Genius, Giz, Engadget, arsTechnica, techcrunch, and etc... might join in on some good ol' North American Nokia bashing. Maybe some of us should consider making a "Meego for N900" advocacy group website/ forum/ blog where we can better manage the PR machine ... and would give us more independence from this site, its rules, and proximity to Nokia.

For Maemo issue's no doubt this is the place to go to ... for direct Nokia policy related issue we need to take it out of Maemo.org and avoid these kinds of hostilities with fellow members as this is not the councils jurisdiction and above their mandate, they handle Maemo related issues (please look into the Flash delay/ absence).

For Maemo although a public memo should still be done saying that the community believes in the Maemo OS to be a robust modern day OS for mobile and in home uses. It has a large user base, and a viable development platform. Nokia's decision to go to Meego does not underscore the efficacy of Maemo to be a standalone OS, nor does it dampen the strengths with which the Open Source community currently associate Maemo with. Also Maemo will continue to have a bright future in the mobile arena for the years to come.

That memo should serve as a reminder that this is Maemo, and not Meego related. It will show that the council and the community is independent of Nokia's erratic corporate dealings and that the community still sees purpose in Maemo whether it be Harmattan or Fremantle.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

if Maemo died that day, there would not have been PR 1.2, nor there would be PR 1.3 which I believe will deliver.

I'm also not sugar coating Nokia, I'm just a bit bored of these "Nokia didn't do as I want, so Nokia SUCKS!!!"-threads. I tend to look at the bigger picture, which is why I understand the decision to concentrate all effort to Meego, even if I cannot understand why Nokia decided not to support MeeGo on N900. For me Maemo 5 is still just one iteration of OS and N900 just a gadget I happen to like as it is. I'm unlikely to buy MeeGo device just one year after N900, I rather see this device through and upgrade only if there is concrete need for it. I also repeat what I have said before: I knew what I was buying, so I don't have that much to complain and I suggest that such devices should not be bought based on speculation and idea that "I want it to be like this or that, so manufacturer X MUST update it to what I WANT or I'll rant about it as long as there's a single forum to write to".

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Yes everybody is entitled to have an opinion, but if you can't give it without that kind of language and personal attacks and insults then you should just keep silent cause you will just end up hurting people that way and that might be what he intented for some reason. Well he must feel hurt/decieved by some people. And who wouldn't get hurt/angry and offencive by an approach like that from qwerty regardless of his deeper intentions. Me for one (rhetorical nor am i mentioned or feel stepped on by his rant)

And there's no actually being right or wrong since everybody got there own truth and experience of a specific event. There's facts that you can either accept or deny and mold in to your own 'truth' and further more it's really easy to blame others and not one self.

You might be subjective but neither right or wrong cause you're not looking at facts and i doubt that qwerty's rant is full of facts. You seldom look objective and at the facts when you're angry/hurt.

e: with this you don't allow him to his opinion:
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and there really is no need bold that you happen to think it was wrong.

Since it wasn't.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

No time for idiotic threads like this... people should have more faith in themselves and kick back at fing NOKIA !!!.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Sorry that one made me chortle. I just spilled tea on my keyboard and my boss now knows I am not doing work.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

thats fantastic! and it shows nokias ignorance even more.

how do i know? i didnt say its our fault. i said nokia is not reacting to the communities input.

nokia?

i didnt intend to say that the community isnt reporting to nokia. maybe i used the wrongs words.
the community is saying they are in contact with nokia. the community has a lot of threads complaining about missing features, bugs etc. and nearly nothing of that got fixed so far.
ergo its nokia.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

I agree! Im on the same boat.....im now even thinking of aborting the wait for nokia's meego handset.....as it will prob turn out to have a similar outcome......how many chances are we going to give nokia really?
And you are right, if it wasn't for the maemo community then we would all be worse off with our n900's, so a great big thank you to everyone one here that continue to help and support us.
I think ill be going for android as well.....will give it a bit more time and see if anything new comes out.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Na na na na, Na na na na, Ehhh Ehhhh, GoodBye!
(singing) :p

Attachment 12874

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

i wonder........why this one is still going?

oh.....coz i posted a reply! :D

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

lol, think he was referring to my old signature I had for several months, Waiting for...

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Gosh.... It is always sad to see another member of the community leave, but the council bashing is even more sad, especially if you have read articles like this:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07...nifesto_risku/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08...risku_mailbag/

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Interesting articles. No shocking information, but worth a read nonetheless.

How are they relevant to council-bashing though?

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Hmmm I guess from the overall feel to the article, ofc I haven't read the book yet, but I think that will go on my list when I get some free time.... But some examples are:

“I would say that the highest abstraction level of the problem is that there are incompetent people managing, ordering or directing things.”

“When incompetent people are managing the chain, they have the mandate but don't have that courage. Even when we bring something to market, we're always developing versions from 1.0 to 1.2, but not to version 3 or 4.”

“I have an E71 business phone, and I noticed that when the phone was locked it popped up a dialog that obscured the notifications. I asked, ‘Can you make it 5mm smaller, please?’. They investigated the code in the phone and said ‘We can’t find the piece of code that could shift it up 5mm.’ They said, ‘There’s 20 million lines of code in the phone – it’s impossible.’”

I can't imagine what it would be like for the council to try to get ideas never mind actual action from an org that has stagnated to such a point :(

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

i jumped ship to andriod few months after getting n900 and i'm so happy i did.
andriod 2.2 on desire is great especially on rooted phone.

Oh to those losers posting "ok bye u will be missed", close the door on your way out" in a sarcastic way , well go cry to nokia for an app, things are moving forward and your still lagging behind just because its got a nokia logo on it!

:D

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

Someone please kill this thread. One of so many that gather hundreds of useless, venom filled posts while useful threads languish in obscurity.

Twenty pages of nothing.

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

lol @ the tag "hulksmash"

Re: BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia!
 

nokia n900 also do another great job that you shouldnt miss it. you can break windows of your naighbor's house by it . can android phones do this?