Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

Is any of the following list provided by Nokia? Because In my opinion all of it is necessary in order to have a chance of real free software community interest:

• License to distribute all necessary binary firmware.
• Information on power system enough to write replacement BME.
• Information about the modem enough to use both voice sms and data using all protocols (GSM/GPRS/EDGE/UMTS/HSUPA).
• Information about the GPS chip enough to have A-GPS.
• Bootloader information needed to write a free flasher.

Without all these you cannot really have a free distribution.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

I'm afraid I'm going to, just one little bit to show why when we say we're useful, and other people who are big contributors in the community say we're useful, you (pl.) should listen.

The letter is written supporting Python in Ovi Store as:

• Most apps on Maemo are written by the Maemo community. (With the N900, most devices are bought by the mainstream who never visit talk.maemo.org)
• A lot of apps on Maemo are written in Python, as it's the closest language Maemo has which is high-level and can compete with time-limited developers who might otherwise be attracted to Android (Java: OO, GCed) or iOS (ObjectiveC: OO, ...).
• Developers also like to make money.
• Platforms are evaluated, in the press, on the strength of the app stores. Despite the community's efforts, this is viewed as being Ovi Store for Maemo; rather than maemo.org Extras.
• Users use things written by developers.
• Therefore, developers putting more stuff in Ovi helps users get more out of their devices.

We aren't favouring developers: but it's a consumer issue which can be addressed from a community approach. QED ;-)

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

There have been a number of suggestions made in this thread of Nokia's various consumer and customer feedback mechanisms. I would suggest that they are the 'right' wall.

Getting angry at the wrong people because the right people won't do what you want is destructive and wasteful. Perhaps the ire currently being directed at the Council for not doing what is not their brief would better be directed at:

http://nokia.suggestionbox.com/
http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/
http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/
http://www.forum.nokia.com/
http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/con...o-our-web-team

I don't for one moment dispute that these places have wall-like listening skills. But they are, at least, appropriate places to be angry.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

I don't think there are any restrictions on who can be on the council. I never tried running myself (only voted like you). But if there aren't any restrictions you and anyone else is free to try running for it. I'm sure there are more then enough people to get elected on the "get Nokia to talk to us" platform.

Then you or anyone else can go ahead and try to talk to Nokia and see why things are the way they are. Then try not to be to upset at the community (while I can see the arguments as to how to device the community I ultimately think that if your on this site your part of it) as they continue to attack anyone in a desperate plea for attention from Nokia.

I personally rather have the council put the efforts towards something that can at least be done rather than something that's impossible. And while I may not be directly influenced by what they work on, I am indirectly affected by it as a user of the N900 and the maemo OS.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

I'm going to have to go with gerbick on this. I assumed, wrongly it seems, that the council had the ear of Nokia to put forth issues important to the community.

Being as this community is made up of a diverse group, I assumed this meant some of those issues would be ones important to the consumer/enduser type of person. In reality, the council is more concerned with the developer portion of the community. Debmasters, webmasters, sponsorships to meetings, loaner devices, etc, all things more important to developers as opposed to users.

I appreciate what the council tries to do. Recently, the letter about python, in theory, this should eventually help the consumer, through trickle-down. A letter about MyNokia, with a canned legal response.

As I write this, I think, what did the council expect to happen with the letter about MyNokia? From what I've read in this thread, that is far outside the scope of what they (and Quim) think they should be working on. It seems like they could write letters on a variety of subjects (Flash, support issues, MeeGo, etc) that are obviously important to the consumer as well. Sure it may have only resulted in a PR response, but at least the council could say "look we made an effort" (at least as much as they did for MyNokia).

So, from what I've seen expressed, I'll stand on the fact the I don't believe the council should represent me, and as such, I shouldn't vote. Much like being a US citizen, I shouldn't be voting for Canadian stuff.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

It's not a "snap" nor "yell"... in fact, it's nothing of the sort. I'm just simply stating that it does not exist, the answers are not evident and to state otherwise; prove it.

I don't always use "kid gloves" when talking. I shouldn't have to when talking to adults.

Not yelling. No need. Just clarify. That's what is needed.

talk.maemo.org - or TMO hereon - is a forum dedicated to all things Maemo including: discussion, announcements, information and questions. TMO facilitates open discussion about discoveries and conversation about all sections of Nokia Maemo devices; however this is not the site to expect Nokia to fix any/all customer grievances.

TMO allows for freedom of speech; however all members are expected to follow a level of conduct that does not allow for continued attacks and/or disrespectful demeanor to other members.

TMO's Council is an elected group that will bring forward community based inquiries and grievances in the effort to address them from elected members in the know. Not all questions are answerable, not all grievances are solvable. But the TMO Council listens, corresponds and engages all discussion.

Something like that perhaps?

Again... I didn't "snap" or "yell" at anybody. Just trying to get some clarity... post haste. If it's still lacking going into the 20th page or so, then mission not accomplished (from my standpoint).

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

True.. and this is the only way to really fix anything.. but seriously I'm stuck.

So what's my alternatives? Let's see... I purchase the iPhone and support a draconic evil empire that is akin to Windows for the Desktop... thus pretty much devaluing every personal belief I have and tearing apart every fiber of my being...

Or I get a WinMo phone... See above.

Or I get an Android Phone.. which - I don't hate Google near as much as Apple or WinMo, so in this case I won't feel like I need to commit suicide... but I do hate the actual OS. It's like.. Linux done wrong. I don't like the way google took a good framework.. dismantled it, and put it back together with all new parts that IMHO.. suck. (I'm not a Java fan...) Arguably, Google sucks equally bad at supporting their phones too (being just one: Nexus One).

Or I get Maemo... an Operating System that actually feels second nature to me, is powerful, and brings my home computer with me everywhere I go. But, then I deal with lackluster (if not downright crappy) business decisions that directly affect the usefulness of my phone.

So really... tell me: Where am I supposed to take my money to make anybody change anything? I mean.. I do need a cell phone here.. I can't exactly not own one...

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

You forgot to point them at Nokia's competitors, too. I'm sure Nokia's competition would LOVE to listen to your rants about Nokia's products and explain to you how they might intend to remedy at least SOME of your issues for you.

Bad replacement warranty? We offer INSTANT replacement!
No spare parts/stylus/etc? We got that!
You KNOW they pick their nose and sigh when you call support? You can WALK INTO OUR STORE and clearly see our reps--NOT picking their nose and sighing!

Basically, if Nokia is putting up walls, maybe it's time to walk through some doors and check out the competition. I hold out hope that Nokia will change, too, but I'm FAR happier for having spent my saved up money on my Dell mini9 and my Motorola Droid in lieu of the new same-old Nokia experience during the time when I could have gotten it.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

You've just displayed that you're not listening... just wish to center around one/few words in a rather lengthy post. Sorry, but that's a waste of time when you toss out 90% of a discussion only to address 10% and have it be the most minor of details.

Car analogy time... that would be like getting a $250k Ferrari and only commenting on the radio knob.

I suggest otherwise for fruitful discussion hereon.

But you're not exactly in the position to settle customer grievances either. So to circle back, who does the council support exactly?

One word answers are easier to digest.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?
 

You know fatalsaint, you and I are in a similar boat. And sadly we have to make sacrifices sometimes. Just like there's no device out there that has all the hardware I wish it had, maybe there's no one OS out there that has all of what I want.

So the only solution is to move back to carrying two devices. But hey, at least you get the benefit of longer battery life by seperating the functionality.