Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

Notice who makes all the money - the vast bulk of profits in the "PC industry" are made by MS. Whilst hardware increases in capability and plummets in price month after month, the cost of DOS/Windows keeps going up with each bug fix release. HP gets a huge chunk of its profits from selling ink, its printers/imaging division accounts for over 40% of its net profit for 2009. That is why Dell has got into the lucrative ink market by selling its own printers. Whilst hardware has long been commoditised and thus offer little to negative profits, MS through its ruthless interoperability (read, lack of) has managed to avoid commoditising Windows and hence makes as much or more profit than the rest of the PC industry combined.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

ok.... now everyone thinks that this is a battle between microsoft and apple in the pc world, and iphone vs android vs symbian in the smartphone world, well it will eventually lead to one thing, full open source is the future of the cyber world .
linux is what will take over the world, not google, not microsoft, and not apple thats for sure, linux will take over the pc world as its growing day by day in the underground, and it will take over the smartphone world with the full open source os maemo/meego .
beleive in open source, its what we do best, and its what will take over the world, long live maemo5/meego .

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

Must say it is very refreshing to get such good quality discussions going on in TMO. There has been too much white noise recently and I often forget why I come on this forum so often.

For that - thank you all.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

Well said.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

Oh come on, if PC hardware wasn't profitable no one would make it until prices rose significantly above break-even point to make it worthwhile.

Who benefited from commoditisation (ok, apart from MS)? Answer: you and I (as consumers) did, and more so if we don't run Windows.

Does the same answer apply to mobile devices? I suspect not and the main beneficiaries would be the operators, at least as long as most people insist on getting their devices subsidised and getting tied to one 24-month contract after another because they can't add and think it's cheaper that way :-/

Now, on the OS side there's not going to be a MS this time around. Android has already commoditised the market significantly and Nokia is in the process of doing exactly the same with both Symbian and MeeGo.

Why would they do that? Because the money now is in services (app stores, music stores, ads, LBS etc), and in order for them to be successful there they a) need to be on as many devices as possible (even if they didn't make them), and b) can't let anyone else (eg Google or Apple) corner the market.

Android has no place in that business model (unless you're Google of course). What does, for Nokia, is lots and lots of flashy "Ovi devices" of all flavours designed primarily to make you "consume" "content".

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

Friendly fire! Hold your fire!!

Lol that comment was by Ossi.

He's using the forum for his anger management therapy again.
What a pennypincher.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

How does the above...

Coincide with this?

Google does aim for Android to be the "Windows" of the mobile world, as that puts them in a position for providing services equal to MS. MeeGo/Symbian, by virtue of how Nokia is pushing them, cannot. And I suspect that might lead to greater adoption in the end, as OEMs decide to slowly migrate towards providing services of their own instead of only hardware.

The only "flashy Ovi devices" out there will be Nokia's.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

you have pretty bad spatial sense or then you think badly deformed heads are normal ones.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

bada will win all :D

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your sister's armpits!

...wait, are we having a discussion or a ranking contest? Sorry if I got confused, there. ;)

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

Only if they get on Verizon's BING deal with Microsoft. Then they'll finally have the Android-killer:

BADA-BING

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

here were a discussion before you started acting stupid.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

using Symbian and/or Maemo is like warming yourself in Mammoth stool. Both are pretty much the same, but one is sterile, and the other one will get you a nasty disease.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

I think you're missing a

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

*cough* Maemo *cough*

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

so if the name changes, harmattan isn't anymore maemo? care to be more spesific in which point it stopped being maemo and started being meego?

(the upgrade path from m5 to m6 had smaller probability to succeed than getting meego to n900 atm)

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

Yeah, if wishes were fishes... no one is going to nearly monopolise the market like MS managed, not Google, not Apple and not Nokia either.

Unless they screw something up badly, MeeGo compliance means everyone else's MeeGo devices are potential Ovi customers too.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

February 16th 2010 :)

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

Personally I think he was spot on, if a little short of the mark. The concept of a company nailing their colours to Android can also be to make profit, sell phones and get a brand going. A brand people want, because lets face it HTC have done it, Samsung have done it and Motorola were nearly done before Android came along.

Nokia might want to think about that as they continue to sit in their dark little places, silently playing with their many many phones and poor OS'. People, the ones with cash, the customers, want to spend money on cool stuff with apps, phone deals and hardware that works all the time. If Android works and it takes the heat away from a company who can then just make good hardware. Well then you get profit and your shareholders are happy, there is no customer back lash and you don't look like a failing mess of a company.

If that is a short term gain and long term loss then I think it is working for them. Maybe it is time for Nokia to pick one of the thigns they suck at, hardware or software and concentrate on that, because the N8 is pushed back for a better UI experience (youtube shows it to be sh*t) and the N900 sank. Not many of their high end phones are coming out the door with "Great" attached.

And now this morning there is an advert from 3 in the UK to win one of the "really exciting windows 7 phones", another OS for phone makers to buy into but one from a much larger company, MS, in terms of branding and customers. Very good news for customers, not very good for Nokia or it's shareholders. Afterall MS are all about the OS and learned the hard way (Vista, Winmo 6) what is good, they are not hardware manufacturers so that short term gain is looking all the brighter for those hardware makers out there who just do hardware.


Oh god what a horrible thought. People really want OVI as their app store?

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

I always wonder what would the state of hardware and software be if, say, OS/2 had it's way. Would hardware development be slower/more expensive ? Would being multiplatform be more important and tools more standardized if we did not have a single dominant MS/PS world ? Many things to ponder about over a beer :)

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

Android is not panacea to software or hardware that "works all the time." People tolerate bugs and glitches differently on different products and Nokia is at the moment kind of easy target. No misfortune is too small for making it good enough reason for all out lashing and endless rants, even if at the same time nobody gives a damn if problems of similar magnitude occur in other OS' and devices. To me it seems really stupid, but well then... who said human beings are rational beings?

Fact is that no hardware manufacturer can run development of Android to better suit their needs. It is stictly Google's turf and being run for Google's interests only. It may sell well for the moment, but it may also fail miserably in future and should such thing happen, all manufacturers can do is to find some other OS to suit their needs. Also, more the manufacturers use Android with little or no customizations to differentiate from each other, more fierce the competition between them will go. In the end it will lead to eroding margins, just as Mr. Vanjoki said. Of course, if Nokia adopted Android (and lost all possibilities for any uniqueness and independence) it might sell very well in the short run. They know how to make good hardware. Problem is that such move would completely disintegrate and undermine their software strategy which is all for Qt, Symbian and MeeGo. Of course Symbian might eventually get phased out at some point if there is absolutely no need for it, but I have my doubts about sense of such move.

As for N8, I would judge it only after final products actually shipped, got reviewed and of course, when I have actually tried it myself. So far hands on tests have been somewhat positive. For me it doesn't seem too bad for middle class smartphone. The flagship will be running MeeGo, which at the moment is hard to judge because of it's phase of development and lack of information. But we'll see...

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

exactly. I just read a review from iPhone 4 from finnish tech magazine. Rotation works really poorly and small glitches appear from time to time. I was amazed, how could it be even when "it just works"?

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

Tear apart the competition whilst never fixing your own problems. Not unique to Americans.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

@ossi: what glitches and poor rotation performance?

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

If you slowly rotate it, it can get a bit glitchy - all iOS devices show this behavior.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

Can you give me the search keywords? I did google search on 'iphone 4 rotation glitch' and 'glitchy' but didn't pull any articles about that at all.

I've also done a quick test, slowly rotating the iphone back n forth in safari but didn't see any unpredicted behaviors.

TIA.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

what then is maemo at this point? pissing into the wind?

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

And you are surprised by this? We have to start talking Diablo strategy again. ;)

No. Nokia wants OVI as an official app store for MeeGo devices.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

Now he's saying that the reason he resigned is because they didn't make him ceo. I cannot be alone in thinking that Nokia is much better off without this clown.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

I know they won't succeed. And if anything, their desire to use the platform to push Google services will be the thing that gets them displaced.

Depends entirely on how locked down the devices are, and if Nokia feels a need to reach out to non-Nokia buyers.

Of course, all I want is a device I can enable the community repos on, disable any and all DRM, and get a better device than what I have now.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

Get it? BADA-BING?? Huh? Get it?

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

Maybe... maybe not. Who will know now? Maybe there was a reason why he was passed over? Maybe he was groomed to be a little too similar to the last CEO and what they really need now is a change of direction, not more of the same?

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

What about supporting a doomed OS on your device? (maemo anyone?)

There is plenty of room for hardware innovation. Hell, I would just about sell my soul for a smartphone that would last a few days on battery.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

Could it be possible (yes it could b) to make Dalvik-VM running as a Meego process, just like we run MS-Windows programs in Linux under Wine?

NITroid, I guess, already has Dalvik-VM source code, so just porting that to run as a Meego process and emulate Android hardware under it.

Well, even lagging Java ME support in Meego is a mistake, I think, from Nokia, so they may not be interested to support Dalvik-programs either.

Nevertheless, if both Java ME and Dalvik programs could be run in Symbian and Meego, users would get lots of applications right from the start.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

That requires innovation on the silicon and battery front. You can get days on battery from the N900, only catch is that you can't use it at all, and that's pretty much true from any high-end device.

Possible? Yes. Useful? Debatable, since you won't have access to the Android Market.

Not that easy, not by a long shot.

Dalvik != Java. And a vendor could always add Java to MeeGo.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

There is just those much needed improvements to Java in Dalvik, which would be usefull (See "So, Why Dalvik?").

Actually I think they (Oracle, LinuxFoundation, JCP, ...?) should make new Java and Java ME versions which would have those; cow type shared memory for classes and separate sandbox for every process. The stack based bytecode should not be changed to register based for portability.

But when in the future we will have many cores in CPUs and more RAM also in mobile phones, Java's advantages compared to old programming languages will come forward more clearly. Just the ability to optimize in the run-time and divide work automatically to multiple cores will make C/C++ obsolete for everything else but for device drivers or for well defined libraries.

People writing applications to Dalvik are doing it in Java. Porting QtJambi to Dalvik and having same applications run in every platform would be amazing. I think Nokia would be mainly interested that people are writing Qt-programs.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

I have no idea, I just read the article. so probably a unit that was for press to be tested.

e: are you suggesting that if google search cannot find something, it simply doesn't exist?

but as per julmaherras point, those glitches are probably there but no-one complains about them because they think those are minor ones.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like peeing in your pants for warmth
 

Exactly. My point is that area is wide open to innovation. There's nothing preventing hardware manufacturers from spending some serious R&D in this area (and others) to gain a competitive advantage even though they're still using the same OS as their competitors.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

I can't really give you any leads other than a very small bit of experience with apps that follow full rotation. To be honest, it's perhaps one of the nit pickiest of nitpicks that anybody could point to - I've seen rotation glitches on my N900 that have had me damn near toss the ****ing thing across the wall.

And besides... just turn off rotation. It's lockable since iOS 4 as it is on the N900.

Now Android... the sensors on my Captivate (Samsung Galaxy S variant for AT&T) will rotate when I've tilted merely 15 degrees or so sometimes... and I've yet to find a way to globally ignore that.

Stop looking... I doubt anybody can/will produce a link that's worth a damn.

Re: Anssi Vanjoki says using Android is like pissing in your pants for warmth
 

For something that "works really poorly", with "small glitches that appears from time to time" I'd expect to find at least one link that talks about that from google.

I've also tried to recreate the problem on my end but I could not find any glitches, even minor ones. I would like to recreate the bug so I can observe it myself.