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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- Community (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

- - MeeGo Coding Competition 2011 (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71561)

helex

2011-10-08 09:28

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by marxian (Post 1092058)

For the screen orientation, there is actually no need to bother with the JavaScript example.

Thanks again for your Help. I was now finally able to upload it to the ovi store. I hope it goes thru the QA testing without problems...
My todo list is still long, I hope I'm able to improve it furthermore and port my other stuff also to Harmattan. I have still my TcpIpKeyboard project I'm eager to finish.
Sadly I have currently the problem that I perhaps need a small side job, so fewer and fewer time for my hobby. :(

Currently not the best time for the fun of coding and creating. But thats perhaps live! :rolleyes:

Any updates from zehjotkah or texrat? :)

piggz

2011-10-08 10:18

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

The competition is still running? :D

helex

2011-10-08 12:33

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by piggz (Post 1105144)

The competition is still running? :D

No, mh, but I uploaded now the new ClipMan version anyway. The Nokia OVI QA will take also several days. It's quite different compared to the N900 version and I'm sure currently are the most developers not really aware of the rule to don't update the software until the voting has finished. I guess this is impossible for so a long time.
By the way I participated only with the N900 and the MeeGo tablet version at the competition. So uploading a Harmattan version now should be fine for everyone. ;)

I never thought the voting could take that long... but we have no company running this competition and this are hard times for the community. Hope is the last thing to die! :)

mzanetti

2011-10-08 12:49

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

This really really makes me sad :(

piggz

2011-10-08 12:56

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

What about using a ready-made poll system, to choose a name for calligra office, we used the following system

http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/civs/

piggz

2011-10-08 12:56

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

What about using a ready-made poll system, to choose a name for calligra office, we used the following system

http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/civs/

Helmuth

2011-10-10 08:22

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by piggz (Post 1105228)

What about using a ready-made poll system, to choose a name for calligra office, we used the following system

Thanks piggz, I haven't known about this service. :)

Basically a good idea. But on closer examination this is a different company, and to use this voting system we would have to deliver all emailadresses from the maemo.org users to cornell.edu - I'm not sure if this could cause a lot of trouble for us. :confused:

What if this organisation will sell this valuable, verified Userdata to a spam hoster? :( [sigh]

Perhaps we should take the risk and setup a poll there before christmas. But perhaps we should wait until St Nicholas' Day if zehjotkah is able to setup a poll on a own system. ;)

pelago

2011-10-10 09:39

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

I think it's got to the point where it would be better to Just Do a poll somewhere (whether a forum poll, or the system piggz linked to, or surveymonkey, or whatever), rather than worrying too much about vote rigging and only accepting votes from people with a certain account lifetime or karma. If you use the forum poll feature, if you make it open so you can see what usernames voted, that could help guard against vote rigging.

helex

2011-10-11 15:00

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

A update from Zehjotkah would be nice... :(

zehjotkah

2011-10-12 17:56

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Hi, I'm still here!

Sorry for the lack of updates. :(
After the Intel Elements I was sick for one week and this week I got a promotion to a new job. Have to do much more so I can't be online on tmo at work.

To be clear: I won't give the email addresses of the forum members to any third party service. I wouldn't want this to be done with my email address, so I won't do it with the ones from others.

I've met the developer of the website some days ago and his wife is getting better. At the moment I'm waiting for his answer when he can start setting up the voting process.

Trust me, I'm as eager as you finishing this project. Currently it's the only project in my life which feels somewhat unfinished. ^^
Also I feel bad having all your money on my PayPal account.

Thanks a lot for your patience and again sorry for being so slow.

PS: I still don't understand why we're not allowed to use the maemo.org servers and voting process^^

zehjotkah

2011-10-14 05:55

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

A quick update,

in the maemo community meeting on irc yesterday, Bergie from Nemein told me to just send all the data we have to Nemein and they will set up the voting process.
I'll do it tomorrow because today I have to prepare the garden (water filled hoses, pool) for the winter. Past night we had temperatures below 0°C! :eek:

helex

2011-10-14 06:38

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by zehjotkah (Post 1108559)

in the maemo community meeting on irc yesterday, Bergie from Nemein told me to just send all the data we have to Nemein and they will set up the voting process.

:o :rolleyes:

Okay, well, at least preparing the tables was not for nothing. Let's await the happy ending! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zehjotkah (Post 1108559)

I'll do it tomorrow because today I have to prepare the garden (water filled hoses, pool) for the winter. Past night we had temperatures below 0°C! :eek:

No pity! At least not from me! :p
Gave your pool to me, I will do the job for you. :p ;)

I've currently craftsmen here since 7:30, they are painting the window frames - since 3 days and I'm unable to close the windows until the evening. (the paint is drying very slowly at 3°C)

So I know exactly the temperature outside. It's the same like inside. :D

P.S.: Don't forget to adjust the voting timeframe in the database files. And perhaps a small gap (about 4 hours) between the beginning of each vote could be a good idea to reduce the server load.

zehjotkah

2011-10-14 14:28

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Had some time, sent the files.
Thanks for remembering me to change the date. :)

piggz

2011-10-14 18:15

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Cool, glad to see things moving

Texrat

2011-10-14 18:45

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by zehjotkah (Post 1108559)

in the maemo community meeting on irc yesterday, Bergie from Nemein told me to just send all the data we have to Nemein and they will set up the voting process.

Good to hear. My queries have gone nowhere.

codecxbox

2011-10-14 19:01

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

We need that Alien Dalvik implementation now!! and i dont give f.. what Google and Nokia says, they may as well suck d...

zehjotkah

2011-10-14 20:51

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by codecxbox (Post 1108842)

We need that Alien Dalvik implementation now!! and i dont give f.. what Google and Nokia says, they may as well suck d...

u mad bro? ^^

zehjotkah

2011-10-17 16:07

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

What going on atm:

Quote:

Dear Nemein Team,

Here are all the required files for the MeeGo Coding Competition 2011.
If you need more explanation please don't heisitate to contact me.

Thanks a lot!
Cosimo aka zehjotkah

Attachment(s)
MeeGoCodingCompetition2011.tar.gz

Quote:

Hi,

Thanks! I remember bergie talking about this, but it's not really clear for me what to do with these. :) Do you want these published or something?

Br,
Aslan / nemein

Quote:

Hi Aslan,

We need you to create a voting process (or better: nine voting processes)
similar to the community council voting process.

Best regards,

Cosimo

Quote:

Hello,

Alright, I'll get it going. I'll reply back to you when it's done.

Br,
Aslan

helex

2011-10-17 19:31

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

We need definitively 9 votings. If he mix it up and merge our 9 tables we could get a serious problem if a categorie gets only a single vote or something like that... :rolleyes:

Thanks Zehjotkah for the update! :)

zehjotkah

2011-10-18 14:26

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

To keep you informed. ;)

Quote:

Hi,

Is there any criteria for allowing users vote in this one? Council elections had karma requirement and also ''three month rule" that forbids accounts newer than 3 months from receiving voting token.

Br,
Aslan

Quote:

Hi Aslan,

Yes, there is such a rule.

All maemo.org users registered for at least four month at the time of voting should be able to vote.

Thanks a lot!

Cosimo

Quote:

Hi Aslan,

just to make sure.
We need 9 (nine) votings. For each category one voting.
Because we have prizes for each category, so we need votes and winner in each category.

Thanks and best regards,
Cosimo

viic	2011-10-21 19:28

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

so the voting will be open soon?

zehjotkah

2011-10-24 05:53

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by viic (Post 1111821)

so the voting will be open soon?

If everything works out as expected, yes. :)

zehjotkah

2011-10-25 06:47

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Just got a mail from Aslan. What do you think?
I could propose to send the emails with one hour between each email, or something like that.

Quote:

Hi,

Sorry for taking so long with this, there has been some stuff I needed to do before this. Nine votings, sure this was clear for me... the thing is that the maemo voting system is not really designed for doing nine votings at the same time. What I mean, that some people (those 50 thousand members allowed to vote) probably do not appreciate getting the same "spam" email nine times.

You need to send tokens for every voting, so that's why we have this problem here. I'm not sure also if maemo infra can handle 9x50k emails sent from "un-optimal" email system. If you are sure that you want to continue with this, ok, but I don't want to hear any complaints about spamming myself ;)

Br,
Aslan

lma	2011-10-25 06:53

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Maybe someone could volunteer to hack the token-generating scripts to queue the tokens and send them all (ie 9 in 1 email) in one go? IIRC the voting system comes from GNOME so the code should be public somewhere.

mmlado

2011-10-25 07:03

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by zehjotkah (Post 1113215)

Just got a mail from Aslan. What do you think?
I could propose to send the emails with one hour between each email, or something like that.

Don't know if it would be possible to send one mail, with all 9 mail content in it. The system probably wasn't designed for this, and it would take time to modify it, prolonging the waiting, again.

An hour between emails is good. Maybe you could add a paragraph at the end mentioning there will be 9 letters like that and to add the email address to the spam filter to let it through.

zehjotkah

2011-10-25 07:23

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Seems that sending the content of nine emails in one is not possible.
I think modifying the system would take too much time again. I just want it to finish... :D

reinob

2011-10-25 07:34

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

@zehjotkah,

Just let us have the 9 e-mails. It's not that much, and it's coming from a known source. We all get tens of e-mails from maemo.org everyday (if you subscribe to every thread you reply to, that is).

Just make sure that the subject has something about "Meego Coding Competition 2011" so that it's clear..

lma	2011-10-25 08:07

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by zehjotkah (Post 1113235)

Seems that sending the content of nine emails in one is not possible.

Hm, after cursory examination (the code is here and instructions here) I think it's quite doable. Token generation and emailing are distinct, separate steps, and the database schema is already designed to hold multiple concurrent elections.

Quote:

I think modifying the system would take too much time again. I just want it to finish... :D

The only modification needed would be to make scripts/mail-instructions.pl grab all elections' tokens and insert them in the template (in fact it already partially supports multiple name/email/token substitutions into the same template). Then you'd just run scripts/create-tmp-tokens.pl 9 times to generate the tokens and scripts/mail-instructions.pl once. It looks like about an afternoon's work, I'm pretty sure the maemo.org maintenance budget can handle that, especially since we didn't have a council election ;-)

zehjotkah

2011-10-25 08:12

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Okay, thanks.
Here is my latest email:

Quote:

Hi Aslan,

thanks for your email.
Isn't it possible to send one email containing the link to all nine tokens?

I'll quote Ima from the maemo forums:
(http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=668)

"Hm, after cursory examination (the code is here and instructions here) I think it's quite doable. Token generation and emailing are distinct, separate steps, and the database schema is already designed to hold multiple concurrent elections.

The only modification needed would be to make scripts/mail-instructions.pl grab all elections' tokens and insert them in the template (in fact it already partially supports multiple name/email/token substitutions into the same template). Then you'd just run scripts/create-tmp-tokens.pl 9 times to generate the tokens and scripts/mail-instructions.pl once. It looks like about an afternoon's work, I'm pretty sure the maemo.org maintenance budget can handle that, especially since we didn't have a council election ;-)"

Thanks and best regards,
Cosimo

Helmuth

2011-10-25 08:48

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Hm, okay. Perhaps I'm answering to late but I would have proposed to ask how long the servers will get loaded until the 50.000 emails are sent?

He could decide himself if a single hour gap between the voting or 6 hours would be needed for the server to recover.

In the case we have to send 9 emails we should ensure that the servers are done with the first batch as soon as the next will begin.

Btw. a voting email each 24 hours wouldn't be a mistake. Remembering myself the last competition and the last concil election voting needs time and is work. ;)
Personally I prefer 20 minutes each evening considering without ruffle or excitement whom to elect instead of about a hour long a full load of "work".
I know myself, what if I'm tired after the 7th poll and selecting randomly in impulse to simply finish with this stuff. I would prefer more time between the polls to have enought time to review the projects. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmlado (Post 1113224)

An hour between emails is good. Maybe you could add a paragraph at the end mentioning there will be 9 letters like that and to add the email address to the spam filter to let it through.

I would prefer a sentence in the beginning. "Maemo/MeeGo Coding Competition 2011 - voting email 1 of 9" - or this sentence in the subject. Who is reading such kind of emails to the end? :D

piggz

2011-10-31 22:13

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Just do it soon so that it doesnt have to be called the Meego 2012 coding competition :)

zehjotkah

2011-11-02 11:51

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

fyi

Quote:

Hi Aslan,

do you have any news regarding the set-up?

Thanks and best regards,
Cosimo

Donation update:
0,50€ by hansaka

Thanks!

zehjotkah

2011-11-08 08:48

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

some updates:

Quote:

Hello,

On behalf of Maemo Council, if you are worried about server load, feel free to send and stagger nine emails. The delay in voting was already a couple months before this internal ticket was opened and has now become a deep concern.

Rob (SD69)

Quote:

Dear Aslan or anyone available at Nemein,

Do you have ANY news for me?

Thanks,
Cosimo

Quote:

Hi,

Aslan is currently away, I will look into it.

Best regards,
Riku Virta
Nemein

Have a nice day and don't let Nokia trick you into their Windows Phone marketing... ;)

zehjotkah

2011-11-08 10:31

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Quote:

Hi,

After filtering out all the users newer than 2011-06-20 this whole thing would still generate around 57000 emails.
Do you really want this to be done?

Am I missing something? because this seems to be madness.

//Riku Virta
//Nemein

Am I missing something, or is this correct?

edit: just got another email:

Quote:

Hi,

Before the voting part for the 2011 coding competition really gets out
of hand I decided to check the situation.

For elections in the past we always filtered the number of people who
were eligible to vote. The filtering was done based on the karma value.
This filtering ensured that we are not sending out tens of thousands of
emails in a batch. The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot). This number is
valid only if we change the mailing scripts and send 1 email per person
for all the 9 categories they can vote for. If we don't change the
mailing system then it means > 513k emails.

This is not going to happen as long as I am root on the maemo servers.
We are not going to become a spammer organization no matter what.

I would suggest to revise the plans and take this voting to a web based
system.

ferenc

I'm totally pissed and very near sending all the donations back (losing the PayPal fees) and say "screw the N900s and N9s!".

edit2: calmed a little bit. no I won't send back the donations. We'll lead this competition to a success. Period.

A possibility could be to filter the voters a little bit more, also based on karma.
Do you see any other way?
web-based-service: I won't give the email-addresses to _any_ webservice.

edit3: or just set up a forum voting. just like the last time. :/

zehjotkah

2011-11-08 11:25

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

I suggest following maemo-community [at] maemo [dot] org for the discussion.

pelago

2011-11-08 11:28

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

It would be interesting if they could give figures on how the number varies with different karma thresholds, and if they could say at which number of users they are happy emailing (e.g. are they happy when the number goes below 10,000, below 5,000, or what, and what karma threshold does this correspond to).

Helmuth

2011-11-08 12:53

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

What karma threshold is used for the council election?

Perhaps we could bend our rules a little bit and use just the same karma.

afaq	2011-11-08 12:58

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Why cant we host the votes on TMO - and only allow TMO users who qualify to vote to participate in the vote? Sounds simple in my head but i'm sure this also has complexities.

We can then send one email to that user telling them elections are live and they should come to a <URL> to cast their vote.

reinob

2011-11-08 13:14

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

@zehjotkah,

One way to avoid calling this "spam" would be to have each person who wishes to vote send an e-mail (opt-in). Then the server checks if the person is qualified to vote and sends the 9 e-mails in one batch,

Hence it would be more like "on-demand voting" which would (1) clearly not be spam, and (2) spread (in time) the sending of e-mails, given that nobody would expect everyone (interested) to send the opt-in e-mail at the same time.

I really don't expect that >50K people will have interest in voting. So with the opt-in system (plus sufficient "publicity" so that people are at least aware of this) the number would be much more reduced.

PS: and please, if you filter on karma, make sure that karma >= 15 can still vote, otherwise I'm hosed :)

reinob

2011-11-08 13:15

Re: MeeGo Coding Competition 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by afaq (Post 1119955)

We can then send one email to that user telling them elections are live and they should come to a <URL> to cast their vote.

But each voter gets a (unique) token, which has to be communicated somehow (individually). Hence the requirement for 1 (or 9) e-mails per potential voter.

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