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-   -   Gartner: Android wins, MS fails, Nokia fails (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73238)

Capt'n Corrupt 2011-05-19 22:01
Re: Gartner: Android wins, MS fails, Nokia fails
 
I think Dan and richwhite both make good points. WP7 is not doing terribly well in the market, and it is a new OS in terms of market positioning and (possibly) codebase, so it's a bit early to ring the death knell.

richwhite 2011-05-19 22:02
Re: Gartner: Android wins, MS fails, Nokia fails
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjmackey (Post 1010487)
Well, no. The "W" at the beginning of both of the OS names stands for Windows.

Those of us who breathe this stuff in and out just like air know they are really different beasts. The vast majority of people see Microsoft, Windows and one version of the OS is simply a revision of the previous version.

The time it's going to take is the time it will take to change that perception - a whole different task to growing the market for a new, fresh off the presses, OS.
Agreed, but on the flip side, i know one single person who owns a WinMo (HTC HD2), no one else i know has even heard of it. So for the general unwashed masses i don't think many people have a bad taste in their mouth regarding MS in the mobile world

qwazix 2011-05-19 22:46
Re: Gartner: Android wins, MS fails, Nokia fails
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken-Young (Post 1010474)
It's an interesting sign of just how out-of-touch Microsoft is that it thinks adding "Windows" to the name of a new OS makes it more attractive to consumers.
yes and the funny thing is there isn't a single window on that UX
The question "are you still using windows?" is starting to float around more and more. They've got to get it, the windows brand has aged...

On the other hand several bugs and "features" like the delayed answer indicate at least some shared code with WinMo, so it's not completely new.
________
White widow seeds

danramos 2011-05-19 22:50
Re: Gartner: Android wins, MS fails, Nokia fails
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richwhite (Post 1010492)
Agreed, but on the flip side, i know one single person who owns a WinMo (HTC HD2), no one else i know has even heard of it. So for the general unwashed masses i don't think many people have a bad taste in their mouth regarding MS in the mobile world
Back to anecdotal evidence? :) On the other hand, considering all the people I know who've owned smartphones over the years, I know MANY, MANY people, who don't currently own a Windows Mobile phone but used to--and will never go back to one because of the bad taste it left in their mouth on various levels (the OS was awful, the devices were far too expensive compared to competitors, the number of apps were ALWAYS far fewer than most other platforms... even in the days when Windows was performing better, it was never a particularly good experience to own a Windows Mobile phone and watch other people over the years being happier and doing more with their Treos or iPhones and so on).

I think that, despite the fact that Windows Phone 7 is based on all-new code, it's still having to contend with its Windows Mobile legacy that extends far out beyond just the code base.

qwazix 2011-05-19 22:50
Re: Gartner: Android wins, MS fails, Nokia fails
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richwhite (Post 1010489)
, or have heard of an FM transmitter. Now, can you imagine Apple having features no other device has and not telling people? No.
oh yeah, I went to the states last summer and I remember all the faces my relatives had when I hijacked their car radio with the N900, it was hilarious
________
Evia

qwazix 2011-05-19 22:56
Re: Gartner: Android wins, MS fails, Nokia fails
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1010515)
Back to anecdotal evidence? :) On the other hand, considering all the people I know who've owned smartphones over the years, I know MANY, MANY people, who don't currently own a Windows Mobile phone but used to--and will never go back to one because of the bad taste it left in their mouth on various levels (the OS was awful, the devices were far too expensive compared to competitors, the number of apps were ALWAYS far fewer than most other platforms... even in the days when Windows was performing better, it was never a particularly good experience to own a Windows Mobile phone and watch other people over the years being happier and doing more with their Treos or iPhones and so on).

I think that, despite the fact that Windows Phone 7 is based on all-new code, it's still having to contend with its Windows Mobile legacy that extends far out beyond just the code base.
basically with that name they carry along all the bad feelings they created with 6 awful versions of WinMo and none of the good ones.
Even if one had good feelings about winmo he will be disappointed to see his apps not working anymore. 6.5 to 7 doesnt feel very much of a change to the average user...
________
COLORADO MARIJUANA DISPENSARY

richwhite 2011-05-19 23:06
Re: Gartner: Android wins, MS fails, Nokia fails
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1010515)
Back to anecdotal evidence? :) On the other hand, considering all the people I know who've owned smartphones over the years, I know MANY, MANY people, who don't currently own a Windows Mobile phone but used to--and will never go back to one because of the bad taste it left in their mouth on various levels (the OS was awful, the devices were far too expensive compared to competitors, the number of apps were ALWAYS far fewer than most other platforms... even in the days when Windows was performing better, it was never a particularly good experience to own a Windows Mobile phone and watch other people over the years being happier and doing more with their Treos or iPhones and so on).

I think that, despite the fact that Windows Phone 7 is based on all-new code, it's still having to contend with its Windows Mobile legacy that extends far out beyond just the code base.
Yes, that's true, but in all honesty how many of the teenage Android and iPhone users do you think used WinMo 5 or 6? My money is on very few. But we're in different countries, i've never even seen a WinMo device in shops, it might well be different in America. For older phone users i'm sure the story is different, for those 15-25 i don't see previous WinMo experience being an issue. Nor for apps or it being 'old', because the UI is fresh, the navigation is fresh, and a lot of marketing is going into it being a young device - XBox integration, facebook integration and so on, with the Office and Skydrive integration for the business users too. I used WinMo 5, it didn't put me off WP7 because i'm not ******ed enough to think it's the same OS. I also tried a demo out in store and liked the fluidity. I don't know how you choose phones or try phones, but i do know that phone technology in the UK is so different than the USA, and in a far more positive way too. More of the individuals actually know about the OSs the phones run, there's more choice on the market, a broader display of phones are seen everyday, buying SIM free is much easier and cheaper to run than in the States.

I think you're deluding yourself if you think WP7 is starting slow because WinMo sucked. I think it has far, far more to do with it a) being released with limited features when we're used to more b) people being tied into contracts c) people waiting for it to get an update and more apps d) now people waiting for Nokia WP7. But mostly i think it's a) and b), and very, very little to do with MS's past endeavours.

danramos 2011-05-19 23:10
Re: Gartner: Android wins, MS fails, Nokia fails
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1010516)
oh yeah, I went to the states last summer and I remember all the faces my relatives had when I hijacked their car radio with the N900, it was hilarious
Considering most new cars have A2DP bluetooth, this is less and less of a compelling feature--especially if it can't carry with it the ID3 tag info that some radios even support over A2DP. More importantly, it's so cheap to get a tiny FM transmitter that it's hardly a selling point. I picked one up a few years ago to use with my Palm Tungsten TX for listening to podcasts on the car radio.. it was under $10 and works with ANYTHING with a headphone jack.. even if I bought a new device. I began using it with my N800, until I started using bluetooth to listen to podcasts and then got a receiver for my car to also do bluetooth and I've avoided using FM ever since. FAR better quality and control with bluetooth in the car. Since the bluetooth adapter in the car is portable, I take it with my no matter the car, too--even works in my old '74 VW Beetle (AM-only radio... so FM transmitter wouldn't work there).

Just saying, at least in the US, FM transmitter is becoming the lower-quality alternative to bluetooth which is quickly becoming more ubiquitous in cars, headphones, speakers and other devices.

danramos 2011-05-19 23:21
Re: Gartner: Android wins, MS fails, Nokia fails
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richwhite (Post 1010526)
Yes, that's true, but in all honesty how many of the teenage Android and iPhone users do you think used WinMo 5 or 6? My money is on very few. But we're in different countries, i've never even seen a WinMo device in shops, it might well be different in America. For older phone users i'm sure the story is different, for those 15-25 i don't see previous WinMo experience being an issue. Nor for apps or it being 'old', because the UI is fresh, the navigation is fresh, and a lot of marketing is going into it being a young device - XBox integration, facebook integration and so on, with the Office and Skydrive integration for the business users too. I used WinMo 5, it didn't put me off WP7 because i'm not ******ed enough to think it's the same OS. I also tried a demo out in store and liked the fluidity. I don't know how you choose phones or try phones, but i do know that phone technology in the UK is so different than the USA, and in a far more positive way too. More of the individuals actually know about the OSs the phones run, there's more choice on the market, a broader display of phones are seen everyday, buying SIM free is much easier and cheaper to run than in the States.

I think you're deluding yourself if you think WP7 is starting slow because WinMo sucked. I think it has far, far more to do with it a) being released with limited features when we're used to more b) people being tied into contracts c) people waiting for it to get an update and more apps d) now people waiting for Nokia WP7. But mostly i think it's a) and b), and very, very little to do with MS's past endeavours.
I think your timeline for Windows Mobile is strange. Windows Mobile was still trying to compete with the likes of Palm's Treo up until very recently. Let's not forget that the iPhone only just came out June 29, 2007. That's four years. It hasn't been so many years that even teens might not remember those god-awful HP phones with Windows Mobile that looked so chunky and worked so terribly--and those were supposed to be the hottest Windows Mobile phones.

I don't think I'm deluding myself. I believe Microsoft and Nokia, both really, have degraded their brand.

PS: Garyc2011... I suggest you seek immediate medical attention for whatever that is that you've got. Please, we're concerned for you.

qwazix 2011-05-19 23:31
Re: Gartner: Android wins, MS fails, Nokia fails
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1010529)
Considering most new cars have A2DP bluetooth, this is less and less of a compelling feature--especially if it can't carry with it the ID3 tag info that some radios even support over A2DP. More importantly, it's so cheap to get a tiny FM transmitter that it's hardly a selling point. I picked one up a few years ago to use with my Palm Tungsten TX for listening to podcasts on the car radio.. it was under $10 and works with ANYTHING with a headphone jack.. even if I bought a new device. I began using it with my N800, until I started using bluetooth to listen to podcasts and then got a receiver for my car to also do bluetooth and I've avoided using FM ever since. FAR better quality and control with bluetooth in the car. Since the bluetooth adapter in the car is portable, I take it with my no matter the car, too--even works in my old '74 VW Beetle (AM-only radio... so FM transmitter wouldn't work there).

Just saying, at least in the US, FM transmitter is becoming the lower-quality alternative to bluetooth which is quickly becoming more ubiquitous in cars, headphones, speakers and other devices.
Oh yeah, I almost never use it, I've got BT too but it's nice to make pranks with it. It's funny and it harms nobody.

However, it's nice to be able to listen to your music virtually everywhere (eg on friends' cars, rent a car, grandparents home etc) and it's easier than bt (pairing and such).
________
VOLCANO VAPORIZER


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