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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   MeeGo / Harmattan (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=45)
-   -   MeeGo 1.2 Developer Edition for N900 (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=70615)

wmarone 2011-03-04 06:41
Re: MeeGo 1.2 Developer Edition for N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by H3llb0und (Post 960246)
Yeah, Steve Jobs is the defender of openness, that's why he wants to make a proprietary video codec the standard for HTML5.
I was about to mention earlier that he's wrong about other things (a great many things) but you brought him up in a topic on something he's right about.

Quote:
If there is a website you want to access that uses Flash and you don't have it, it's your own fault you own a device that doesn't support it.
I blame Adobe because the software is proprietary and no one can support the device but Adobe. We could trivially have Flash 10.1 due to how similar maemo/meego are to desktop Linux systems but due to mobile devices being "special," Adobe refuse to move on it.

Quote:
That's like buying a media player that plays every known audio format but cannot play MP3.
And yes MP3 is very outdated, I prefer other formats.
You can at least get open source mp3 and aac decoders. Last I checked the closest open source equivalent to adobe flash player was Gnash, and it can't do a huge number of things that Flash can.

I suppose it's back to mailing websites and asking them to support web standards instead of focusing on proprietary products. Hello 2002, welcome back.

H3llb0und 2011-03-04 07:53
Re: MeeGo 1.2 Developer Edition for N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmarone (Post 960277)
I was about to mention earlier that he's wrong about other things (a great many things) but you brought him up in a topic on something he's right about.


I blame Adobe because the software is proprietary and no one can support the device but Adobe. We could trivially have Flash 10.1 due to how similar maemo/meego are to desktop Linux systems but due to mobile devices being "special," Adobe refuse to move on it.


You can at least get open source mp3 and aac decoders. Last I checked the closest open source equivalent to adobe flash player was Gnash, and it can't do a huge number of things that Flash can.

I suppose it's back to mailing websites and asking them to support web standards instead of focusing on proprietary products. Hello 2002, welcome back.
So you believe we never got Flash 10 on the N900 by Adobe's fault? Or even TI? Only Nokia is to blame here.
The big thing about Flash 10.x is that is GPU accelerated, so the device/OS maker (Nokia) and the GPU maker (TI) have to make it work just like with H264. Whoever develops a video codec is not magically able to test and support all hardware variations out there.

There are lots of other free and paid programs that export to SWF / FLV and AIR. Get on with the times.

xenkof 2011-03-04 07:55
Re: MeeGo 1.2 Developer Edition for N900
 
Do you have any new deadlines defined now that Nokia is more actively involved?
For example, IF the new device will be released in 2011 and it's sometime in october/november (my reasoning being that both the N900 and N8 where released on that timeframe, probably to catch some of that holiday market) and it will have the final Meego version.
Then should we be seeing early summer or late spring for the developer version? Not much sense in getting the developer version after a full featured product has shipped. No need to hone anything on it then. Just get the new one (or Nokia may give it away is it does with the E7 and WP7 phones).

slender 2011-03-04 08:08
Re: MeeGo 1.2 Developer Edition for N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 960249)
From hardware adaptation, not UI:

1) Already works, I saw an awesome demo - front camera ("webcam") still in progress, but the big camera is the one of actual use.
2) Already works
3) Already works
4) Already works
5) Works for non-AGPS but still in labs due to us needing legal approval to redistributable bits. Who'd want to use Ovi Maps? ;)
6) Works
7) Works (but we don't have a switcher dialog in UI)
8) Works
9) Works
I really much appreciate that you comment here, but after seeing n+1 threads where people do not understand what they read (or actually do not read thread at all where they post comments randomly) I have to underline this for users around here.

"From hardware adaptation, not UI"

Probably some people here do not even understand what that means :|

But great work! And after all most of stuff what we ask here can be checked from meego wiki.

johnel 2011-03-04 08:32
Re: MeeGo 1.2 Developer Edition for N900
 
As I understand it:

The "hardware adaption" team (lead by stskeeps) are writing backend stuff (e.g. GPS hardware, ability to SMS and make phone calls). Also developing *standard "Meego" UI.

The "Developer Edition" team (lead by Nokia) are writing addiitional UI components to integrate with *standard "Meego" UI and possibly proprietory components too? (e.g. NOT Flash but mapping software).

Can I assume the "Developer Edition" is not a completely new UI stack atop of N900 Meego? If that's the case then "duplication" of standard "Meego" UI is pretty stupid. I hope it is in addition to standard "Meego" UI and developing "Nokia" UI components.

I'm not quite sure what the "boundaries" of the two projects are.



*I mean the Meego UI for "handsets".

Stskeeps 2011-03-04 08:49
Re: MeeGo 1.2 Developer Edition for N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnel (Post 960319)
As I understand it:

The "hardware adaption" team (lead by stskeeps) are writing backend stuff (e.g. GPS hardware, ability to SMS and make phone calls). Also developing *standard "Meego" UI.

The "Developer Edition" team (lead by Nokia) are writing addiitional UI components to integrate with *standard "Meego" UI and possibly proprietory components too? (e.g. NOT Flash but mapping software).

Can I assume the "Developer Edition" is not a completely new UI stack atop of N900 Meego? If that's the case then "duplication" of standard "Meego" UI is pretty stupid. I hope it is in addition to standard "Meego" UI and developing "Nokia" UI components.

I'm not quite sure what the "boundaries" of the two projects are.



*I mean the Meego UI for "handsets".
"Hardware adaptation" delivers the backend that makes the MeeGo.com platform work properly on N900. IE, drivers, kernels and other boring stuff.

Intel works on MeeGo Handset UX with the intent only of delivering a reference UX for others to finish and built upon. We've (HW adaptation) here and there helped with some contributions on UI side when needed to speed some things up, but it's not our real duty to even touch UI side.

DE takes HW adaptation + MeeGo.com Core + MeeGo.com Handset UX and takes it and makes it usable for daily usage for developers/extreme power users, contributing UI changes back to MeeGo.com Handset UX. DE publishes a "MeeGo.com-based" "product", ie, the DE.

They start with simple but needed basic use cases. http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/HE#Use_cases lists those. The idea is to make them work solidly, well and usable on a daily basis.

Long story short: Make Handset UX not "suck" and be able to use it for those use cases without wanting to throw it out from 6th floor like a Neo Freerunner.

Can it evolve beyond the basic use cases over time? Yes, but let's get the basic stuff working first and well. As an example, I could care less about DLNA working when my phonecalls don't ;)

blipnl 2011-03-04 08:51
Re: MeeGo 1.2 Developer Edition for N900
 
@Stskeeps, really appreciate that you are willing to share detailed information regarding the (hw) adoptation for the N900. There is one thing I'd like to ask and that is..

When you now something exciting is about to happen, e.g. an expected release date of software for instance, would you be willing to share that information with this community as well?

I am asking this because most N900 users are eager to hear about the progress of their Maemo replacement/alternative (in the long run). You probably know that we have been let in the cold for a couple of times, but adaptation teams like yours make us look forward to the N900 future!

Stskeeps 2011-03-04 08:53
Re: MeeGo 1.2 Developer Edition for N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipnl (Post 960329)
@Stskeeps, really appreciate that you are willing to share detailed information regarding the (hw) adoptation for the N900. There is one thing I'd like to ask and that is..

When you now something exciting is about to happen, e.g. an expected release date of software for instance, would you be willing to share that information with this community as well?
We have weekly status meetings and publish minutes from this on meego-dev@ mailing list each time. We conduct our business in the open, on #meego-arm (as will the DE people) and our release schedule follows http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.2

Stskeeps 2011-03-04 09:06
Re: MeeGo 1.2 Developer Edition for N900
 
Also, keep in mind that contributions are very welcome. The DE project is intended to run in the open. Even implementing simple control panels for simple N900 specific things (TV out control as an example) in QML + PySide would be very valuable.

To add to the fun mix, it seems like the idea is to mix Intel Tablet UX + Handset UX (replacing some of the bad apps in Handset) So we'll get Intel's QML components too which should make things a lot easier.

m4r0v3r 2011-03-04 09:15
Re: MeeGo 1.2 Developer Edition for N900
 
I appreciate all the work being done for this, and if any donations are needed I'd be more than happy as this is something I'd like to see come to life rather than abandoned


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