Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Hi Qim, nice to see you here ! Just a remark about a couple of points you made :

The first one is true, and the second one I agree with. But "silence" is not the same thing as "absence of answers". Yes, @nokia folks (mostly techies) do blog and participate and be helpful in the mailing lists, but that doesn't mean many long-standing questions (mostly non-technical) don't stay unanswered, especially by the people who *should* answer them (who maybe are not the same as those who speak to us).

I have seen many such questions posted to the maemo mailing lists (and posted a couple myself), which have actually been met by total silence, or at best by vague and reassuring answers, blog posts, roadmaps or declarations of intent, a lot of which are still unfulfilled six or twelve months later.

People ask their questions wherever they think they have a chance that someone will take notice : here, on the maemo lists, in comments to blog posts, on IRC, whatever. I have seen these just about everywhere : why are long-standing bugs not fixed ? will there be a BT audio profile ? will there be a BT PAN profile ? will there be a decent, non-proprietary SIP client ? will there be upgrades to the OS2007HE for the 770 ? And many more such, without an answer or a clear one.

Probably part of the reason is that often the people @nokia who see the questions don't have the answers, or maybe are not allowed to give them. This I totally understand, but then it means only two things : either there is *someone* who knows the answers and can give them -- then at times they should stand up and speak ; either there is not... 'nuff said.

So yes, "silence" is maybe not the right accusation, nor all of it ; but "noise" is not the right answer, nor all of it, either :-)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I just went and took a look.
Yes, this is the anti-iPhone in just every possible way.
Yes, this is a novel approach to hardware design (not the idea itself, but in the sense that it actually is bringing something to market).
Yes, this is the closest thing to date to "things done right" from an open-source enthusiast/hacker/geek's point of view.

I'm still not convinced I'll like the results, from a user's (or even power-user's) perspective, say in a year or two.

Take this gem in the iPhone/Neo1973 comparison chart : "Software can be created by normal users." Charmingly naive, no ?

Also some signatures in the active members are very reminiscent of the past Zaurus (and Linux on other PDAs) fragmentation and turf wars debacle, let's hope they do better here.

I do hope I'm totally wrong anyway -- but in a sort of altruistic way, because I'm too old to squint at a 640*480 2.8" screen :-)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Good points.

- ITT is indeed a source of feedback for Nokia. At least the hot topics are followed professionally, gathering the relevant points and forwarding them where appropriate. Then there is the people that follow ITT by own initiative, and eventually they take part in the discussion at their own risk.

- As for today I haven't connected texrat (or anybody else active here) with a Nokia name and role. Nor I have investigated. Therefore, I don't know and I can't evaluate about his/her success communicating internally.

- Yes, many times Nokia developers don't know or can't talk or even are not sure if they can talk about topics not under their own responsibility. Don't blame at them: they are professional developers putting a lot of compromise and passion beyond their contract and official objectives.

- Decision-making in Nokia is not always a simple process, as I guess it's not simple in any corporation (in fact is not simple in community projects either, but that's another topic). Just some (important) no-answers are caused directly by secrecy. Some no-answers correspond to no-decisions, and we prefer to keep silent while the decision is made (a process that sometimes might be long). Some no-answers happen because the question doesn't arrive to the person with the answer. Some no-answers happen because the answerer is pretty busy (sometimes fixing the issue questioned). We are trying to improve this, and the roadmap is our main tool.

- If you follow the process we have to answer. If we don't answer please insist once in our own channels. At least we should be able to tell you why we don't have an answer. Good questions deserve better answers.

- About gathering support for features (or bugs): never underestimate the voting feature at http://bugs.maemo.org . Mobilize your audience to vote on the features you want to push. Voting is easy for them. We do look at those numbers.

Just to clarify: I'm not a developer. My role is product manager of the maemo development platform. Improving the communication with developers and power users is one of my responsibilities. I'm the maintainer of http://maemo.org/intro/roadmap.html . I generally don't know the answers but I can help channeling questions to the right people.

As an example of the above:

- A2DP: http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=667
- PAN: http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1195
- OSS SIP client: dunno, please follow process and I'll investigate
- OS2007HE: http://maemo.org/news/view/1183720952.html

PS: we are in touch with OpenMoko (and OLPC) in the GNOME Mobile context and in other levels. They are cool and it is great that they exist. They help us being better, and we help them being as they are. However, since the organizations, business models and marketing strategies are totally different, comparing the hardware strategies is interesting... but that's it.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

:p

Just limit yourself to installing the finger applications. Otherwise, like you, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

So I'll probably hang on to both my N800 and my P910 till at least November (assuming the beefed-up Neo1973 comes out in October as promised) and then see which one goes in the pool.

You hear that, Nokia? You have until November to get your act together (the P910 already works...).

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Qgil's last post goes lightyears, IMO, toward addressing the number 1 concern here.

Maybe it needs to be stressed that most people here are adults. They know the world isn't black or white. They know that Nokia wil not always explain every minute detail, nor will the company give up trade secrets.

I daresay not one single person here expects that, nor do they expect Nokia employees to live in the forum. ;)

So IMO the best way to bridge this alleged gap is through periodic frank, honest dialog that recognizes the intelligence and earnestness of parties on both sides and dispenses with any disingenuous dialog at all. I am heartened by ragnar and Qgil's posts. Just those few posts are worth more, IMO, than 90% of the blathering here... mine most certainly included.

I can't provide a boilerplate example of what improved communications would look like. I think that has to be hashed out, and I think it should. But the outreach this weekend was a helluva start, and proved me wrong in at least one way. I'd eagerly welcome more of that. :D

Thanks guys.

EDIT: and please keep in mind-- sometimes a simple "we can't answer that yet, hang on" is enough. ANything beats a no-answer. Again: this isn't black and white. We have an infinite palette to work with. ;)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I wish Nokia could participate in this forum just as the TiVo, Slim Devices and Infrant guys (to name but three) participate in their forums to help nurture the community surrounding their products. I'm pretty sure their high profile (ie. web forum rather than low profile mailing list) involvement has resulted in a happier community and increased sales of devices. Many casual end users don't want to read or post to mailing lists and it's amazing how good the vibe can be when end users are able to communicate directly with the people that are behind their product.

While I appreciate a nokia.com member can't give away company secrets, I see little reason why a more informed and better connected Nokian can't assist members here with some of the issues that are raised through this forum. Many of us try to get other members to raise bugs or vote on existing bugs, but beyond that there is often little we can do to help as we often don't know all the answers! :)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Milhouse, note that your 3 examples belong to different categories: http://www.tivocommunity.com/ is an independent site while Slim Devices and Infrant forums are official. About the TiVo example, is that participation about user support or something else like unveiling future enhancements and discussing roadmapping stuff?

I still think the right place to have Nokia speakers talking about new stuff must be in Nokia/maemo spaces. If we come to ITT first then maemo followers will complain, and we can't perform well in both spaces (and if we do a third might come and ask to be "supported" as well).

We are going to open a web/forum interface to the maemo mailing lists, so everybody is happy. For instance, this is something that we haven't commented in maemo yet. :cool:

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Yes, Mil, I've also seen forums where the companies were VERY heavily involved... and some (like Dell's and Creative's) where the purchasers were utterly ignored for the most part, and treated rudely when they were acknowledged. The latter doesn't help business. ;)

I'm not sure why ragnar and Qgil feel they have to insert caveats about forum participation levels. That's a very narrow way of responding to a very broad request for occasional feedback/info/greetings/etc. ITT doesn't even have to be the venue for such dispensations-- posters here, as we all know, are very adept at sniffing out releases from wherever and ferrying them back here. I know I'm beating a dead horse, but the critical point here seems to be overlooked: a periodic "we are still alive!!!" on some official or semi-official outlet.

Also, as everyone here may know there has been some grumbling over reactions to bugs and feature requests at bugzilla. I've seen cases where user input was shut down pretty swift and hard, sometimes before the respondent really understood the post. That's not good. The customer is always right. ;)

EDIT: Qgil beat me to posting. Hopefully mine answers his points effectively. If not I am always willing to work toward understanding.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Correct, the TiVo community web site is a more direct comparison but the point about all three remains the same - high levels of direct communication between end users and manufacturer/developer. On the TiVo site, TiVoPony is the Product Marketing Manager and way back when TiVo first started (circa 1999) he was the "evangelist" for the product, assisting with queries and problems but also promoting the community and bridging the void between end user and vendor. That community is now huge, and on the whole it's a happy one and I think their policy to evangelise the product through such a direct communication medium enabled the community to grow as rapidly as it did.

The Slim Devices and Infrant forums are slightly different, but it's rare that you find the product designer or CEO chipping into conversations as you do on the Slim Devices forum! :) Infrant is a very helpful site where the Infrant employees always try to give answers when users ask questions, even if it's "I don't know" or "I can't discuss that".

Announcements will filter down to the forum eventually as there are plenty of people here who read both maemo mailing lists, however I think the forum caters to a different audience than the mailing lists. This site is where your end users hang out, your paying customers... TiVo understood this! :) It might be tough to strike a balance between mailing list and forum, but I'm sure it should be possible.

Hopefully enough members of this forum will join up and post in the maemo users forum/mailing list, but beware of fragmentation - I still don't think it would be wise to ignore this place!

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Hehe, I can imagine that could be bad for business! :)

And of course, poor customer service and a poor repair experience can also be bad for business, because that's what a number of us have endured when dealing with Nokia regarding 770 and N800s, and we often have little idea who to contact in order to help us. Quite often the only accurate advice new users get is when they visit _this_ site, and I gave up asking questions on the Nokia support forum where the N800 is sidelined in a "other devices" sub section with almost zero traffic of any substance.

If other Internet Tablet devices are launched in future (eg. Intel) and become supported by this forum then I wouldn't be surprised to see an Intel evangelist (or two) posting here from time to time. This site needs a Nokia evangelist - which does, I think, bring this thread full circle. ;)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

My work is done. :D

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Textrat, although I haven't always agreed on the verbiage you chose in some of your posts, I do applaud your efforts to advocate. However, it is not unimaginable Nokia's stance on your participation as such. In fact I would have been surprised if a major corporation acted any differently.

After spending millions of dollars crafting and promoting the message they want to get across, they usually want as much control over it as possible.

Now here is the rub for N800 users and perhaps qgil can provide some insight...

What is Nokia's N800 message?

Who is the pro-typical user or targeted market?

How many units have been produced?

What were the projections?

Did the N770 meet it's sales forecasts?

What features and benefits were added to the N800 that would improve it's prospects of attaining its sales goals?


Published information from Nokia that answers these questions would go a long way toward quelling the speculation and rumors found in these and other forums. For those of us whose first Nokia purchase was the N800 these answers would relieve the anxiety over wondering if Nokia even had a plan for its future in the first place. I mean, what does Nokia tell its stockholders?

As far as bugzilla goes. It, itself has a dang bug in its web site security certificate. I only found this out after realizing the links I saved to the bug I did report were no longer valid. Bugzilla moved to a new address and left no redirects. (Major time suckage BTW, and I wonder how many don't bother using bugzilla because of this.)

And finally, an example of how little or no information can lead to speculation...

The bug I reported in February was closed in March with this comment,
Since this was not addressed in the latest release (4.2007.26-8), should I assume that;

a. They just forgot.
b. There is an additional future release that will address this.
or
c. They changed their minds.

What ever the case, lack of information leads to negative speculation.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

It wasn't the entire company, of course, but one unnamed individual who challenged my desire to reach out more to this community.

One.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Can I just clear up this AbiWord bit once and for all? Nokia's INdT out of Brasil actually ported AbiWord to Maemo/Hildon themselves, and contributed the patch back. They also contributed the initial ODT support to AbiWord, for which we are grateful. I'm also told that they contributed the build of 2.4.6 available on the AbiSource site.

Now, that brings us to today. Everybody using AbiWord on the N800 is using a build for the 770, unless someone has a build from Aleksandyr (sp?), which is not the official, upstream hildon port. As such, since the N800 Bora maemo is ABI-incompatible (cannot depend on functions being callable in the same way) with Mistral/770, certain functions in the fully Hildonized AbiWord don't work properly: for instance, it will crash on N800 if the tablet wakes back up.

I am hoping that most of these issues can be resolved with a recompile. AbiWord is maintained by a small group of volunteer hackers, and while developers do occasionally get sponsored to work on it, no such activity that I know of has taken place on the Maemo port in a while. I have been with the community for several years, and am currently a Google Summer of Code student, working on the AbiCollab facility. While it's not a part of my project description, I do plan to at least attempt to get AbiCollab running on the N800 as well. In addition, a forum member here did the "right thing" and reported the DOC import problem upstream - in our bugzilla. One of our developers committed a possible fix, and as soon as I can, I will be testing that out. I'm working to get all the information and sources (specifically the debian packaging files) needed to get AbiWord working properly on the N800 together, however, until I hear back from several people, it can't happen yet, and because the folks I am asking aren't being funded to work on AbiWord on Maemo, I can't guarantee when they'll get back to me.

Now, back to the positives. The embedded environment (like N800, OLPC, etc) is important to AbiWord, and so improvements across all embedded platforms are on their way. The official Hildonization still exists and should still be buildable - I just need to get proper versions of the dependencies. We do care, and I am doing what I can to get an N800 build out there for you and for me, but at this point we're volunteers standing on the shoulders of paid giants. Right now, Google requires that my priority be AbiCollab, but I'll try to sneak in some Maemo/Nokia time in there, since I want to use Abi on my N800 just as much as you do - it's part of why I got it.

For those of you turned off by the length of this post (writing a lot is an annoying habit of mine), here's the condensed version. Nokia/INdT did a lot for AbiWord in the past, and we are grateful. The N800 issues with AbiWord are not evidence of some great fundamental flaw in AbiWord, but merely a caveat of AbiWord being so well integrated with Maemo that the upgrade from Mistral to Bora breaks it. As a volunteer, I'm working to get AbiWord built properly for the N800, and will keep an eye on it to ensure it is available in the future, preferably (I don't see why not) on both the 770 and N800 platforms.

Please be nice to the other AbiWord folks - I'm newer and so have more patience. If you want to help, file useful bug reports at http://bugzilla.abisource.com , or contribute source and binary packages of the AbiWord dependencies to me (just PM).

Thanks for your patience and understanding! I want AbiWord to rock on N800, I just need some time!

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Thank you! The fact remains that reviews, for example, of the iPhone mention that you can read Word docs in it. Some of the reviews of the N800 mention that you can't do that. Abiword is one of the last hopes for solving that problem. This problem is a deal killer for many prospective purchasers of the N800. Word must be the main doc handler for what, 90% of the computer-using public? (WAG) Unless Nokia is not interested in selling N800s, this problem should be something Nokia itself worries about.

Fortunately, most purchasers don't realize that the N800 is totally Word incompatible. If there was a little notice that all purchasers of the N800 automatically got saying that it doesn't work with Word docs, my guess is that sales of the N800 would drop to about 20% of what they are now, which I think isn't all that big anyway.

I am saying this not to be a malcontent, because I love my N800, but because frank discussion is the traditional remedy against dumb corporations.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

This thread is very interesting. The key issue is imo:

ITs were launched to surf on internet but they re so versatile and ''evolutive'' that they're expected to become PDA and smartphone. And naturally solve the main issues ( PAN)

People on this forum know it is possible. to Nokia, it may cause internal competition, at least at the resource allocation level.

It doesn't happen fast enough from the end-users point of view, given the competition,and this forum and this thread are the echo of this anxiety.

However we re seing a good reaction. let's see...

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I don't care what anybody says, the eventual trend is for a do everything device that fits in your pocket. Hands up, all those who, given the choice of buying a phone + internet browser + pim + camera + computer and another device that was just a phone and another device that was just an internet device, how many of you would go for separate phones and internet browsers? I only have so many pockets, so I want one mp3 player +camera + phone + web browser + etc. That has to be the wave of the future.

In a few years, wireless will be everywhere, so the N800 is perfectly positioned to be the all-in-one cheap device. A free Skype is bound to be more popular than a $40 a month ATT account.

So Nokia is sitting in the catbird seat (whatever that is!) if it only realizes it. "Tomorrow's Internet today" could be its motto, unless it's already taken.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Seriously, no. I made I comparison that's perfectly valid from my point of view, and all you do is say it's seriously flawed (thank you very much) - without going any further into it. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to think of your statements.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

First, Tomorrow s Internet Today stands for T.I.T. I don't know if this is smart ;-)

Second: Although it is agreed a all-in-one device is THE solution, it raises issues:

- The minimum size of the screen to browse comfortably and efficiently is the Nokia IT screen size. I ve been comparing E90 (top of the range in Nokia), HTC devices etc, no way, I won't surf on anything smaller.

- No we won't carry our N800 (no matter how much we love them) anywhere anytime. We won't take it to the beach, to nighclub, to ski, etc etc. It s too big, and it s too fragile. the rest, yes.

So, however we need the IT to do absolutely everything, we still need small cell phones. They could be a module pairing with other devices (laptops, IT, etc).

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Let's not forget the (IMHO) most important point: Nokia launched an Internet Tablet and meant for it to be OSS and community-driven (they made that abundantly clear). The community, in turn, has made it clear to Nokia that they want the Internet Tablet to be more than just a couch-surfer. Isn't it now up to Nokia to follow the community's lead?

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Does it worry you that you're not sure what to think of my statements?

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Yes, agreed, and it s seems that it s when the community starts to be very p-o about lack of feedback on the urgeing issues that things seem to move. well at least on this forum.
The problem might be that the community will always lead in this kind of OSS environment. That can be scary for the number 1 cellphone giant, litterally owning Symbian. Nokia ships one million phones a day....
OTOH, Linux environment may be the future.
IMHO, this is essentially an interface problem between the community and Nokia.

How would a car manufacturer do if its design/maufacture/market flow was "Open Source"?

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

- Do not hesitate letting Nokia know about your preferred examples of corporations dealing with the communities around their products. Thanks for the TiVo info. We can improve, we can learn from others.

- We need to improve our dialog with the community, agreed. We have got some progress with the developers, but this is not enough to solve the equation of the pure end users. We will discuss this internally (after July).

- "What is Nokia's N800 message?" http://nokia.com/n800 - or what was the question?

- "Who is the pro-typical user or targeted market?" Mmm something like people interested in new technologies, willing to be always online and willing to experiment new ways of using the Internet, the social web, etc. But I'm not a marketing/sales guy.

- "How many units have been produced?" Don't know / Can't answer.

- "What were the projections?" Don't know / Can't answer.

- "Did the N770 meet it's sales forecasts?" Don't know / Can't answer.

- "What features and benefits were added to the N800 that would improve it's prospects of attaining its sales goals?" It's not about "prospects of attaining sales goals" because the sales goals of the 770 and the N800 are different. The 770 opened a totally new product line, with all the risks, opportunities and the unknown. The N800 was released integrating the 770 experience and looking for a wider market within the Nseries context. We keep learning and accumulating experience.

- As time goes and the Internet Tablet project evolves, the context of the tablets involve more customers, developers and Nokia partnerships. It also implies a maturization of the platform, even if it is still not consolidated as i.e. the Linux desktop. Besides, Nokia learned a lesson the day the development support (different from the customer support) for the 770 was discontinued. N800 owners benefit from all this.

- http://bugs.maemo.org was reopened to public access few days ago, see http://maemo.org/news/view/1183519122.html

- Aapo Makela couldn't answer on 2007-03-30 in which release was his fix applied. Last month we announced maemo 4.0 Chinook and the following releases Diablo and Elephanta. You can ask back in your bug report and the developer should be able to tell you in which relase the fix is implemented.

- INdT is not part of Nokia, it's an independent organization funded by Nokia. Even if we discuss and coordinate efforts, they are a different entity.

- Word documents are important in computer usage but are not as relevant from an Internet centric point of view. That has been the rationale until now. If you notice as for today there is not even Windows media support, and they are an essential part of nowadays Internet use. I'd say one day the IT OS will support Word documents, but th are other priorities first. Follow the process if you want to push that feature over our plans, please.

- Yes, everybody wants the magic device that does everything. We focus our attention on the parts we consider essential, and we try not to block the community about all the rest. See for instance the Java support, they are getting organized and I bet at some point they will achieve the level of support most users need.

- "Isn't it now up to Nokia to follow the community's lead?" What about a co-leadership. Also think about this: most of the IT OS is based on open source software developed completely upstream, and we are aligned to the GNOME Mobile project, the Linux kernel team, the Debian project... Isn't this a way to follow the community? Please don't think exclusively on th "community of customers", specially when referring to open source.

- Nokia is not scared about the OSS community and its willingness to lead. Nokia wants to be a good citizen in this community and wants to make the most of the combined potential of energies, for the benefit of both sides (if they are "sides").

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Many thanks for the feedback....

True you announced maemo 4.0 Chinook and the following releases Diablo and Elephanta. But, it wasn't clear until now whether they were for the N800 or a completely new tablet.

And my point is made. A little feedback to the community goes a long way. :)

BTW, what ever happened to the covers? Will they ever be produced?

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I disagree on the 'wont carry the n800' - I've taken mine camping, nightclubbing, renaissance fairing, to the beach - it is not big, heavy or very fragile. Short of hammering the screen with something, I think it is quite durable. Before I got the silicone skin on mine, it took a number of tumbles from me shirt pocket to the deck flawlessly.

I think the 'community' is always going to be clamoring for 'more! more!' , and rightfully so, but development is in the hands of those who know how to do it. I wish I knew how. I explored it a bit and was impressed by all the tutorials and such that are available for maemo developers. So I don't think they are resisting, it is just a matter of time and programmers availability. Open source means Nokia is not on the hook for everything, methinks.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Not to the extent that I couldn't sleep or such ... It's just not helpful for further communication (which this forum is supposed to be all about).

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Hey Karel and Benny: recalibrate your verbal trebuchets. You're launching past each other and the rest of us are getting covered in something brown and stinky.

:p

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

/me hands Texrat a clean towel and opens the window. Sorry, I'll try not to do it next time ;)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

The N800 case should be ready in 2-3 WEEKS (edited), perhaps a little more. Answered a couple of days ago at http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//ma...ly/005750.html

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Thanks Quim. By the way, that's 2-3 weeks in case anyone is wondering! :)

I did mention it here after your announcement on the mailing list. :D

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

In my humble opinion the current road is not easy: Nokia is creating a new category of products for the mainstream public and is doing it in a pioneering way, combining own development with a deep collaboration with several open source projects. Others are following now this strategy and they seem to be doing some steps pretty well. But Nokia started earlier and now has two devices, an IT OS, the maemo development platform and several applications out there, in the real world. And here we are, working hard to bring more stuff.

We try to do our best overall. We are far from perfect but we are not taking any easy road either.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I'm done.

(Note: we can't all achieve your high standards, as in your eloquent exchanges with Euchreprof). :rolleyes:

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Of course I don't blame them, that's what I said in my first post ; it's good that they participate, but they should not be the only ones.
...even for ITOS2006 bugs ? :-)
Qim, I believe that most reasonable people over here are not asking for more than that. Knowing that they are being listened to usually leads people to express themselves better than when they are just venting off. This thread has already taken a new tack after your intervention ; if you, or someone like you, were to pop in like this at regular intervals (like once a month), it would probably set a lot of things straight.
Hah, news posted almost as I was typing my own post, I hadn't seen it... Thanks for the pointer, that's very good news!
(I could care less about Skype, that's why I'd prefer a good SIP client :-)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

I can understand that for the N800, with its backwards design. But *my* 770 certainly goes with me everywhere. It's been riding 40 km a day at the back of a bike since december 2005, and gone skiing, and to the beach, etc. (I'm long done with nightclubs though :-)

I do hope that with the N900 Nokia will return to a sturdy design like the 770 and its cover. Then it's not too big, not too heavy, and not fragile...

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Just yesterday I picked up my 770 for the first time in about 5 months and I was struck by how slim, small and light it felt compared to my N800. I used to take my 770 with me everywhere, the case/cover afforded it excellent protection as well as providing useful offline/online functionality - still an important consideration for some of us! I now take my N800 to fewer places because it lacks the protection and it's bulkier than the 770 - the N800 is far less trouser pocket friendly.

The "N900" can learn a lot from the 770, and far less from the N800.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Proof the system works. ;)

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

If you check the record, you'll see that was mostly one-sided, Karel. I quit responding to his stuff early on-- everyone ELSE volleyed with him. You guys lectured me anyway, AFTER I quit exchanging with him. Kinda silly. I'm still waiting for the realization to hit a few of you. What's the holdup?

Besides, I was kidding you two. Benny got that. :p

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

TIT, Tommorw's Internet Today! Not bad. I can't quite come up with the perfect concept, but something like

TIT: Suck on this, Internet users! Followed of course by a picture of the N800.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Qim, I don't think anyone is saying that all the systems work you have been doing on Linux, Maemo, Hildon, and user interfaces was easy. We who saw it from the start, with ITOS2005 onwards, had the ABI change in 2006, then the API incompatibilities in 2007, more or less understood the need for them, grumbled, and accepted them.

But this is just the infrastructure, the foundation. Something users take for granted, however hard it may have been to create. They also mostly take for granted that any pocketable, computer-like device will carry PIM software, and no amount of repeating the "it's not a PDA" mantra will change that.

People here have the most trouble accepting that, perhaps because they know that while you actually have been pioneering a new domain and creating new things, the part that Nokia is adamantly refusing to do is definitely NOT innovative, and is in fact so mundane that it's understandable they look at it as the "easy" part.

Ever since the 1990's, pocketable devices like the Psions and Palms and others have had PIM software.

Heck, Psion in 1997 with the Series5 was also "creating a new category of products for the mainstream public and doing it in a pioneering way". They wrote their own 32-bit OS, EPOC32 (which later became Symbian). And they did it alone. And it could edit Word docs and Excel sheets and had an agenda that could sync with Outlook. And yes, it also had a browser and email software :-)

Sharp did the same with Linux some years ago on the Zaurus line, so it's not like it's out of reach.

If Nokia wanted to, it would be in an even easier position today : Abiword and Gnumeric are known to run on the tablets, a little corporate incentive could turn them into properly Hildonized tools. Nokia is also one of the main creators and proponents of SyncML in its phones ; a calendar on the tablet with a SyncML plugin would let it synchronize with just about anything, including Outlook and Google...

Of course, it could be even simpler to just port Java :-)

Since 2005, we have seen many one-man efforts produce useful, sometimes innovative tools for maemo : maemo mapper, mplayer, abiword, gnumeric, minimo, GPE... Some projects are lively and well integrated, some obviously have resource problems and can't keep up ; some seem to lie fallow after a promising start, like Opened-hand's Dates and the elusive native SIP client...

From the outside it certainly seems like the right nudge at the right time from Nokia could have turned either of these projects from prototype hacks to usable tools for the end user - especially the stupid one who doesn't understand that he *doesn't* need PIM software :-)

One can't help feeling there are a lot of lost opportunities here, and also a contradiction with the "deep collaboration with open source projects" manifesto. Especially as it is clear that in the meantime, resources are also consumed in partnerships like Navicore, Skype et al.

Re: Tablet Advocacy
 

Quim, thanks again for your participation. i finally found your June 1 slide show... >> http://www.slideshare.net/gofull/58688/1

Well done, It answers a lot.