maemo.org - Talk - Would you miss the Council if it was gone?

maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- Community (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

- - Would you miss the Council if it was gone? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60131)

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matan (Post 783352)

Is any of the following list provided by Nokia? Because In my opinion all of it is necessary in order to have a chance of real free software community interest:

Interestingly, you forgot my favourite point "documentation and/or free driver for the PowerVR SGX".

To be honest I don't expect to have a 100% free image anytime soon; but a "free enough" image that will spark free software community interest -- you already have it.

Also see hacker editions.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevdKathy (Post 783360)

There have been a number of suggestions made in this thread of Nokia's various consumer and customer feedback mechanisms. I would suggest that they are the 'right' wall.

But none of the suggestions are definitive enough. I mean... if I have a grievance with my bank, I have a direct number for that.

If I have a physical problem with my Nokia product, I have a direct number and/or e-mail address for that.

But if I have a feature request or wish to "do more research"... I don't quite have a direct anything for that. I can go to a number of places (you've listed them out below, thank you) and yet... nothing states "If you have a question about this, go here. If you have a concern about this... go here. And if you just want to raise pure, living hell... go here."

That's what is missing in some pieces and tends to leave people 'stranded' and unsure if they're even in the right place. That's the clarity I currently seek and would love the council to have made fully clear.

But at the same time, I'm still figuring to whom the council can/cannot help. Thus my statements, my requests and my inquiries.

Quote:

Getting angry at the wrong people because the right people won't do what you want is destructive and wasteful.

Assumptions are equally wasteful. Attempting to get answers and clear definitions is not wasteful. Please see the difference.

Quote:

Perhaps the ire currently being directed at the Council for not doing what is not their brief would better be directed at....

There's no vitriol in my verbiage. I'm only seeking answers. If my words are continued to be misconstrued, then I suggest that my prior statements and questions be understood as just a method to figure out things. Nothing more, nothing less. There is nothing more than rank curiosity in my questioning thus far.

And to be fair, I feel as if asking questions tends to get relegated to "anger" way too often when it's not even necessary. Be clear; that's my only request. No anger, no personal feelings needed.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?

What you have is an image that lacks a lot of functionality. Furthermore even that limited functionality depends on binaries with no free distribution license, therefore you cannot distribute modified images.

This will spark free software community interest exactly as much as Mer (or the hacker editions) did - none whatsoever.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 783368)

I'm just simply stating that it does not exist, the answers are not evident and to state otherwise; prove it.

It's been provided. See RevdKathy's last post. I don't understand why that isn't answering your statement...?

Quote:

I don't always use "kid gloves" when talking. I shouldn't have to when talking to adults.

A little human decency, though, isn't asking too much IMO. Not political correctness or "kid gloves". Civility.

Quote:

Just trying to get some clarity... post haste. If it's still lacking going into the 20th page or so, then mission not accomplished (from my standpoint).

There would be much fewer pages if people would just stop stop with the "I didn't see it so it didn't happen" and similar time-wasting statements. Or if I would quit caring so much about solving problems and shut up.

Anyway, your suggested description sounds good. It would be nice to see other suggestions and then the council could hammer out something definitive.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatalsaint (Post 783370)

Or I get an Android Phone.. which - I don't hate Google near as much as Apple or WinMo, so in this case I won't feel like I need to commit suicide... but I do hate the actual OS. It's like.. Linux done wrong. I don't like the way google took a good framework.. dismantled it, and put it back together with all new parts that IMHO.. suck. (I'm not a Java fan...) Arguably, Google sucks equally bad at supporting their phones too (being just one: Nexus One).

I can't speak to the other platforms, because I went with Android as the next portable gadget after my N800, myself. But then if you don't like how it runs, why not participate in improving it? The OS is open-source (certainly the portions you're describing). If it wasn't, the hacking community wouldn't be doing the crazy things I've seen.

As for supporting their phones, the good news is that Google only makes ONE phone. The rest are supported by a PLETHORA of manufacturers. I can't say the same for Maemo. I hope I can say the same for MeeGo but that's still not something I can walk into a store and buy today to get away from the Nokia nuttiness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatalsaint (Post 783370)

So really... tell me: Where am I supposed to take my money to make anybody change anything? I mean.. I do need a cell phone here.. I can't exactly not own one...

Ah, the dilemma that haunts ALL voting. I guess that is where every individual needs to come down and make their own decision. Do you stick with the status quo and hope for improvement, or do you go with the competitor (maybe even get some new thinking and experience under your belt)? The good news is that, if Nokia improves or MeeGo gets adopted more broadly, you can always come back. In the meantime, you might at least give them a message by not supporting the status quo relationship with this vendor.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laughing Man (Post 783379)

You know fatalsaint, you and I are in a similar boat. And sadly we have to make sacrifices sometimes. Just like there's no device out there that has all the hardware I wish it had, maybe there's no one OS out there that has all of what I want.

So the only solution is to move back to carrying two devices. But hey, at least you get the benefit of longer battery life by seperating the functionality.

I did. For some time I used just a standard cell phone with the N810 (which, obviously, isn't helping here since we're still supporting Nokia).. but once I got the G1 the N810 just wasn't as useful anymore so I left it at home and never really thought about it again.

But then I had to deal with android day in and day out.. Now.. Android is a fine OS - it just isn't me. It kept not doing things I wanted it to.. or do things I didn't want it to (killing my connections.. constantly.. cuz "I wasn't using them"..) just downright frustrating.

But now I'm hooked to a singular device. When I saw the n900 I nearly cheered, finally the N810 back but smaller (for my pocket) and faster (my biggest gripe about the N810.. processor sucked) and most importantly Maemo.

Unfortunately that came with a price.. a price I didn't have. So I started saving, wrote an app for it to get donations, and by the time I had the money now I'm reading that the N900 could be forgotten within a couple months after release. So I waited and dealt with android (a broken one at that) longer until I read that at the minimum, there would be dev releases of the future OS for the N900. Then I finally bought one.

Honestly that's all I can do. Do I like Nokia? Not particularly.. honestly I don't much care one way or the other from "Nokia" to "Motorola" to "HTC".. doesn't make a difference to me. But, Nokia is the only one releasing a device that is closest for me. Thus, they get my money. They will continue to get my money, unfortunately, despite their bad record, as long as they continue to release devices that fit me best around the time that i need them.

That's just the unfortunate truth of it.. But at no point in any of this did it occur to me to blame Texrat, or the Council in any way. They didn't make my phone, and they certainly didn't make me buy it. I will admit to sometimes getting frustrated with Quim. Don't get me wrong, he seems an excellent dude that I'd love to take for a drink sometime.. but every time he speaks I can almost see that he is tip toeing around NDA's and a specific list of stuff he's allowed and specifically not allowed to talk about. I don't believe we get a whole truth from him all the time - but at the same I don't really blame him.

He does have to eat, too. I can't expect him to put his job on the line because I'm angry my phone gets ignored.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemmyslender (Post 783367)

I'm going to have to go with gerbick on this. I assumed, wrongly it seems, that the council had the ear of Nokia to put forth issues important to the community.

Exactly, the Maemo.org Council HAS Nokia's ear on the community: the Maemo.org community.
Not the Nokia "community" of customers.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matan (Post 783391)

Bang on, Matan. Absolutely BANG ON with that assessment. Mer was precisely killed by its lack of openness, but it's cute to see people say that it was the community's fault for not being involved.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 783373)

You've just displayed that you're not listening... just wish to center around one/few words in a rather lengthy post. Sorry, but that's a waste of time when you toss out 90% of a discussion only to address 10% and have it be the most minor of details.

No, I am listening. Are you? You said we favour developer issues; that's not true: we favour community issues. I was trying to show how your choice of what you considered a "developer issue", wasn't.

I'm sorry I didn't make that clearer.

Nor do I consider the example of choosing who gets to go the summit or conference on someone else's budget a "developer" issue. Many of the people sponsored last year weren't developers.

Hell, two of the current council aren't, or have never been, active Maemo developers.

Re: Would you miss the Council if it was gone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 783392)

It's been provided. See RevdKathy's last post. I don't understand why that isn't answering your statement...?

I just thanked her for that. It still lacks definition.

Quote:

A little human decency, though, isn't asking too much IMO. Not political correctness or "kid gloves". Civility.

None of the above was put in there by me, on my statements. It's how you've decided to perceive it. Not my job to convince you about something that you've already decided in your head. The words came from me, thus I'm the source; lack of civility, et al just isn't there.

Curt, yes. Lacking civility, only in your head. I tend to never argue a point with anybody if that is their opinion; fact is I harbored none of those feelings whilst typing my prior statements.

I don't change other people's perceptions. It starts and stops with that person. Projecting it to me, that's also your decision.

I'll defend myself no longer for something I have absolutely no part in.