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-   -   what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60402)

YoDude 2010-08-15 21:45
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javispedro (Post 787119)
Who is "this community"? Who is "us"? Why you seem to think these two are separate entities somehow?

Exactly :)

The problems I believe many have with the OP is his use of these words "us" and "we" as if he is organizing a union or suttin' :D

(Notice I wrote "I believe". I do not presume to speak for anyone else.)

To answer the question that was used to title this thread:
Quote:
(W)hat is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
What I, as community member, am prepared to do for me is:

Continue to post replies to threads like this that the OP doesn't speak for me or (IMHO) anywhere near the majority of the rest of our community.

It is a shame too, because perhaps a point or two are valid and I could relate and provide support for them.
However, once a "we/us"or "you/them" presumption is made I've learned to stop reading and move on as I and others begin to react negatively and the thread more often than not, turns to crap. :)

Texrat 2010-08-15 21:54
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahadj2003 (Post 787321)
this is the attack
The statement you quoted is not even close to meeting the definition of attack.

gerbick 2010-08-15 22:02
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
I have to ask where is the proof that development via Nokia on the Maemo 5 platform will continue after PR1.3?

As quick as his FUD was shot down, I seen no proof.

fahadj2003 2010-08-15 22:08
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 787363)
I have to ask where is the proof that development via Nokia on the Maemo 5 platform will continue after PR1.3?

As quick as his FUD was shot down, I seen no proof.
common sense and past experience
and rest
whatever
what do i care
i rest my case 8-)

NokTokDaddy 2010-08-15 22:10
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
I remember getting my 7110 - thought I'd have that phone forever.

N900 has been a blast for me and will continue to be so for at least six months or so. Beyond that, the world moves on and my N900 will become ebay fodder.

I am hugely grateful to this community for all the extra goodies that have made this experience worthwhile, engaging and educational.

I am hugely disappointed that Nokia did not make a better job of the device in several key areas, but I do not hold any fantasies for some alchemical solution that will transform the base N900 into something more glittering and future-proof.

Meego for N900 will be interesting if made available at all. I am sure that some dedicated enthusiasts will engineer a solution but by the time that happens most of us who live in the Real World will have bought a REAL Meego device.

Sorry, abill_uk - I think you are barking up the wrong tree; nothing lasts forever...

See you on talk.meego.com or whatever in 18 months or so!

gerbick 2010-08-15 22:16
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahadj2003 (Post 787368)
common sense and past experience
and rest
whatever
what do i care
i rest my case 8-)
Your case is bunk and you've somehow depredated my time by making me read such drivel. Let's attempt this again.

To the naysayers, I've yet to see proof that PR1.3 is not the end of Maemo 5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
On May 25, 2010, Nokia announced that future development for Maemo on the N900 would cease[citation needed].
Not that Wikipedia is the end all, say all for all information since it can be edited by most anybody; it is a lot more visual than the counter argument in this thread. If somebody has a link to where I could honestly see where Nokia has stated otherwise, I'd be appreciative.

The counter to FUD is actual information.

johnel 2010-08-15 22:25
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Maybe it's time to close this thread.

People here have asked legitimate questions and proof of abill_uk's claims - repeatedly.

Absolutely nothing has been gained from this.

Unless abill_uk is willing to answer for anything in the original post then there is no point continuing.

After 5 pages of comments no firm facts & answers have emerged.

Close it already.

Matan 2010-08-15 22:36
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnel (Post 787381)
Maybe it's time to close this thread.

People here have asked legitimate questions and proof of abill_uk's claims - repeatedly.
Are you using this forum in write only mode?

Here's a proof that Maemo development stopped:

http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle...26ff191c309e5a

gerbick 2010-08-15 22:40
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Johnel, I respect you; however I have to disagree here. Proof has yet to be delivered on both sides. To end this thread properly would require proper information.

That's the best way to settle with somebody slinging FUD is to show definitive proof otherwise. And closing this thread, he'll pop up more... a FUD hydra basically.

smoku 2010-08-15 22:44
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matan (Post 787394)
Here's a proof that Maemo development stopped:

http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle...26ff191c309e5a
To be exact, this is the proof that Nokia stopped developing Maemo.
And this thread is about what community would do about this.

mmurfin87 2010-08-15 22:52
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
All ******** aside. There are only two real choices for members of this forum.

1) Choose the device you buy carefully next time.

2) Get a job at Nokia and infiltrate the ranks.

The n900's commercial lifespan is at an end. Just face it. Doesn't mean you can't still get good use out of it yourself.

EDIT:

Really? I said bull **** (one word) and it asterisked out the "bull" part of the word. What is the world coming to?

Matan 2010-08-15 22:52
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Considering that most of Maemo is closed, and Nokia told us that they won't open any of it, the community will do all it can - exactly nothing.

cricker 2010-08-15 22:54
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Ask not what your community can do for you, ask what you can do for your community.



Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 786996)
Now we know what has gone wrong in Nokia regarding Maemo and now we are told Meego is the future for Nokia.

Many people now know me and probably hate me sometimes because i am somewhat radical in my approach and can be very blunt with people (this community and various people make it so !) so now i am being totally neutral here.

After PR1.3 we are told support for Maemo stops from Nokia.

As the situation gets bleaker with absolutely many people leaving Nokia devices because of various reasons from lack of support to uncertainty and lack of apps, just where does this community fit in between Nokia and the problems they have created for us owners of the N900?.

Ok we have Nitdroid in prgression (looks very promising !) but as that is also uncertain it is not the answer right now, we know for sure Meego is the future but with the lack of source information from Nokia will it ever be possible to complete an OS that we all crave for with the working professional apps that we have became so familiar with from the past Nokia devices?.

If this community is to florish then it must come up with SOLID answers and up to now there simply is none at the moment (that should change in the future) so how can we get this community to work for us in the way we need it too?.

BIG question there and needs some careful thought and some good suggestions and answers.

Can there be more intergration between this community and Nokia in a more direct way? i feel there has to be a way to achieve this !.

How do we achieve as a working team (members, proggrammers etc) a solid future for the N900 with Meego?.

What exactly is needed to gain a fully adapted Meego for the N900 because right now there are more unsatisfied than satisfied owners so what can we do to make this a better community that people trust instead of the (pardon the expression) balony we are getting shafted with from Nokia creating many arguments on here which are leaving us very much discontented and miserable !!.

Can we have some REAL answers that do not mean speculation or could be or would be......... solid answers to the future of our device is VERY much needed here.

As a last note from me i want you before commenting to realise that i in fact own 5 N900's so for me it is a very serious situation.

I have done various things with the hardware but am not prepared to give out details untill we have a FULLY open drivers source and a solid Meego OS to support the minor wiring changes i have made to enable USB OTG, HOST mode among other mods.

Answers?.

smoku 2010-08-15 22:58
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matan (Post 787410)
Considering that most of Maemo is closed, and Nokia told us that they won't open any of it, the community will do all it can - exactly nothing.
Have you seen Mer?
This "nothing" is working pretty damn well. :D

Laughing Man 2010-08-15 23:00
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Maemo is done development wise. Why would they invest more resources towards developing (not bug fixes mind you) Maemo when there's Meego?

Matan 2010-08-15 23:01
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
According to the message, no more changes in hildon-desktop source by Nokia, therefore no bug fixes as well.

Laughing Man 2010-08-15 23:03
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
For hildon-desktop maybe, doesn't mean other parts of the Maemo 5 system.

cashclientel 2010-08-15 23:17
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysss (Post 787067)
And so, my fellow maemo fans - Ask not what the community can do for you...
Thanks very much - you beat me to that!

There is 6-12 months good support left in the N900 (from Nokia and the community). After that time people like you [abil] will probably be on new contracts and have new phones (w00t iphone 5!). The hardcore keen on the N900 can stay at their will and enjoy it. By the time the environment really begins to curtail for the N900 you'll be off it anyway and have something else. It will continue but certainly not in a way the majority will like (but a way the hardcore few will love for sure). My point is when it comes to this it won't matter as everyone will have new choices and the game will be different.

Mobile phone lifespan is 24 months tops - by then you've either broken it, lost it, or been given a new one by your network.

Matan 2010-08-15 23:20
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Why would they stop working on hildon-desktop, while working on the rest of the system? It makes no sense at all. Hildon-desktop is at the center of Maemo.

abill_uk 2010-08-15 23:20
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
I made this thread in a very valid attempt to get something concrete explained from anyone who was prepared to contribute but it has been destroyed by the usual renegades that are long standing members who will never allow anything negative to be said of this community and you need to look only at the posts that are attacking my questions and the people who thank the attacks, there you will see the people who will not allow anything negative as they all support Reggie and his crew.

I will answer a few questions from quotes on my opening post then move on to what i hope will derive some REAL answers.

"After PR1.3 we are told support for Maemo stops from Nokia"

Gerbick answered this as it does state in the Wiki which looking at it does appear to be the case as the statements from Nokia moving away from Maemo to Meego appearing all over the web.
This is very worrying when they also state they will not support Meego for the N900 as said and argued on this community many times now so there is the concern as un-biased people will agree.

"As the situation gets bleaker with absolutely many people leaving Nokia devices because of various reasons from lack of support to uncertainty and lack of apps, just where does this community fit in between Nokia and the problems they have created for us owners of the N900?."

This is common fact now as you will read on many threads within this community and is happening because of the now apparent lack of support for the N900 from Nokia.
The question i asked is a simple one if not used as a means for attack and is simple to understand !.....

"what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?"

Anything good most certainly has come from the members of this community as well as myself in terms of software AND hardware problems, with very little from Nokia which includes in my opinion a very badly structured OS called Maemo !.

I was probably as far as i can recollect the first to have the guts to open up my original N900 and look into the USB port problem and i came up with the answers many times in various threads how to put right this huge headache of a problem for thousands of N900 owners !!! and if you look at my previous posts you will see this contribution along with the reason the N900 is "quiet" due to the speaker being some way from the hole that emits the audio and the cure for it is within my previous posts.
I most certainly have contributed to this community with probably the answers to the most important hardware issues so far.
I have been treated with contempt by the likes of ysss and tswindell on this community and in my honest opinion as they are long standing members they are personal favourites for Reggie and his crew and this is the reason they get away with the attacking as they do ! THIS IS MY OPINION !!!.

Ok hard radical facts but this is my opinion and i stick by it.

javispedro

"so how can we get this community to work for us in the way we need it too?"
"Who is "this community"? Who is "us"? Why you seem to think these two are separate entities somehow?".

Why such silly questions?

Community as a team which is sometimes very apparent NOT working !.

Us is every single owner of an N900 and anything done within this community will ensure every owner will reap the benifits.

I neither asked for a war nor an argument as i simply stated my concerns regarding the N900 pointing out i actually own 5 of them.

The USB OTG mod as i have stated before is INCOMPLETE and invalidates the warranty for obvious reasons and the very reason i will not at this stage give out any details but i will state that anyone with the capabilites to read and understand schematics look at the N900 usb tranciever chip and it will become very apparent why OTG will never work.
There is also a HUGE thread about USB HOST that has never been completed and never to my knowledge proved to be working as this in my opinion is just not possible without the wiring as it is and has to be modified but having said this i am no software genius i am in fact a hardware expert so i wait with baited breath for some genius to overcome the hardware problem to even make HOST USB work !.

When the year is over and the warranty expires then at that point along with further work completed i will post everything i have done and not untill.

Can we PLEASE have some TEAMWORK and good spirit here for the community and get some real results for every N900 owner (us) as we are ALL want our device to work as a FLAGSHIP ! something i am sure everyone wants to happen.

Please stop the attacks the abuse and tswindell the swearing !!! it is NOT needed and not wanted.

Please allow some answers to come out here ok, this is my request.

Meego is the way Nokia are going and they most certainly have stated it will not be supported by them on the N900 so i want some answers here as everyone reading this thread as an owner also want i am sure.

NB Please try to realise i am indeed trying my best to boost this community and looking at my questions IF they are answered in a proper way that will indeed boost the community as it will be providing us with answers for the N900 when NOkia are not.
I am 90% glad this community exsists but spoilt by a few.

tswindell 2010-08-15 23:26
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
I may come across as quite impatient when it comes to abill_uk, but he's never contributed anything particularly worthwhile in any of his posts except pushing FUD, which is annoying because he seems to want to do the opposite. If he substantiated his claims, I'd be a more inclined to respect his opinions.

Anyhow, as far as this topic is concerned, I'll continue to develop the projects I'm working on and I'll continue to work on new projects I come up with. My projects where applicable will work on Maemo 5, MeeGo and Harmattan/MeeGo, and I will continue to support them on these platforms for as long as it is plausible to do so.

I wont support NITdroid however.

Laughing Man 2010-08-15 23:33
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matan (Post 787440)
Why would they stop working on hildon-desktop, while working on the rest of the system? It makes no sense at all. Hildon-desktop is at the center of Maemo.
It doesn't have to make sense considering Nokia considers maemo to be dead (or "finished" in their minds probably). And there are bugs that exist outside of hildon-desktop isn't there?

abill_uk 2010-08-15 23:34
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tswindell (Post 787445)
I may come across as quite impatient when it comes to abill_uk, but he's never contributed anything particularly worthwhile in any of his posts except pushing FUD, which is annoying because he seems to want to do the opposite. If he substantiated his claims, I'd be a more inclined to respect his opinions.

Anyhow, as far as this topic is concerned, I'll continue to develop the projects I'm working on and I'll continue to work on new projects I come up with. My projects where applicable will work on Maemo 5, MeeGo and Harmattan/MeeGo, and I will continue to support them on these platforms for as long as it is plausible to do so.

I wont support NITdroid however.
What is wrong with you man where do you get off huh.
I most certainly HAVE contributed to this community but you just refuse to see this !!!! try looking at my USB posts probably the one and only real flaw on the N900 from my past posts on this community and stop subjecting me and the community to your nonsence please !.

tswindell 2010-08-15 23:42
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 787441)
There is also a HUGE thread about USB HOST that has never been completed and never to my knowledge proved to be working as this in my opinion is just not possible without the wiring as it is and has to be modified but having said this i am no software genius i am in fact a hardware expert so i wait with baited breath for some genius to overcome the hardware problem to even make HOST USB work !.
You've been told countless times, several times by me personally, that USB Host mode has actually been working for months, with just a bit of kernel tinkering (software). If you'd read the more interesting parts of that thread you'd see it mentioned there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 787441)
When the year is over and the warranty expires then at that point along with further work completed i will post everything i have done and not untill.
What Year? I got my N900 in Febuary, people are still buying N900's now, you'll have to wait until Nokia actually stop selling the N900, then wait a year before you can be certain no one will void their warranty.

Or are you just waiting for your warranty to expire before you perform these mods you've devised?

abill_uk 2010-08-15 23:47
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
There is for sure a bad sense of realism on this community and it needs to be pointed put the FACTS regarding MAEMO because it is almost 100% certain Nokia have now made it public to CEASE work on Maemo and continue with Meego.

Can we please have this ironed out on here so every member of this community fully understands?.

festivalnut 2010-08-15 23:48
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
why do you ask what the community will do for you (us) and then say you've done something cool but no we cant see it??? why jump on the conspiracy bandwagon? if your threads are so so often met with apparent attacks, yet other people can converse freely perhaps you should do some root case analysis into the situation instead of crying fowl! and wait until who's warranties up? yours? i'm pretty sure urs is a goner my friend! mine walked out the minute i oc'd, several folk never got one to start with, infact given the nature of n900 as a platform i wouldn't be suprised if less than 50% of us had stayed within the constraints of a manufacturer warranty, so please feel free not to treat us like children but as people who can understand the risks of tampering with hardware internals.

NvyUs 2010-08-15 23:50
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Aint it 2 year warranty in EU ?

abill_uk 2010-08-15 23:52
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tswindell (Post 787456)
You've been told countless times, several times by me personally, that USB Host mode has actually been working for months, with just a bit of kernel tinkering (software). If you'd read the more interesting parts of that thread you'd see it mentioned there.



What Year? I got my N900 in Febuary, people are still buying N900's now, you'll have to wait until Nokia actually stop selling the N900, then wait a year before you can be certain no one will void their warranty.

Or are you just waiting for your warranty to expire before you perform these mods you've devised?
Prove it !!! what post where???.

You would have to wait like myself untill feb next year before your warranty runs out as we both got our devices same month.
USB OTG is NOT the topic of this thread so please stick to the topic please.

abill_uk 2010-08-15 23:56
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NvyUs (Post 787463)
Aint it 2 year warranty in EU ?
I cannot answer this one but as mine was bought from the states it is all very confusing.

c:drive 2010-08-15 23:57
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Thank u all for another Nice thread,Nobody win arguing with stupid people.;)

festivalnut 2010-08-15 23:58
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NvyUs (Post 787463)
Aint it 2 year warranty in EU ?
technically electrical goods should be fit for purpose for 5years, in reality no, standard one year manufacturer warranty unless you want a big fight or have a good lawyer.

tswindell 2010-08-15 23:58
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
I think it is on topic .. As the topic is what is the community doing for you. Seriously, you've not read the thread yourself and you are happy to guess at its' contents as you did earlier?

I will save you the trouble though as I'm feeling generous: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host

Now, hopefully you'll finally believe that your hardware mods are pointless ... Though, going from your previous history I'm not holding my breath.

abill_uk 2010-08-16 00:00
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by festivalnut (Post 787460)
why do you ask what the community will do for you (us) and then say you've done something cool but no we cant see it??? why jump on the conspiracy bandwagon? if your threads are so so often met with apparent attacks, yet other people can converse freely perhaps you should do some root case analysis into the situation instead of crying fowl! and wait until who's warranties up? yours? i'm pretty sure urs is a goner my friend! mine walked out the minute i oc'd, several folk never got one to start with, infact given the nature of n900 as a platform i wouldn't be suprised if less than 50% of us had stayed within the constraints of a manufacturer warranty, so please feel free not to treat us like children but as people who can understand the risks of tampering with hardware internals.
Because this is a community (or should be) and as an owner of N900 i am asking for support where Nokia have failed.
Do you have a problem with this?.

USB OTG is NOT the topic of this thread and as i am trying with great difficulty to derive some answers regarding the FUTURE of the N900, with posts like yours it is going nowhere right now.

NvyUs 2010-08-16 00:02
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Its EU law all goods sold in the Union must not fail in first 2 years any failure and the Seller is obliged to replace or repair
check out the sale of goods act

gabby131 2010-08-16 00:03
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
what the hell is this? now when i am using the search option with the keyword "n900" included, this kinda threads are showing up!!!! please! please! PLEASE! i just dont understand! call me whatever you want but i just dont understand!!!!

you got the n900, now you wish for updates, is there anything you can do if there is none?!! yes i know that sucks but this is not a very good idea to let the hell out of you!

festivalnut 2010-08-16 00:07
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 787472)
Because this is a community (or should be) and as an owner of N900 i am asking for support where Nokia have failed.
Do you have a problem with this?.

USB OTG is NOT the topic of this thread and as i am trying with great difficulty to derive some answers regarding the FUTURE of the N900, with posts like yours it is going nowhere right now.
okay abill, i didn't wanna let this slip but since ur trying so hard for all of us i'll let you in on a secret... ready? i've already got fully compliant meego running on my 17 n900's! and android 3.9 and ios4. once i travelled into the future the reverse engineering was a doddle! oh what? you want proof? i'm sorry i'm afraid if i did that the time paradox would collapse the universe so imll have to wait until someone else does it before i can show you. i'm sure you understand! :) in the mean time i'll belittle everyone else and demand more from them since they haven't contributed as much as i will have once someone else does it for me.

javispedro 2010-08-16 00:10
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 787441)
Why such silly questions?
It's not silly -- I'm truly interested in hearing your definition of community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 787441)
The USB OTG mod as i have stated before is INCOMPLETE and invalidates the warranty for obvious reasons and the very reason i will not at this stage give out any details but i will state that anyone with the capabilites to read and understand schematics look at the N900 usb tranciever chip and it will become very apparent why OTG will never work.
There is also a HUGE thread about USB HOST that has never been completed and never to my knowledge proved to be working as this in my opinion is just not possible without the wiring as it is and has to be modified but having said this i am no software genius i am in fact a hardware expert so i wait with baited breath for some genius to overcome the hardware problem to even make HOST USB work !.
Actually it's the exact opposite. A hardware mod alone will never work; there has to be some kernel and userspace work. Technical: How are you going to start pumping power to the gadget device for a start? Philosophical: if it can be entirely done in hardware, why didn't Nokia do it? etc.

sjgadsby 2010-08-16 00:10
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 787441)
what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
If ever I'm in Uusimaa, I'll eat a lingonberry for peace.

festivalnut 2010-08-16 00:10
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NvyUs (Post 787473)
Its EU law all goods sold in the Union must not fail in first 2 years any failure and the Seller is obliged to replace or repair
check out the sale of goods act
yeah but the guy in the shop usually doesn't agree with this, and for all the explaining you do the amount of listening on his part leads me to believe he could be abill. ;)

NvyUs 2010-08-16 00:13
Re: what is this community prepared to do for us regarding the N900?
 
check out you nokia warranty status here
http://www.nokia.co.uk/support/repair/repair/warranty


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