Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

I guess the whole "mobile computer" part backfired. I've never purchased a computer that I couldn't upgrade.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

What cool aid did you drink ? We are talking about upgrades from one version of OS to another and you mention about incremental minor upgrades as an example.

PR 1.2 to PR 1.3 is a minor upgrade to Maemo 5.

Come back and tell me when Nokia upgrades your N900 from Maemo 5 to Maemo 6/Meego .
Or ask the N800/N810 users how they got upgraded from Maemo 4 to Maemo 5.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

What happened to the advantages of an "open-source' operating system and all those wonderful comments floating around about "future proofing" these Internet Tablets with community support whenever Nokia moves on to its new devices. I've yet to see Nokia provide the community with the support it needs to backport Fremantle to our N800's, the way they outright announced that they would. What happened to all that wonderful talk gave about how they contribute so much back to open-source and how they were all about open-development and open-source and open this and that?

To bring up the even BETTER point that a previous genuinely intelligent commenter brought up, what happened to the idea that this was supposed to be a mobile COMPUTER, rather than a phone? If I go down your road of looking at other phones and their support, then I must restate for the record what an incredibly poor phone these Maemo devices have been--even the N900 which has a genuine cellphone radio in it and was sold as a phone. A crippled phone at that.

Do I even need to drag my Motorola Droid back into this? I recieved FAR more official OTA incremental *AND* major upgrades than the N900 did--both phones being released at nearly the same time, by the way. It appears that although the Droid wasn't promised the next major upgrade, it might just be coming after all. There's already a beta build from source-code floating around for the rooted crowd which I'm trying to avoid until it's not-beta. I'm told it's only days away from release. How long until you get your next major upgrade? Incremental? Hello? Anything?

If you're going to start comparing phone support to phone support, try bothering to look around first at the competition--you sound daft on ALL your counts. Nokia should be ashamed of its upgrade support and customer support history--a hollow soulless limbo.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

upgrade? just wait 355 days...

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Oh it didnt go unnoticed, but Father Ted is a 1995 - 1998 event! This thread is for 2011 events!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_OG3i1o1f67...0/Fr.+Jack.jpg
"Feck off 1995 -1998 event"

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Cripes. Where's Chuck Norris when we need him? :)

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

I know what you said - please read my comment again: I brought the fact that the new Symbian devices will be upgraded while it didn't used to be like that previously - as an example of how Nokia sobered up and started understanding how the market has changed.
I was thinking that if - a few years ago - you wanted to have an entirely new Symbian version on your Nokia phone, you had to buy a new phone but now you don't have to anymore (up to a certain point, of course), and I'm hoping that Nokia would realize that this new (to Nokia) logic should also be applied to Maemo/MeeGo.
I know Maemo's past, and I know that Nokia didn't used to enable the user to upgrade to a newer OS when it eventually was released, but as I said - I'm hoping that this will be changed from now on, especially due to the fact that Nokia now has a new CEO with a different (?) way of managing, and I'm hoping that the fruits of this management changes would eventually find their ways to us, the end-users.
This is merely my hope, nothing more...

Btw, sorry for not not noticing your 'Father Ted' reference - I have no idea who that guy is... :o

First of all, as far as I know - Nokia's major profit comes from that "low-end to mid-end" market segment.
In fact, in terms of selling cellular phones (not only smartphones) Nokia's still manages to be the most largest seller, with a market share which is far higher than any of its competitors...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellula...e#Market_share

As for the rest of your comment, I direct you to my above comment to gebrick.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8...catcomesfr.jpg

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

That's a new development... and Symbian != Maemo

I sorta refuse to speak on a platform that I will never support.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Nonsense, this is talk.bash-nokia.org! ;)

Having an open source operating system can't compensate on the vendor's failure to deliver. It says nothing about the open source nature of the operating system.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Have I ever said it isn't?

Have I ever said it is?

Well you're no fun... :(

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Don't forget you're potentially talking to folks that's owned multiple Maemo devices, only to have them short ended because Nokia just wanted to push out something new.

770, N800, N810, N810 WiMax, N900... in order, they had OS 2005/06, OS 2007/08/Diablo, OS 2008/Diablo, OS 2008/Diablo, Maemo 5. The 770 had OS 2007/08 Hacker Editions (they were horrible, didn't have the Flash plugin), N800/N810 had... well, nothing. Mer, Mer^2 never happened. And the N900... par for the course with the prior generation so far.

My point is that the upgrade path(s) on the Maemo devices has been real limited - 13 months maximum in most instances. Compared to some other folks, that's a lot. To some others, that's minor. The fact it's being sold as a (prior generations) internet tablet or (present generation) a mobile computer, the lack of coherent communication in regards to upgrades plain suck.

And I know the age-old point a finger at the few Android 1.6 phones that have yet to receive an update. Most were cheap, not $600+ dollars like the N900, but those users are basically screwed. I have a Samsung Captivate. If it weren't for XDA Developers, I wouldn't have 2.2.1, I'm playing with a 2.3.1 alpha right now, and it's about as unofficial as you can get.

If anything, I was really expecting that same level of stuff from this community. Hasn't happened at all.

Symbian... I'm not a fan. And all of the stuff happening around it right now - have ensured that I will not put it on my radar. I've liked Maemo from the moment I touched a 770. I've liked this forum the moment since I've joined it. That doesn't mean that I cannot state that I am 100% pleased with all that I see.

Compared to XDA, the output of stuff here is pretty minor on the OS side. Compared to anybody else though, the developers are (or were) creating apps and functionality that just didn't exist. Even that has slowed down to a crawl.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Relax guys! N900 is a undefeated champion. That means it is the best of the best!

http://images.fonearena.com/blog/wp-...ed-1_thumb.jpg

Its simply too great to get any update...

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Meego is not ready for a mobile phone yet. Anyone with N900 can confirm this. So N9 can't be released or it would be stupid to release.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Nokia has released unfinished products before.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

What Nokia were planning to put on the N9 was actually a Meego compatible version of Maemo 6 (Harmattan) commonly referred to as Meego/Harmattan on these forums, which bears little relation to the version of Meego we can run on the N900, so that Meego on the N900 is unfinished doesn't mean anything for the N9 if they are carrying on with that plan. But we don't know what Nokia's current plans are for the N9, they may have scrapped Meego/Harmattan and gone for pure Meego (with their own UI) instead.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Nokia now has a new executive stack, to go with their new software stack. Hopefully this would mean changes to that behavior.

That or both will need patches.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

But of course! The current executive team is only step 4 of 5.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Given how this forum, a bunch of enthusiasts are reacting to Elop being at Nokia, I can only imagine that a group of highly paid executives, some were overlooked for that job, are having an equally bad, if not worse reaction to an outsider joining their ranks.

Office politics are second to only government politics in standing in the way of things getting done.

Chump don' want no help, chump don't get da' help.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

"who gives a crap about other companies and how they do the business."

Yeah, there are ALOT of people here whining about "I should have bought an Andoid instead" or "Nokia should going Android" blablabla..

So maybe you should ask all those people the same as you ask me!!?

Maybe THEY are payed by Google or working for HTC!?

People here should not be so damn naive all phones has problems! I am sure same people whining exatly the same if they bought an HTC and found that the also lacks updates or have other problems! if you and others wants updates every month then you probadly have to pay alot more for the HW.

And btw. security updates? Give me an example were this is an problem on N900? I am not an expert but in the Linux world security fixes is updated far more often than in the windows case.

Btw. Non other OS is updated forever. Just take a look att Microsoft that is releasing a new bigversions every third year or so... And all people is paying for it without even whining!

And no I am not a Nokia employer or in theyr PR department. But I prefer real OS:es like Meego Linux instead of broken Linux OS like Android that why I am "Lobbying" for Meego/QT at my "freetime".

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Basically by the time N9 is released into the wilderness. N9 will probably have outdated hardware and sluggish comparing to the Droids, Palm, and iPhone. Think about it, if N9 was made or designed last year approximately the design date started almost the same time as the N900 and the hardware is already outdated before the announcement and leak of the N9 in the year 2010.

So, this year the imfamous N9 will probably having OMAP3 processor with 512MB RAM and a buggy MeeGo release with few support.

2010 is the beginning of the OMAP4 not OMAP3, Omap3 is an old news now a day.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

I dont know about marketing was in US/UK but atleast in sweden N900 was NEVER marketed as a phone! Yes it did say it had a phone but it moslty said it was a handsetcomputer. Infact non operators did sell the N900 at the begining only sold at Nokia store.

And when N900 was released there were nothing that could compete here as a handsetcomputer. This has ofcourse changed alot since then. But I still dont see any better open Linuxphone with tweek posibilities like N900.

" There's already a beta build from source-code floating around for the rooted crowd which I'm trying to avoid until it's not-beta. I'm told it's only days away from release. How long until you get your next major upgrade? Incremental? Hello? Anything?"

So what do you wanna say with above? That the OSS community is building Android? That I already know.

And we have PowerKernel and Meego and possibility to install soon MeegoUI in top of Maemo. So I dont see any difference?

Bot are open. Some stuff are closed and I am a bit of a realist and understand that not all can be fully open source only Stallman fanatics believe in that...

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Rhyming doesn't make it a truer statement.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_akLHpeO7qy...motivation.jpg

Hey, you know what they say: see a broad to get dat booty yak 'em... leg 'er down a smack 'em yak 'em! ;)

So wait.. first you said no other OS is updated forever, using Microsoft as an example, then you claim to love Linux (an OS which appears to have been created in 1991 and continues to receive updates). I'm not sure which side of the argument you're standing on.

By the way--how WOULD you know whether or not you've been infected if you don't have security software and an updated kernel that can detect or prevent any new infections since the kernel was patched or updated? Just curious about where you're coming from with your argument. It feels... unscientific. :)

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

What I meant is OS is not updated without profit and new money in to the companys using it. Not even Linux.

As we all know alot o the kernel maintainers is employed (in)direcly in some way.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Clearly, clearly. And we know a lot of the kernel maintainers are also contributing without direct employment. I'm still not sure which side you were arguing and you still didn't respond to my questions about security updates. I'd like to know why so many businesses are so concerned about security updates, and see how well they would survive if you're correct. It seems as if you're making the argument of "security through obscurity." If that's the case, I urge you to read up on the subject.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

no chance against dan if he gets in discuss-trance.
http://www.reviewguys.com/site/wp-co...rks_detail.jpg

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

I dont get whatg you mean now?

The security question was an directly answer to "somedude"

who claimed: "make it better or atleast fix some security holes"

So my question was what security holes is thetre in N900 that he knows about?

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

How about every security hole that the kernel maintainers have patched against ever since the kernel you're currently running. (Correct me if I'm wrong, somedude.) I think he's simply asking that the kernel is maintained like a proper open-source OS on a computer should be, not languished the way most closed-minded phone devices are.

discuss-trance shark FTW :)

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

yes there is stuff that could be more open in the kernel(wifi/modem/gfx/camera) and apps. but can you show me ANY phone that is fully open source in the kernel/apps etc.. example gfx drivers, adobe flash and so on? I am sure this is not only a Nokia problem. no one is fully open source.

But yes I could agree that it may be is stupid that some apps is not open like calendar/mediaplayer and so on but again this could maybe be because some stuff is copyright or written by thirdparty. we cant be sure a l apps in maemo5 core is done inside nokia or by the more open minded engineers inside nokia. I have heardd rumors that some old symbian peope doesnt always like the "openes" thinking and I am sure the team behind maemo5 is far less than the developers worked with symbian for many years. Anyone her tthat has followed maemo knows this was a nokia expriment projekt. so when time runout for n900 they maybe got some help from symbians guys or thirdparty with some of that stuff that is not open. I am notsaying this is the case just my guess. I mean I agree it seems insane that mediapleyer/camera atleast when no one can tell us a good reason.

but as far as i know there is stuff that has been opened thee latest halfyear, modemstack, cameradrivers is some..

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Then why did they DECREASE the openness as they went along, if they're so committed to open-source? Why commission a closed-source calendar application for an open-source operating system? Why prefer closed-source reliant hardware when there are more open-source friendlier ones? Maybe that one I could concede on a little and forgive some hardware drivers, but closed-source applications and forcing a dependency on them? Why the puffery about open-source at all, if you're going to just create a hard dependency on closed-source applications that you can't remove like the calendar, media player, etc.? Credit where it's due--at least they FINALLY did open up the camera drivers--but that still leaves an INCREDIBLY large amount of dependencies and closed-source to contend with.

By contrast, if I run CyanogenMod (without the Google Apps, I might add) on my Droid--I have a firmware image constantly updated by the community all on its own with almost complete open-source and very, VERY little closed-source at all and no dependency on closed source except for the drivers and Dalvik. You can throw on the Google pack to add Market and Maps and so on--but none of those are required or requirements. Hell, once Amazon puts out their app store, you can switch completely to Amazon's if you want in lieu of Android Market. Can you say you have the same amount of flexibility and openness in Maemo? Maybe MeeGo will--but Maemo has been an abysmal example to open-source with no bragging rights over Android. Perhaps they only intended to be more open than Apple's iOS?

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

I think the OpenMoko devices were fully open, even the GSM stack. Sure they weren't great or current in terms of connectivity, but they were open.

That said, for all of Nokia's rhetoric about open source they dropped the ball with Maemo. Better and more familiar than other vendors at the time, but nowhere near what was necessary to match their speech. MeeGo is essentially what Maemo should have been in terms of openness, and I hope they follow through on at least letting stock meego users have full hardware support.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

354 days left until I will be a N9 user. From the posts here I guess I be the only one. Mikecomputing seems to be into meego too...

And to the rest(gerbick,dan and atilla). You cant keep your hands from it when its finally arrives ;)

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

would you mind elaborating that or quantifying it for me?


edit:
here is an article about the security patches added on the 2.6.28 kernel
http://lwn.net/Articles/303976/
if you go in depth why they are needed then you probably can search and will get zillion pages explaining why.
and here is another discussion on ubuntu forums
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1275517

now you might point out its for computer.
and i would say: exactly right,
Nokia did sell me this device touting MOBILE COMPUTER

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

this thread should have ended on page one.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

Sure. If nokia only had released n9 last year. We would be here in this thread right now. Don't blame me. Please call OPK and tell him that.

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

OPK? Elop?

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

?

???????

Re: Elop said N9 is a 2011 event. It's 2011! Where is it?
 

[QUOTE=danramos;917443]Then why did they DECREASE the openness as they went along, if they're so committed to open-source? Why commission a closed-source calendar application for an open-source operating system? Why prefer closed-source reliant hardware when there are more open-source friendlier ones? "

Again show me an example of an fully open source hardware on handset market!? OI havent even seen any fully open source drivers on PC market(Example: closed wifi/gfx drivers is some...).

Do you mean they should use an open source based calendar? DO they work with fully sync for OVi/IMAP whatever crap sokme needs? If they decided to go fully open calendar then even more people should startr bashing about halfdone stuff.

Another example is flash everyone is bashing about Flash 9 instead of Flash 10 is that component open!? Not a chance! Is there an open replacement that works. I can say no. So again not everything can be fully open.

" Maybe that one I could concede on a little and forgive some hardware drivers, but closed-source applications and forcing a dependency on them? Why the puffery about open-source at all, if you're going to just create a hard dependency on closed-source applications that you can't remove like the calendar, media player, etc.? Credit where it's due--at least they FINALLY did open up the camera drivers--but that still leaves an INCREDIBLY large amount of dependencies and closed-source to contend with."

Why can the calendar be removed? :-S Where did u get that from?


"By contrast, if I run CyanogenMod (without the Google Apps, I
might add) on my Droid--I have a firmware image constantly updated by the community all on its own with almost complete open-source and very, VERY little closed-source at all and no dependency on closed source except for the drivers and Dalvik."

Exactly the same for N900 then. = PowerKernel with USBHostmode, fcam instead of old camera driver, open source wifi driver etc...