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-   -   what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60402)

Texrat 2010-08-17 14:24

Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Does that mean I should close this thread?

abill_uk 2010-08-17 14:25

Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 789387)
So, I think it's about time for me to really weigh in why it is I'm pushing MeeGo on N900 and why this is the right direction. This is probably going to be a bit long.

This is also probably my last long post on the matter as I'm now fully in a MeeGo role, no longer maemo.org distmaster.

The fact is that the model of 770 -> N800 -> N810 -> N900 has been that of one device per OS version. There hasn't been resources for keeping a full product team for multiple devices at a time.

This has caused what some describe as Rapid Obsolescence Syndrome, where the device OS rapidly goes into maintenance mode after device release while mostly everyone involved moves on to the next product/device. This obviously leaves users unhappy.

Now, there are multiple suggestions around here:

* Fremantle community SSU
* Petition for open sourcing most of Fremantle to keep it maintained
* Harmattan HE for N900
(etc)

And my main point in the following is that those directions will be like pissing your pants to keep yourself warm. Quick review:

Community SSU can work on the open source parts (it has happened on N8x0 just fine). Maybe you can find some ability together with Fremantle aficionados inside Nokia who could be interested in contributing with upgrades of some binary packages -
I doubt there's any problem if those exist to slip some packages out.

But the main point is: no upstream work will really happen. I highly doubt you can find enough people that are still around to keep things working. Even with documentation, the code can be quite hairy to add new features to. So that bends down to a resourcing problem.

Open sourcing most of Fremantle - I simply don't think it's going to happen. Too much work for too little benefit. And the same problems as with normal SSU when the code does arrive.

Harmattan HE. This would already be obsolete by the time we were done as a more modern platform would be available in MeeGo. As well as at some point, no more upstream development.

The main point - you'll piss your pants with these projects to keep yourself warm for a while, but you'll just keep on feeding the Rapid Obsolescence Syndrome to some extent - that you'll never be able to play catch-up to new technologies and satisfy the requirements of your users. It is a physical impossibility as there's many more man-hours poured into MeeGo than you can provide here.

MeeGo and Qt has changed the status quo that existed that:
* Any Linux-based OS platform from Nokia is tied to a certain device
* Any applications from Nokia is tied to a certain device by fact that they were released for a certain OS platform.

It's a game-changer because now, for any given 'Nokia' OS for these devices, this will after Harmattan be based off MeeGo (platform from MeeGo.com).

Now, what are we actually doing in MeeGo for N900?

First off - we're making the hardware adaptation for N900 maintainable.

This means that we are actively upstreaming N900 drivers to the mainline Linux kernel as well as getting those few blobs we have into the MeeGo non-oss repositories with redistributable license. This is actively happening.

Second, we're running QA daily to make sure that N900 still works with the current MeeGo platform state. This means we're always at the front of the platform development. MeeGo platform doesn't move forward if a change breaks N900 - it is a reference device.

That's not pissing your pants to keep warm. That's making a bonfire and collecting wood to make us sustainably warm. And that's one of the reasons why I hope for more people to contribute to the MeeGo effort.

Now for the users. Look forward a bit - Nokia's obviously going to make a OS release based on 'real' MeeGo.com. The same code that'll power future handsets will be based on the same code that N900 already now supports. It's the same infrastructure that builds images and software that MeeGo for N900 is made using, as any given future Nokia OS. Instead of Nokia having applications tied to Fremantle or to Diablo or whatever, they now tie to MeeGo - the same platform you have on your N900.

If you want to make a real bonfire and eat your cake too, you will want to do the following:

* Contribute to MeeGo and MeeGo on N900 in the short term - this will improve matters for Nokia N900 obviously.
* Petition for Nokia early on, to consider providing the following things:
** Executive summary: access to the binaries making up the Nokia differentiation
** Weekly (or other interval) repository releases (binaries) available to Nokia N900 users of their future MeeGo.com-based OS under the usual 'this is not for end-users, bla bla'. Kinda like the old 'Sardine'
** Kickstart files for these weekly releases so you can edit them into your own images for the N900 using the Nokia bits.
** Community can be possibly be more involved in the QA process this way and contribute in general.
** If branding is a problem, have community themes and icons.
** Suggest new ways to have both a 'closed' vendor OS with all the goodies based on MeeGo.com while at same time having your power user community close to you.

Now, this is a way that can keep you ahead of the curve regarding your device. The N900 hardware isn't going obsolete for many years and is still very capable.

I think this might be possible to pull off, but it requires people to start gaining skills within MeeGo - and help contribute to MeeGo on N900. It's a similar approach to Harmattan HE, but more involved and more future proof. So I wouldn't say it's impossible.

So - it's your choice: Live in the future instead of the past.

I'll be working to make the future happen - see you on http://www.meego.com (and http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 )

Why oh why did you not post this after the opening post of this thread !!! or was it your intention to find out the passion of people and their N900's !!!.

If i did not know better i would kick your .... but hell your a blessing in disguise and a huge BIG thankyou !!!!!!.

Stskeeps 2010-08-17 14:25

Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 789428)
Does that mean I should close this thread?

Maybe it'll take on a different, constructive character after my post.

abill_uk 2010-08-17 14:31

Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 789428)
Does that mean I should close this thread?

I think maybe just maybe stskeeps is right texrat so maybe leave it open?.

lcuk 2010-08-17 14:36

Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 789387)
...

We have known this for a while!
However, right now and for a foreseeable period, Meego on N900 will not be viable as your day to day device (unless you have some firm concrete dates to give us)

This was something in Mer you aimed for - to get it usable by the general user for everything they currently do.

My suggestion to add debian packages onto the Meego applications currently in gitorious would allow owners of the N900 to test and improve the applications whilst giving you guys the breathing space to make a knockout supreme stack!

btw, this community has been mostly busy outside of some of these threads (you guys should really look around more!) - we have more apps and activities than ever before.
The community coding competition was awesome and showed some amazing applications

http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Coding_Competition_1


Just recently, live background work has been ongoing and includes XScreensaver support, so those of you that like draining battery can do so in a much more pretty refined manner!

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...001#post787001

abill_uk 2010-08-17 14:38

Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
I dont mind if it is Meego or Maemo that gets support but when i see this happen then for sure once tested properly i will put all the mods up for everyone to do not untill !.

tswindell 2010-08-17 14:44

Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
I'd prefer hardware mod free host mode to be honest. Cutting on the device is completely unnecessary, not that I expect you to listen ..

jflatt 2010-08-17 14:46

Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 788211)
I am sorry to say this but the last post i reported got a reply from a Mod who i will not name to get a life !.

This made my day

Venemo 2010-08-17 14:49

Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 789387)
...

Hey Stskeeps, this sounds real good!

However, as much as I'd like to help, I'm "just" an application developer. And I have "only" one N900, which means I wouldn't flash a non-functional OS on it, as I use it daily as my phone and multimedia device.

The question is: how can a person like me contribute to your project?

archzai 2010-08-17 14:50

Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 787488)
Aha, thanks for sharing your definition!

well if he really did what he did, I for sure would admit I'm a noob and non-engineer. Would you guys really understand if he posted how to do the hardware mods? I don't really see what the issue is with discussing future collaboration. Why do some people insist on wanting to see what he's done before being willing to discuss what we as a community can do?


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