Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Excuse me, but how come this thread's title haven't been changed yet? :confused:

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Sure it is, as long as the definition of "supercharged" includes (off the top of my head) a much smaller screen, a useless stand, terrible battery life, greatly reduced bluetooth protocol support, wifi that may not work (in the country the device was made for and was sold in) if there's no SIM installed, even fewer physical keys, crippled input methods etc etc (did anyone manage to hack USB OtG and/or host yet?)

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

It appears on every spec page of the N900. No native MMS, no 3G video calls, no individual ringtone per contact, no text2speech engine for reading text messages or announcing callers' names, OS only designed for landscape orientation, no voice dialling, ... I mean: Who would ever buy this as a phone except for a few geeks that appreciate SSH and the ability to hack their devices more than all these missing features you expect even from the cheapest phones today? What the phone is, what it can do and what it can't, is a very clear statement of who it's designed for.

I will never understand those who bought it even though they clearly expected at least some of those missing features and now claim they'd been "betrayed" or whatever... It's them who made a mistake, not Nokia.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Isn't it nice to find out that while others got fully supported os's, updates and customer care, you got 4 of 5?

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Even for a second any of what you said wasnt in discussion.
What was in discussion was Nokia's maketing strategy along with dis/misinformation and/or cutting the lifeline significantly quicker then current smartphone industry standard.

Just to give this statement some validity:
My first encounter with the n900 was in Mediamrkt near Zell Am See, Austria, in April this year.
In this electronic oriented store the N900 was AGRESSIVLY being promoted. offcourse it was doing so in the cellurars department.
Imagine the N900 having his own stand, the first device anyone getting in this department see. If it is a niche device then Nokia should have never promoted it like this. Offcourse the salesman quated just about every spec there is. You must admit, that 6 months ago the N900 hw sounded pretty impressive. Think of all of those who fell into this "honey trap".
Why do you think there are so many trolls around opening so many new threads about their disatisfaction from this product?
There is NOTHING about the n900 marketing that screams of being a niche device.
Personally i never used MMS or voice calling before. I use skype over 3g if i really need it(i have a solid data plan).

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

touché

And not to mention the quality of the screen. The n810 doesn't scratch with normal stylus use (or any use for that matter); the n900 is embarrassingly easy to scratch.

But I disagree about WiFi. Here in the U.S., with or without a SIM card, the n900 WiFi is robust and fast, where my n800 and n810 are occasionally fickle.

Since I could care less about physical keyboards, don't get my started on virtual keyboards. Just don't, or I might start to cry.

And yes, that's the false advertising, they shouldn't have been able to call it a computer without some form of USB host mode. Not a big deal to me, but I know it's huge for plenty.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

There's good support from Nokia for this product, given it's a niche device that was meant only for a small customer base. I got my last firmware update only recently. I could go to any Nokia service point once my N900 breaks. It works as advertised - but will not get major OS updates (whatever they'll name them, Maemo6 or MeeGo) just as we knew it wouldn't.

What I wrote above seems to be heavily disputed. There are lots of users here who are under the bizarre impression that Nokia actually promised the N900 would eventually be their flagship device, that it would eventually get all those missing features via OS upgrades, and who are not being p'ssed because the realize how wrong they were. So yes, it's worth pointing out in this context not only how obvious it was that this a device that will live only until the day they launch the N9, but also how obvious it was that it wasn't a mass market device. People do deny it.

Really? Did he? Strange. A salesman wanted to sell this device? Come on. Complain to Media Markt if they didn't inform you correctly about what the device doesn and what it doesn't. - In the end, though, it's nobody else's fault than yours if you made a wrong decision.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

to my estimate thats nokia's responsablity.
if they admit that they made a device which is not for everyone, they should at least try to make sure it'll be sold to the correct population.

Maybe they should've make a limited release like Google is doing with Chrome. I dont know. All I know is that there are a decent amount of unhappy n900 users out there.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Are you serious, dude?

I just browsed around, and I went to iPhone's spec page. Guess what, they don't mention MMS capability there. Nor portrait/landscape orientation, text 2 speech engine, etc.

You don't make clear conclusions just by things that were not mentioned.Nokia can't hide behind that.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

I just found a way to clarify what i wanted to say:

a N900 mustnt be sold next to an iphone.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Does Apple state anywhere in their marketing that "if you want to have full control over your device you bought, if you want to use the device independently of any software we provide, then the iPhone is probably not for you"?

Does Nokia state anywhere in their marketing for the N8 that "if you just want to make phone calls and send text messages, if you prefer a numeric keypad and never take pictures with your phone, let alone videos, the N8 may not be for you"?

Does your local car dealer shoo you away with huge posters saying that "if you don't have a drivers license, want to protect the environment by using public transport and can't afford the insurance, those cars aren't for you"?

It's always up to the consumer to buy the product that's right for him. The only thing a vendor has to do is to make sure such a product is available. (In the good old times, before the 1950s or 1960s, salespeople in shops would make sure they'd understand your demands and sell you exactly what would make you happy. Those days are gone. At least for those who buy at Media Markt. You're on your own and have to live with your decisions.)

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Huh? really?!
Lets go with the general population, ok?
What works for them? an Iphone? Yes! an N900? No!
About the N8, its being marketed as a camera phone!
and also, if a John Doe who will never take a single picture with his phone, would he be disappointed?! NO! his N8 will send texts and answer/make phone calls just the same as any other phone!

About your car example, oh well, thats common knowledge.

I could give you another example, it is as Blockbuster renting porn right next to their romantic flicks! NOT the same population cut!
hence they shouldnt be side by side, just like iphone and n900.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

lol you guys

nokia already has your $$$ - they couldnt care less what is written here

just like iPhone - the N900 has its own religious caste - why you would waste your time arguing logic with a person of faith is beyond me

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Yeah, it defaults to the US regulatory domain when there's no SIM. It's a pain in the neck in Europe if you want to use it in tablet mode (to preserve battery, or when you're roaming etc) where there are loads of APs on channels 12 & 13 but it just won't see them.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Awfully strong assertion you're making there. My experience has been that the N900 is actually quite appealing to the "general population". It's people who are slightly more experienced and set in their ways ("Handhelds must have portrait!!") who seem to have real trouble.

Fix the more glaring bugs and Maemo 5 actually has a lot of "general population" appeal.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

@benny: no one is saying the customer does not play a part in selecting the product that they think is right for them... .but it's certainly in the vendor's own interest to market their devices to their intended audience to increase their customer's satisfaction.

With Apple and Android's customer satsifaction ratings and continued marketshare growth numbers, I don't see them having this particular problem as Nokia does (marketshare growth slowdown in general and shrinkage in higher end devices in particular).

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Good read. Such a sadistic world we live in; more proof that source just wants to be free, yet my apathy is still intact. I need to look at that...

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Not implying, I'm stating outright.

I am doing graphic design (Inkscape), office work (OpenOffice), blogging (Wordpress web client), twittering, forum posting, emailing and many of the usual day-to-day activities I might otherwise do on my Windows 7 desktop or Windows XP laptop. MeeGo 1.1 on the Lenovo ideapad that Intel was kind enough to provide to MeeGo Conference attendees.

It's funny (and irritating) to see pundits refer to MeeGo as "vaporware" when I'm running it every day with no more trouble than I would get on any mature OS...

EDIT: as pycage says a few posts later here, there are distinctions between MeeGo for netbook and MeeGo for handset. However part of my gripe is that slams against MeeGo tend to be overly broad, as if no version was usable.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

...and an equal number of naysayers who are damned determined to convince "fanboys" that they aren't really enjoying their device of choice. Or if they are, that they're wrong to do so.

And around and around we go.

These arguments are idiotic and indeed a waste of time. And they never seem to end.

O the irony!

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Since this is a Maemo fourm, MeeGo is associated with the handset version, not the netbook. It's really running quite well on a netbook, simply because it's just a rebranded MobLin.
MeeGo handset however is still far from being usable for every day.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Even all of palm device got update to 2.0

what about maemo 5 , possible to get update to meego officially ?

What i Expect is just make maemo fast as iphone 2g when i start

programs or play games (some games is less laggy in iphone 2g)

and i can play multitouch's require games with N900 keyboard

Thanks you for developers who make N900 to be more than phone

,Thanks for everyone in maemo.org that give me knowledge

and Thanks to nokia that teach me how it feel when i got betrayed

Ps. Sorry for bad language , I'm Just stupid Thai user .

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Hi Texrat,
I wish I would have been at the conference. Working with the
ideapad makes surely more fun than meego on the n900.
Do you know if there are other ways for developer to
get devices, like the N900 device program?

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

apealing yes, for day-to-day use, not so much.

i'll say this, if i look at the general population want and what the n900 offers, i cant see much overlap between the two.
If we take out the obvious pros of the device(messging,web) you'r left with some pretty mediocre software(media player,calander,modest).
add to the recipe lack of apps/games,the no so user-friendly UI and you got something that almost every phone does better.

I am assuming that a John Doe doesnt care about multitasking nor installing android/ubuntu nor any feature that we know the n900 doesnt sport(i.e mms).

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

After 26 pages of "Nokia finishes Maemo5 support" there isn't one shred of official proof that support is ending.. Since this has turned another complaint topic figured I'd toss in my 2 cents worth, The N900 may not be perfect for all that use it but you have to admit it does do what most of it documentation says it does and granted it has a few hiccups, which need to be address.. but overall if you failed to do your home work or bought the phone because you thought it was cool, then shame on you.for those that took their time you had some idea what you were getting into.. so honestly the only ones that really should be complaining are the folks with the usb or hardware faults or if you where one of the very very rare folks that had a nokia employee grab you by the arm and twisted it and buy this phone..if not then the only one you can blame is you...

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Some of us are hard at work on a MeeGo device program: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Offi...device_program

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Correct, sorry I didn't make the distinction clear. Thanks pycage.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

All moot points. As a customer purchasing a consumer gadget, you are not in any way or form required to do an investigation of anything but the "as is". This means trying the device in the shop, and when purchasing on the net, you have a right to send the device back if you don't like it.

Of course this also means that if you purchase a device based on hopes and rumors of what it may become, you are nothing but a sorry ***, or you may get lucky. With Nokia the chances are you will get lucky, especially if you get a popular device. The N900 is already old, but still very special.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

I'm not 'required' to be a smart shopper, but if I'm not it's my bad. Neither Nokia or any other company is 'required' to make me one. Ya can't believe advertising claims, gotta take personal responsibility go beyond 'as is'.

Special yes. Nothing else like it. Old not really. I got mine pretty early and it's still just over a year old. But this stuff is moving SO fast devices are considered 'old' sometimes even before they're released. I just got my wife a HTC G2, on pre-order mind you, on Sept 27th and already it's considered an 'old' model. It's only been in stores a month and already the techno nuts act like it's a dinosaur.

Point is, Nokia has supported the N900 with updates for a year, about what I expected when I got it. That's about as long as my old G1 Android phone was supported. With things changing so fast and devices obsolete in not years or months, but weeks, it's probably no longer realistic to expect companies to support such devices much more than a year.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Btw. has it ever come to your mind that people who are trying to point out why persons x argument is illogical might not be happy with their n900(or nokia). Understanding Nokia's business strategy doesn't mean that you agree on them or like them.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Yes, but the thing is that "support" meaning updates and upgrades to the OS and software is only a bonus, nothing more. It is something you may or may not get. What you pay for is what you get there and then when you pay for it. Lifetime navigation only means your license for the navigation software will never expire, it does not mean that you will get lifetime updates of maps and core navigation software and so on. If Nokia in their advertisement promised that the N900 could be used with Facebook, and for some reason it couldn't, that is something else and Nokia would have to make it work.

The N900 is very functional. It does everything you would expect from a 'mobile computer', and certainly it does everything Nokia said it would do in their advertisements. From a consumer point of view the N900 is a perfect device, there is no need for more updates. Updates makes all device more fun, but if you cry for updates just for the fun of updating, and demand updates for other reasons than fixing nonfunctional issues, you are a *****. But as I said, with Nokia you more often than not will get lucky. The 5800 still receives updates, more than two years after the launch.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

If you as a consumer begin to expect a product to EOSL one year after release then you're rewarding Nokia's bad behavior. Just because you have disposable income doesn't everyone can or even wants to buy a new phone that quickly.

When it comes to support, it is not unreasonable to have a company continue to provide adequate support at least ONE year AFTER the the follow-on product has released. Yes, this may seem strange and unreasonable to you, but it is normal for companies to continue to provide support for products even after the follow-on has released. NEVER have I heard it to be standard practice to EOSL a product before its follow-on has arrived. Now, you can argue the one year after, but at minimum you move into sustaining level support the day the follow-on arrives.

YES, this is NORMAL.

The assumption you also have is that the N900 was "feature complete" when it released and we know that it was beta at release. That's fine, but that doesn't mean you don't finish what you start. The fact that you would suggest that Nokia's behavior of moving quickly to sustaining level support at PR 1.3 with no more support updates 1 year after release has more to do with your desire to buy a new toy than most who desire to receive adequate support for the life of the product.

So let's say you don't like my sustaining level support after the follow-on (In this case the N9) releases. Let's take another example. Most cellphone plans are two years.

What does that mean? Carriers and manufactures expect a consumer to keep a phone for AT LEAST 2 years.

Now, some plans are one and some are three, but I think two years is a good median. If consumers are expected to be on contract with a phone for 2 years, it is not unreasonable for the handset manufacturer to continue to bring updates to products in that two year window as well. This is an industry standard.

The fact of the matter is that you can't move into "sustaining level support" until you STOP selling a product, then starts the final 2 year that a consumer is EXPECTED to be on contract and the handset is ALSO expected to continue to provide support.

One year to support a device is simply wrong. I hope you don't work for Nokia. Nokia needs consumer advocates that want the best for the customer and not those that try to squeeze the bottom line when its convenient for them to be lazy.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Nonsense! In Europe the average person gets a new phone every 9-15 months. And keep in mind, this is the average. A typical phone geek gets a new phone every month or even more often. This doesn't mean that some devices are kept longer than others (N900 vs iPhone for instance :) ).

The contract enslavement is a US phenomenon, a small percentage of the total users and not at all representative of the average user.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Can someone change the bloody title?

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Let's think this through.

Does everyone buy the phone the day it releases? NO. The N900 is still actively being sold. Should support end now? NO. If today someone starts a 2 year contract in US or Europe or wherever, what expectations should there be for Nokia? I think the expectations are that they should support it for the life of the user's contract. If they stopped selling it tomorrow, then support should end two years after tomorrow.

BTW, your assertion that Vodaphone, Orange and T-Mobile don't have 2 year contracts outside the US is not true. Contracts are not specific to the US. Google it. The fact that the US leans heavily toward contracts does not mean contracts aren't used in other parts of the world.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

Well, it's not Nokias fault that you are stupid/cheap enough to get sucked into a 2 year contract. Besides, if you are a phone enthusiast, why in heavens name would you do such a thing? I mean, if you purchase work phones for your employees - yes a two year plan makes sense in some circumstances if you get a good offer, but for private use? Why? It makes no sense at all, you give away all your benefits as a customer of both the phone and the carrier.

Anyway, my main point is that support != updates. Nokia will support the N900 for a long time, but that does not necessarily mean more updates of the OS.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

I wonder what the problem is, besides Nokia being content with the state of the OS as it is now.

PR 1.3 is a mature OS (as mature as Nokia is able to do). The hildon desktop stuff and some other things are open source and the community can and will continue to improve it now that Nokia stopped messing with it (they already stopped that in August).
The phone works as advertised and the N900 is a good phone for everyday's use.
Nokia's continued patch support for the N900 wouldn't change a thing with the Ovi store situation.
There are lots of applications available in the maemo-extras repository, and this is not going to stop soon.
The N900 is equipped with Qt 4.7 (which not even Symbian has right now). The only two consumer devices with Qt 4.7 today are the N900 and the WeTab (since 2 days ago) AFAIK. When doing cross-device development for MeeGo, developers can treat the N900 as MeeGo device. It works. But since this is still all young, it takes its time to take off.
Instinctiv need to make money for a living. The Ovi store cannot deliver that on the N900 and will never because there are not enough units sold for a critical mass. This is Nokia's fault, but it was also their intention to make the device available mostly to early adopters and developers, instead of going mainstream immediately. Maemo6, now rebranded MeeGo, was intended for Nokia's mainstream Linux debut.
They communicated that clearly before sales started and always tried to avoid making a hype of the N900.

Phone contracts are usually for two years but people who wish to change can put the SIM card into a new phone. My SIM went from a G1 into the N900 without problems.
Still, there's no need to abandon the N900 if Nokia decided to stop publishing updates.

And if you're missing 100.000 of apps (for what? trying one after the other in boredom because they're all crap? yes, then you'd need a huge number to cover a two year's time), the N900 has never been the right phone for you and would never become.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

@geoshia
-Nokia is not in favor of those contracts (check case USA,customer locked to specific SP)
-IMO those contracts are generally bad deal for customer. You should never ever buy something from this prize category if you can't afford to it.
-Contracts are not common in all the countries.
-Contracts were invetend by service provides(not by Nokia) to suck money out of customer.
---IMO Actually service provider takes responsibility give support in contracts cases.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

None of that bothers me, partly beause I knew they were missing. And, since it was a beta device, I expected them to be added in time. I mean, it was a software issue mostly. And with OTA, I thought I'd wake up one morning and see MMS added.

Let's not forget that it's not what's missing in the specs page that got everyone upset.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

@Ericsson - I bought my phone unlocked. The question isn't who is stupid and who is not, but industry standards which is what I think we are discussing. While folks do not like it, it exists and understanding reasonable support timeframes that apply for a variety of contexts is important. In your logic, a person should ALWAYS buy when a phone is brand new otherwise, they will only get support for a few months. That's simply ludicrous.

Nokia also sells to non-enthusiasts. I remember when the N900 was launched in Hong Kong. You mean every Hong Kong user is a Linux hacker? That was certainly not the way they were promoting it.

Support != updates, (is true) but from intents and purposes, the N900 has moved into sustaining level service waay too early when it shouldn't be. That's the point. Go back and reread my posts in that context.

@Slender - True. The context of the discussion is what is "industry standard" and I still refute the point that 1 year of support (updates) is sufficient as others claim.

Re: Nokia finishes Maemo5 support
 

what made you expect that? that's just not reasonable. consumers constructing such unrealistic expectations is probably the issue here, not nokia's way of treating the device.