Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

I think we've conclusively proved the Council is useful. So, concretely, there are two possible issues:

• The right things aren't being communicated. I'm not sure this is true, look at the council blog - that's where the big things are. I'm British, I'm not going to post something just to say "we helped" - the politician opening the road which was mentioned earlier.
• The communication isn't being seen. Very possible. But it's in one place, with an RSS feed. It's on the primary news source for Maemo (I'd like to claim that's MWKN, but it should be maemo.org/news/). Every post is now copied into the Community forum here.

Specific suggestions on those two points as to how to improve it are appreciated. Mention something above - or something else you know we've done - which you think we should be advertising our involvement in more. Describe the media in which those communications should be that they aren't already.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

I get passionate about this community. Sorry for the times it bleeds all over the forum. I should just shut up more often.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

at least they care enough to try.. I think thats better than caring enough to complain.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

mate not telling u to shut up - but dun let it bother u - be like jaffa is life is too short for this

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

Frustration aside...

Here's an honest question... if our (the community's) voices were more uniform in what our grievances, concerns and requests were, would that assist the council in regards to what is important for them to convey from us to Nokia?

Or have I - and I don't mind be 100% wrong here - misinterpreted all that the council can do in terms of being a voice to Nokia?

I'm not even asking if Nokia is listening - that's an issue that I'm not trying to drag back up - but just trying to fully grasp what can, cannot be done and roles therein.

And despite being voted in and being volunteers; how well do some of the members of the council feel as if they represent the range of grievances, concerns from this community? I'll rather not single out any one or multiple council member (no need) but I know some of their concerns do not match mine, vice versa mainly because of some of their development choices or user area(s) of prior concerns.

If the council (again, I can be wrong here) are our (the community's) representatives, who exactly do they fully represent in terms of what's been addressed here ad nauseum at TMO? What are the standing concerns outside of the aforesaid Python which has the developer and advocate from Nokia involved? What other issues are on the table by the council? And is this information fully and wholly made public?

Thanks in advance. Just curious about the levels of interaction betwixt council and community.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

Questioning anything is healthy! The way it is done most of the time, is stupid.

What the council is in my eyes...

An elected working group, a bunch (5) of people working together to get community issues (and as heavily stated several times here not "end-user" issues) solved and if needed talked to Nokia about it.

I asked several times to spam nokia.com with all the nokia-end-user related stuff as this is the wrong place for it. (I did it myself for things I like to have done and won't expect any response)

So what the council does is written all over the place, what effort is and if Nokia is affording anything. You just have to read it and this is another thing... there is google... you request support for all kind of google stuff but don't know that it is a search engine initially?! http://tinyurl.com/38n4gu6 (pathetic I know)

Oh and for mis-moderation?! Didn't read you asking for a moderator tag yet. But read people claiming that the mods should read any threads anyway... and there is no point in asking for moderation via "Report This" just because they must read the posts anyway!
You think 11 moderators are able to read all threads of tmo?

Ask the Moderators for help at tmo and you will get help.
Ask the Council for help with a community issue and you will get help.

I just read the full 10 pages of this thread and am disappointed that it is even needed to state anything of that clear thought.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

I don't have much time at the moment, but I think:

1. Council importance
- yes it is required. We do need an official voice back to Nokia, and we have it. If you do not use it, then that is your problem. I truly believe if I had an issue requiring Nokia attention, I could get it communicated to them via the Council.

2. Council Effectiveness:
- This is something that is subjective since it depends on what an individual deems important. As an end-user and enthusiast of Maemo, the Council is doing their role fine enough for me. They are facilitating where required, getting developer resources they need, clearing the air over things like QT, etc. Work that needs to be done, but that is not very glamorous, or personally rewarding, I am sure.

3. Council Communication:
-Stop reading the 'new posts', and look at the Community sub-forum, the -community mailing list, and mwkn, and maemo.org/news. Most, if not all, Council communication I have seen in their term has been there. I do not think I have missed much since March, although I speak infrequently nowadays.

4. Forum members expectations of our Council
- Please be real. This group of 5 that we have are volunteers, not officially linked to Nokia, or Maemo in any way. They are doing this willingly, and using their own personal time. Please ask yourselves this: What do you think their families would say if they heard you saying that their role was useless? They would probably question why they are attending IRC meetings, firing off emails before bed, and generally, making a huge dent in their personal lives for the sake of this ungrateful community.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

I am not out for an argument with anyone, I would however ask this despite knowing how silly it would sound.

Would creating a thread petitioning for flash 10 (and or better ovi store support) help in any way?

Members would simply vote. All one has to do to make Nokia aware of this particular problem is show the petition to them, and according to the response, it'll be easier to determine how much of an arse they (nokia) are. Also this way the council members would have the communities response / needs in a more uniformed manner.

I know there's many other problems going on in this forum, but I think that flash 10 and ovi store support are the two of highest priority.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

What is uniformity? I'm not just being facetious, either. How do YOU define it?

There are thousands of members here, yet only a handful truly active and only a tiny subset of that ever engage with community issues as I already noted.

So I listen to anyone who takes the time to speak-- which IMO is too few and too rare. And that even includes complainers, although I concede that it's hard to give credence to anyone who cannot be pleased. I'm more inclined to spend my time on complainers with concrete suggestions who avoid ridicule.

As for representative stances... prior to the election, the community had an opportunity to query candidates. I was pleased to see that there was more engagement this last time than previously. And every candidate made it clear where they stood.

In a nutshell, *I* represent anyone who shares my core ideals. That's who I would expect voted for me and they are the ones I target. Those ideals revolve around product quality, community outreach, process improvement and community growth.

My concerns as expressed many times have to do with Maemo-Meego product transitions, Nokia executive decisions with which I disagree (N900 support, etc) and more than anything else the future of this community. But I can't solve those, and as Jaffa clearly stated, the council shouldn't and can't be the ultimate solution. We are a facilitating body. Solutions need to come from both ends of the rope we're holding.

That's you, Nokia and maemo.org community.

Just my opinions.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

We need a Barack Obama on the council to lead us!

/sarcasm

Ok i'm going back to lurking again, sorry.