Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Though there may be licensing issues when using cal.h ("Copyright (C) 2004-2008 Nokia. All rights reserved.") outside Fremantle/N900.

I stand corrected (silly me, I was looking for a libcal package, but it's actually in libdsme0).

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

AKA the same old story.

Drop support for an "old" device and push people to buy a new one = more money for Nokia.

What does this say about Nokia's policy/organisation/motivation? You have to kick their behind multiple times to get things looked at? Or is it a perseverance test - if you're stubborn enough to complete all the steps then maybe they'll reward you by looking at your request?

It's probably because the code for these apps are atrocious, which is why they are not that good, and hence they want to keep the crappy code secret ;)

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Interesting, any examples, links?

As lma says, Red Hat is notorious for for buying closed source software with the express intention of turning them into open source (and hence benefiting their competitors).

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Iirc, one nokia engineer claimed the dmse is still closed because they are embarrassed about its quality...

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Yeah I'd heard that about a few packages.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

So... status of Maemo: EMBARASSING?

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Check your copy of the "Linux Applications" disk.

And I understand that, as lma mentioned exactly the piece of software I had in mind, which has been opensourced.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

I assume this refers to Openmoko? While there are many reasons that project failed commercially (mostly boiling down to "not deep enough pockets"), none of them are that the software was too open. Are those guys saying that it would have been more successful with a proprietary layer, or that a completely open MeeGo product is doomed to failure? With no disrespect meant, isn't it the job of the open source advocate to correct these misconceptions?

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Openmoko bombed because it was only 2g in a world going 3g. Had they dropped the mobile radio fully i suspect it could have gone differently...

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

There was OpenMoko and there were/are others device makers putting all the stress in software freedom - with no remarkable impact in the mobile market whatsoever. But what is more important: do you have a more convincing business model for a company like Nokia? Taking into account that there are competitors out there that would clearly benefit from a 100% free & reusable UX experience in Nokia products.

You just pushed a misconception yourself, assuming that Nokia business planners have such misconceptions about OpenMoko. :)

The job of an open source advocate inside a company is to help the company's objectives by pushing open source software and open development when/where it matters.

The Nokia N900 is still the most open handset you can buy from a major vendor, and the MeeGo platform is shaping up as the most open mobile platform any mobile vendor can use. Things could be still better from the point of view of software freedom... However, I honestly believe that the many open source advocates inside Nokia are achieving something useful for the free software community - and the company hiring them.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Whoa.. qgil being ironic? OpenMoko failed because it was stressing software freedom, meanwhile 770/N8x0/N900 were sold with OPEN SOURCE as the selling point. That's very cute. That aside, can you tell me how you're pushing open source software and open development when/where it matters? With particular interest in elaborating on "where it matters", please.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

I have to disagree, there has been a huge impact in the last 5 years or so. Before the 770 came along the conversation about new devices was mostly "can this thing be somehow hacked to run Linux?", then almost overnight it changed to "does it come with Linux?" and now we have reached the point of asking "how open is the Linux distribution it comes with?". Even on the hardware side, we had all these chip vendors coming to Dublin and falling over themselves to tell us how open they are, now. Nokia itself has played a big part in making this shift happen and that's certainly something to be proud of, but at the same time projects like Openmoko, Qi and, closer to home, Mer were vital to show that we are not quite "there" yet and what to strive for.

Hm, I'm not quite sure what the current one is, but I assume it involves selling devices (so make some already, I've been wanting to give you money for a new shiny pocket computer since 2008!) and services/apps (fix the store! I did buy an app (Sygic mobile maps) while I had the borrowed N900, but I had to wait for them to get fed up with waiting for Ovi and publish it themselves first).

Also, don't know what the overall market for such a thing is but personally I wouldn't mind paying extra for longer-term support.

Well, the UX (by which I mean Hildon, in case we're not talking about the same thing) has been fairly open so far. The low-level stuff (bme, libcal etc) is useless on non-Nokia hardware. I concede that things like control panel & statusbar applets might be useful to a competitor, but even those will have at least one open reference implementation in MeeGo. That leaves the closed user apps, which are, and forgive me for being blunt, not that good. I already commented on the calendar earlier on this thread, contacts is similarly afflicted and don't even get me started on Ovi maps (suffice to say that I consider the money I sent Sygic's way very well spent, even though it was only for a couple of months).

Touché :-) Still, I don't think I've ever heard of something failing because it was too open. The opposite, sure (eg, only last week McNealy acknowledged that not opening Solaris sooner hurt Sun).

No arguments there.

Agreed. This was one of the most inspiring things I've seen (and I'm sure there are other, perhaps less public cases). It would have been even better if he didn't have to sacrifice his holidays to work on that though.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

[QUOTE=sivang;891635
4) if this did not work, contact (-mail) the product manager, I'm guessing this is the person assigned on the bug report, but can please somebody confirm that?[/QUOTE]

At least in bugs.maemo.org no, as there are not many real developers around. Default assignee often is "nobody@maemo.org".

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Building a competitive and free Linux platform for the mobile industry, focusing in features and readiness from Kernel to Qt and including open frameworks for key applications such as browser, media player, calendar, contacts, email, office.

Sure, but the progress you report is mostly about the free platform layer, while my comment was about the free apps layer.

Look, the success of free software has a lot to do with distribution of efforts. Nokia is already investing a lot in the development of free software components based on standard Linux and free desktop technologies available to anybody. You can keep trying to convince Nokia to increase the scope to the apps layer. On the other hand, you could invest these energies to encourage and contribute to other projects from other players developing free software apps with the aim of getting them to commercial levels of quality and user interest. There is no lack of interesting projects to get involved, and you can always start your own.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

How about more than just open frameworks, open-source? As a customer, I don't like the idea of open-source platforms being held hostage and obsoleted by closed-minded, self-serving corporate think. I'm clearly going to prefer the platform that serves me and remain with that brand. In the long run, you'll find that benefits the brand far better too, especially when I talk about gadgets to friends, family, customers and even the strangers on my cross-country trips. I guarantee you at LEAST half of the dozen or so curious people that asked me about my Galaxy Tab on the train rides are probably going to buy one based on their needs and what they saw that it could do and knowing full well they'll be able to get support and able to buy it in a store like I did. I guarantee you nobody saw me using an N900 the entire trip. Word of mouth carries weight, especially when Nokia does little to promote their own products and does little to provide customers the incentive to do it for them. The very LEAST Nokia could do is open things up so that the whole architecture can be maintained by the community. Where are all the open-source friendly components, for example?

I don't think that anybody cares so much about the "free apps layer" if they're hampered by a far more aggressively locked up "closed platform layer". "Wait," you might say. "I said FREE platform layer," you might also add. I might cough with a slight laugh at that. "Let's meet it halfway, where the fact is that the label is far more likely to be accurate: open-core, not open-source."

You're still holding the platform hostage if everything that is open (say, applications) REQUIRES a closed bunch of blobs as part of the architecture (say, drivers or communication bus, etc.). Near as I can tell, you sound like you're bragging a lot about openness but for comparison, you really have no bragging rights over several open OS's--even Android. For that comparison, I've got Cyanogen on my Droid--compiled from source with very few closed blobs, a lot like Nokia's latest offerings--only there's FAR fewer closed OS components and NO dependencies on closed apps at all in this community made image. PLUS--I have native HID support for bluetooth (WHOO! Mouse pointer! Keyboard! Joystick!), latest compiled Linux kernel, bug fixes and security fixes from the community galore all without waiting for Verizon, Motorola, etc. How's the community around the N900 feeling lately about updates and security? MeeGo is about the only GOOD answer to that I've seen and that's in cooperation with Intel. Nokia has been pathetic about addressing bugfixes and communicating with the community over the years for Maemo, nevermind giving them the ability and assistance to replace closed components with open ones and the ability to update to the Linux kernel or even fix security or bug issues.

Nokia has invested a lot, sure, but have they delivered on that investment? Anything we can see? Or are you going to claim that the sacrifice was opening up a trickle at a time while adding a mountain of closed-source is a sacrifice we should all appreciate? How about Nokia participate in investing in promoting more open-source projects INSTEAD of their closed-source garbage that are a pain to remove without breaking things (remember open-core?).

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Ah, ok. I'm biased toward the lower layers obviously. I mean, if I don't like the Nokia media player or browser I can simply ignore them and use one or more of many already available alternatives instead, or even port an open alternative if one doesn't already exist. For me at least this is more of a quality rather than openness thing - the same applies to the open apps, like the PDF & RSS readers, text editor, email client etc.

On the other hand, battery charging or boot-related things? Not a chance.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

just don't forget the hacks needed to get past Nokia's insistance on their media player being the one true media player (for example).

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

And that's a HUUUGE part of what I'm trying to get at. In this light, all the puffery over how valuable Nokia has been to open-source is highly dubious.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Sure, but isn't the Galaxy Tab another example of a commercial product with a mix of open and closed source bringing some differentiation?

Are you aware of what is open and what is closed in the Galaxy Tab? Please share. Are you asking Samsung to open more components of the product you own as much as you are asking here? Just curious.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

he might not be asking for them to open up other sources because they have assured that, they will not let their tablet limping year from now without any support. maybe he is confident with them that they will provide any security loopholes that may arise on their bundled application (flash updated on multiple platform for security reasons).
could be said that samsung tablet is main stream and N900 is not, what justifies for a product being mainstream or not? the nokia n900 was sold in-stores with its posters patched on the corporate store windows similar to samsung tablet. carriers are offering subsidized prices for samsung tablet as vodafone did with N900. N900 can be ordered online through nokia itself BUT not through official samsung website, you will have to buy from their patners (or is it available now, last time i checked it was not). so how can we tell N900 was not targeted as a mainstream device if all the channels were used to sell N900 as any other mainstream device would. well yes if Nokia were only selling N900 to the developers making it absolutely non-mainstream (hint: google ion), would have been a different story.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

The difference being that android based phones, and android itself in general, is not being promoted as open-this/open-that.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

also, android is designed to have parts of replaced with "ease", thanks to its "intent" system and such. Yes i do not like how Google handles the market issue (or their closed door development cycle), but the basic design of android is flexible and open to adaption (catching even Google off guard).

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

We can argue about degree of openess or open vs. closed, but here's what I think most consumers are going to care about in the future (as somedude points out, I'm not as worried about open if I'm getting regular updates, which may also apply to danramos)

Look at that, dan has devices from two different manufacturers, he didn't have to wait for a big firmware update, and he is running the latest version of Google Maps on both for FREE. In fact, I even updated my nitdroid install last night with the new 5.0 version, right from the Marketplace, no fuss, no muss. Didn't even cross my mind that I wouldn't be able to. Didn't need to worry about my interpretation of marketing speak vs the Google interpretation.

If MeeGo (on Nokia or any other manufacturer) ends up being UI with a bunch of closed default apps (not easily removed/replaced), that are infrequently updated (or not updated to the latest version on a newer device), I think it's easy to see which way the mass public will go.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

This is a big problem for Android right now, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Does the new Google Maps run on the SE X10? What about Angry Birds? The N900 had updates; the Galaxy Tab has updates.

The openness - which is being discussed here - affects what happens when those updates stop. And they do stop. For every device; no matter how open it is.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

I don't expect updates forever on a given device. Nor do I expect all updates to work the same across multiple devices, or even work on all devices.

I don't know if the new maps version works on the X10. From this link
So I suspect that it may work on the X10 (not all features).

I guess I'm looking at openness slightly differently than some. For instance, I can buy an HTC G1 on ebay (an older device than the N900) for relatively cheap. Rooted, I can install 2.2 on it, and presumably get the latest versions of Google Maps, Gmail, etc (core apps) running on it (albeit perhaps not all features, and slowly). I also believe there are other phones out there I can do the same on.

Now, with Nokia, MeeGo, and the N900. I'm likely to get a community supported "upgrade" to MeeGo on the N900 (much like 2.2 on the G1). Except, I'm not likely to get Nokia core apps (maps, email, etc) on the N900 running MeeGo am I?

So, despite any degree of openness of the underlying software, it seems to me that Google (and certain manufacturers) are more open to the community supporting the latest greatest on older devices, thus extending their useful life. Whereas Nokia would prefer to sell me a new device, the N9 (being Step 1 of x) to get the latest greatest.

Is this going to be a problem for Google now and in the future? Sure, it will. Will they come up with a solution? Perhaps. Right now, Android looks like a better bet for my next device than MeeGo does. Heck, right now, Nitdroid looks more likely to me, to extend the life of my N900 than MeeGo does.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Consumers in general don't care specifically about open vs closed. They have proven that with their wallets. So let's move past that part.

They (we) DO care about product support of a reasonable degree and timeline. Open source CAN make a difference there, IF companies are willing to continuously open closed parts (that are continuously replaced by newer/faster/better/shinier closed parts).

The rate of technological change SHOULD be helping there-- advances supersede protected technology at so fast a rate that patents in some areas are rendered almost meaningless. Businesses, Nokia included, have not kept up. BUT-- Nokia is catching the greatest flack here because they have dared to try.

The problem, as we have discussed here ad nauseum, is that while evangelists like Quim see and preach this new reality, far too many executives are afraid of it. Yes, that includes many in Nokia. They need to be enlightened.

Harping at Nokia here may be cathartic, but getting the gripes closer to decision makers is more productive. That means moving the podium out of THIS environment and as close to Nokia as possible. Forum Nokia is a good place, and so are certain blogs. Funny, though-- when I blog on this subject (policy change at Nokia, et al) there's usually little enagagement there... whereas there are thousands of comments here.

So let's get this subject out of the maemo.org darkness and into the light. We can see that griping here has improved nothing... and Quim can only carry so much of the burden.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

I am aware! The point I'm making is precisely that: So if you're both going to be doing the same things, and I see so many more attractive qualities in Android and so much wasted open opportunities in Maemo to have done better, then what ARE you doing to be better? Really?

For the record, yes. I harass the Google and Samsung folks about it too. :) Ironically, I've seen far more opened and less tethered dependencies on closed applications from that camp lately. What are you doing to convince me you're doing better?

This, by far, was the best grok of exactly what I've been saying. Now that I've rooted, hell--I don't even use Google's Launcher (the desktop manager) anymore--I went and got LauncherPro which is a FAR, far better application.. and it broke NOTHING for me replacing the desktop with another app. I've also tried out ADWLauncher and others. All without anything complaining. Can anybody say the same for Maemo's desktop? I've also was able to run ad-blockers and remove crapware that was forced on me--all without any hiccups. I feel free to replace any portion of the OS without feeling like it'll damage everything else. I've never had that much freedom on my Maemo OS's. Why?? Android doesn't even advertise itself on openness while Maemo clearly does but feels so much more constricted.

This is true to a point. They care when they can see the difference and it hampers their ownership over a device. NOBODY would, for example, buy a car where the hood/bonnet is locked except to only the dealer/manufacturer. There would be a HUGE uproar if manufacturers started to do this as a trend, even. The general public didn't recognize or know the difference with electronics for a long time, but they started to feel it once DRM creeped in and started to effect them in ways they didn't appreciate (like when they bought an iPod years ago, then were soured to find out their iTunes songs couldn't be used on anything else later...meanwhile DRM-less formats like mp3's were able to play everywhere). Similarly, closed-source software and a dependency on it for your architecture fosters the same situation.

Dared to try...what? What several others have done and Google did better? I'm not sure I get what Nokia has done differently. When I first got into Maemo,I thought they were really interested in open-source, but the truth is that they were far more interested in claiming to be open-source while picking out closed-source components and tried their best to make sure you never uninstalled the Nokia and partner software (RealAudio, Skype, Gizmo..). Various users brag about how you don't need to root the N900 to do various things, but you still need to get root access enabled to remove this crapware and you STILL can't remove or replace various simple piece of software (i.e. media player) without causing harm to the system. Is that really worthy of a "they dared to try?" It seems like a dishonest and confused attempt to claim openness at best and an outright scam to mislead open-source interested customers at the worst.

I'm not sure that he's been effective--though I'm not saying that it's for lack of trying. I am saying that while an engineer can try to promote it, perhaps the smarter solution is to have a LEGAL open-source evangelist onboard. That is, an open-source lawyer who can promote it from the legal side so that the business people can feel less nervous about making such decisions to open up. Far too often, the executives in large companies feel that they need to "reign in" the technology people and it would help to have a lawyer to point out that there is, or isn't, a risk to implementing these things.

Wait... isn't this talk.maemo.org? TALK... MAEMO....? Aren't we talking about Maemo? What's the council about again? Please refresh me, here. It STILL boggles me that Nokia would have anything to do with these forums (including funding them) if they aren't going to use them to listen and collaborate with users and developers. Perhaps they're not interested. More reason to let people know about that and complain here, since this is where people will assume you talk about Maemo. We do talk about Maemo in particular here, right?

Yes, Google Maps runs on the X10. You just don't get the spiffy features that require an accelerated 3D graphics architecture. Yes, Angry Birds will run--Angry Birds runs even on non-3D accelerated hardware. :P More importantly, though, you can't expect all software to work (or work with all features) on devices that don't have the hardware for it... but at least you'll get a large majority of apps that do. This isn't too different from being hobbled on the desktop OS's with various types of platform and capabilities limited by the hardware you have on your system. I rather LIKE that kind of assurance. ...unlike the artificial lack of support I'd experienced from the Nokia Maemo experience. Anyone still remember Wayfinder? I paid for it. I had bought the car kit! The software still works GREAT... I didn't need or expect any more upgrades (although that would have been a plus), but it's unforgivable to not be supported with updated maps. At LEAST give me the option to buy updated maps. Nope! Go out and buy yourself an N900. Naw--forget that, I'm far happier with Google Maps, thanks. I don't even need to buy it AND it's always up-to-date. Night and day difference in experiences.

Far sooner for some than others.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Texrat-

Does your blog get as many daily views as TMO? I'll hazard a guess that not as many people read your blog as read TMO. Hence the seemingly disproportionate responses. And dare I say that this isn't some random forum on the web, Nokia is certainly aware of it's existence. Doesn't mean it's the best place to carry on these debates, but surely not an unexpected place.

I'll disagree that Nokia is catching flack for what they have dared to do, but for what they have failed to do.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

agreed with the "he Galaxy Tab another example of a commercial product with a mix of open and closed source", but as well, they do have bugfixes and support on those closed parts. i don't mind if my phone/computer have closed source drivers, if the support is comming.
one of ideas of open-source is that anyone can use it and support it, where u can apply patches with fixes and new features(or forks at all). and if one who started, there would be other people to continue and support.
on other hand, cosed drivers are problematic, as u company saying how to use it and if the should improve/fix something or not. and it can be disaster if they stop supporting it(n900 hello).
So u can't say - n900 is dev phone and powerful tool to make apps and improvements, while u keep parts closed and u can't say it's ready for end user as u don't do it yourself.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Oh, I'm sure that the myriad of patched hildon-desktops around here modifying virtually any behaviour do not really exist...

I think you are getting this completely wrong. What people and even qgil himself bragged about is the easness by which people can root their own N900s, even in a Nokia-approved fashion. On your average Android phone the process is insanely more complicated, and the device vendor will usually try to stop you from doing it. After rooting, you're free to replace whatever you want of the system. The N900 even has a myriad of alternatives operating systems you can run on it (remember they replace _everyting_), including some other devices propietary ones. How many Android phones run something other than Android?

Thank Wayfinder for going nearly bankrupt and being bought!

Btw, Google Maps looks like is a closed source application to me.


Please, please don't confuse lack of support with openness.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Oh, patches! Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure. I'm sure there are a myriad of hildon replacements. Oh, I'm sure.

Bought by whom?

For certain, it is. I'm also reasonably certain that this closed-source app continues to be supported, updated and improved even on older devices, unlike Wayfinder and OviMaps. Also, I'm very certain you can uninstall it or replace it with another mapping app (Verizon's replaced it with Bing Maps on several Android units, for example) and not break the OS. What precisely was your point in this particular conversation?

I didn't. I did, however, commit the awful sin of claiming far more freedom for the open-source portions from vendor lock-in by closed portions in Android than in Maemo. Gasp! Scandal!

No, I'm pretty certain I've seen it bandied about many times that you need to root Android to do things you don't even need to root an N900 to do. :P Also, on both my Droid and my Samsung Galaxy Tab, the process to root the phone is no more complicated than to install a rooting app (say, EasyRoot or z4root) and tap the ROOT button. :P Hardly more difficult than it is on the N900 to install a root access application. And don't forget that many ROM images built from source replace EVERYTHING as well, like CyanogenMod, Ultimate Droid, etc.

I'll concede the point that I can't think of handsets that run any other operating systems other than Android, but then it's not to say that they couldn't--it is fair to say that there doesn't appear to be a lot of interest in trying to. If the firmware has been replaced with custom firmware (as I did with my Droid) you REALLY have full control over what OS you can have loaded and you COULD try put MeeGo on there if you really wanted to but I don't see the XDA forums ablaze with interest to do so.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Surely it can't be confused in this context.

Android is more open than Maemo.

Maemo has a lot more "lack of support" than Android.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Some offtopic
I´m getting rather bored and angry because people think that if you have Android then you are able to install whatever custom firmware-images and do rooting. So kind request: When you explain how supported Android is by Google and community then please add exact brand and model of your device pretty please.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

I've repeated it many times, but I'll state it more clearly again: I'm currently using CyanogenMod 6.1.1, and had also tried out MANY, MANY other ROM image distributions of Android like Ultimate Droid, Ultimate Droid eXtreme (although I did use this one for a long time too... it was pretty nicely themed, but CyanogenMod feels cleaner and runs better on my battery), Bugless Beast (which was excellent, but far too sparse for my liking) and Lithium Mod. Added to this are the plethora of custom compiled kernels you can interchange with these ROM images (ChevyNo1, LiQuID FroZeN YoGurT, SnkBitten, etc.) and then all the theme packs, tweaks, hacks and other ROM modifiers that I'd played with. Is that good enough for ya?

I would like you to note that I have also repeated many times across many posts and threads that I have a Motorola Droid (A855, original flagship of the Droid army) and a Samsung Galaxy Tab (SCH-I800 Verizon variant, sadly the worst of the Tabs but still quite good). No, I won't share their serial numbers, in case you were going to start asking. :P

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Thanks. Put your devices to your signature. I might have seen them in some thread but currently I see here and in many other forums people talking like that device with Android means that you are able to install all the stuff under sun to it just because well Android. IMO important thing is to always mention with that OS the device to what you are referring to.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

The public profile for ITT/TMO has always had a field specifically for that (Handhelds) and mine has always has listed my devices. Although, I must thank you for reminding me about it so that I can add my Galaxy Tab to the list of devices.

Edit: I went in and added it to my signature anyway. Hope that helps. :)

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Many of the points I made in my previous post were apparently misunderstood (probably partly my fault). I'll clarify later.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

The original navigation software for 770/N800 was done by Navicore (a Finnish company) that was bought by Wayfinder (a Swedish company) in July 2007.

Wayfinder was then bought by Vodafone in 2008.

And Vodafone discontinued the Wayfinder navigation service in April 2010:
http://access.wayfinder.com/

I would not blame Nokia for the lack of updates/support for Wayfinder.

Of course Google and Nokia changed the game by offering their Maps & navigation software and services for free. Hard to compete with that.

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

Ah.. well, that makes some sense.

No, wait. It doesn't.

That leads me to wonder why Nokia bothered to buy Gate5 back in 2006 during the 770's era, then buy NavTec in 2007 during the N800's era, and lead us via our ROM image bundled GPS software into the middle of this wasteland?

Re: [Council] State of Maemo, Q32010.2
 

This is certainly true, and in fact a bit too easy for my taste (all it takes is a few seconds to install a package from extras, so effectively the only security you have is the device lock code).

I'm more than a little concerned about what level of control the owner will be "allowed" to have on future devices however. So far the information coming out of Nokia/MeeGo re: platform security is only about the mechanism rather than the policy, and thus there is a lot of uncertainty.

Eg, what trust level will the community repository be given? Will community apps be able to access addressbook data, determine the device's location, create VPN tunnels, make VoIP calls, install additional bluetooth profiles and so on? How much of the factory-installed stuff will still work, and how much of our own data can we still access if we switch to "open" mode? For the time being I'm taking it as granted that, in "closed" mode, the owner won't be able to do things like install u-boot, IPv6 or USB host mode support, defang cherry, or even debug stuff that breaks, which doesn't sound like something I personally would want to use. But if "open" mode effectively means you have to forego the vendor differentiation and run the reference MeeGo code what's the point of buying such a device in the first place?