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-   -   PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community. (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73419)

Stskeeps 2011-06-02 06:50
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemangordon (Post 1020704)
OK, to be clear - there is no way SGX driver to be build in scratchbox using source from repository. There are several header files missing and nowhere to be found(at least legally). Like pvr2d.h and such. The same ones stskeeps is maintaining for DE, just an older version. And what drives me crasy is that it seems there is a SGX driver fork made especially for Nokia, as from year now TI Graphics SDK is free to be downloaded. But it is usless for n900.

@stskeeps - are you allowed to share under which license n900 SGX SDK is distributed, and if you are will you share it(I mean the license)?
Ah, that's what you were hinting at. Do you have nokia-closed repository in your scratchbox?

AFAIK the opengles-img-sgx development headers (which are in scratchbox) should have those.

Daneel 2011-06-02 07:00
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Sarcasm is not an act of stupidity, it actually is a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark.
I didn't detect any sarcasm In your post, it went off the charts with stupidity though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1020660)
You did not even pick up on the sarcasm but never mind eh.

abill_uk 2011-06-02 07:03
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020687)
There's no way but the official route. Are you asking me to breach my contract and do criminal activities, opening myself to civil suit for damages and criminal prosecution?

Are you stupid?
Your proving to me all the time that you and the CSSU team are miles apart and by the looks of it will stay that way.

We have a strange situation on our hands here in that your the MeeGo build and the CSSU are the Maemo build and as you have already stated you will never bend a rule so it will always be a case of Maemo v MeeGo.

The more reason for this Poll.

But you keep coming in this thread and pushing MeeGo and never talk about Maemo at all.

freemangordon 2011-06-02 07:06
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020707)
Ah, that's what you were hinting at. Do you have nokia-closed repository in your scratchbox?

AFAIK the opengles-img-sgx development headers (which are in scratchbox) should have those.
Of course I have the repos enabled, it is a part of scratchbox installation . opengles-img-sgx-dev (and others) are just missing those headers.

My point is - if there is some legal violation not including headers needed to build SGX xorg driver it could be a start point to contact Nokia asking to release at least what should be released. Not talking about legal actions or so. But once communication channel established it could ease further requests.

EDIT: Wil you answer my question re SGX SDK license, please?

ScottishDuck 2011-06-02 07:07
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1020713)
Your proving to me all the time that you and the CSSU team are miles apart and by the looks if it will stay that way.

We have a strange situation on our hands here in that your the MeeGo build and the CSSU are the Maemo build and as you have already stated you will never bend a rule so it will always be a case of Maemo v MeeGo.

The more reason for this Poll.
You are quickly approaching the peak of mt. idiot. If you want someone to break the law then feel free to do it yourself. In the meanwhile shut up.

Stskeeps is being civil despite your constant *****ing, moaning and attacking. Show some respect.

abill_uk 2011-06-02 07:10
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottishDuck (Post 1020715)
You are quickly approaching the peak of mt. idiot. If you want someone to break the law then feel free to do it yourself. In the meanwhile shut up.

Stskeeps is being civil despite your constant *****ing, moaning and attacking. Show some respect.
Between you and Daneel your attacking is more and more obvious.

ScottishDuck 2011-06-02 07:13
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1020717)
Between you and Daneel your attacking is more and more obvious.
I'm attacking you because you are demanding a developer break the law. It is absurd. You are absurd. This thread is absurd.

On top of it all you avoid responding to any valid criticism. You're either deluded or butthurt, probably both.

Daneel 2011-06-02 07:17
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Did you figure that out on your own? I though my statement about your unlimited capacity for incapacity possessed a subtle quality that was only revealed to the most observant of minds, i guess i underestimated you.

Please accept my apologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1020717)
Between you and Daneel your attacking is more and more obvious.

abill_uk 2011-06-02 07:22
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
The title of this thread is PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community and now we have a full blown MeeGo discussion going on here so may i remind everyone to please stay on topic?..

momcilo 2011-06-02 07:22
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020667)
* BME, redistributable binary blob
Ha!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020667)
* TI OMAP3 SGX drivers, userland, redistributable binary blobs, matches with a kernel side driver that's fairly OK to forward port.
Yes for this we have to ask TI politely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020667)
* Misc calibration tools for wlan, redistributable binary blobs, only really depending on a WLAN driver kernel interface
This sounds fishy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020667)
* PulseAudio algorithms for 3GPP compliance, redistributable binary blobs (you won't get good sound without this)
Not good if you plan to use your phone as communication device
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020667)
* Xorg driver for SGX, open source, but links to closed source SGX drivers (PVR2D interface, etc)
As useful as a broken window
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020667)
* Open source ofono/telephony driver and pulseaudio modules for speech communication with modem
Are both driver and modules open source, or just driver?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020667)
* Camera firmware, open source (it's really just register poking). Basic camera features work without blobs.
Here we go again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020667)
* Upcoming: blobs for accessing AGPS and almost Maemo5-quality camera usage.

Quote:
For each of the closed source bits, we're actively exploring opportunities how to 1) build these in the future in case it's needed and 2) how to avoid situations where they cease to work.
Here is the best choice: open specification or/and release existing drivers under GPL. Any other option turns us into beggars.

Quote:
As said above, rest of platform is OSS, including applications. You won't easily find sane hardware that doesn't in some way require closed blobs on ARM side. And don't say the Freerunner.
I say Neo Freerunner, except for the Glamo.

Quote:
Given that the blobs exist and they are redistributable and usable, it's a better situation than not having them at all.
Are you sure these binary redistributables are GPL compliant?

ScottishDuck 2011-06-02 07:25
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1020725)
The title of this thread is PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community and now we have a full blown MeeGo discussion going on here so may i remind everyone to please stay on topic?..
Sorry I thought we were discussing you requesting a developer to illegally release code... or are you once again avoiding criticism? Oh, right.

abill_uk 2011-06-02 07:29
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
I am going to make a formal request here to stskeeps to PLEASE open up his own thread to talk about MeeGo because it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Please read my opening post on this thread and you will see not one word of MeeGo in that post and as the topic is about the release of Maemo code just what has MeeGo got to do with it?.

momcilo 2011-06-02 07:30
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020687)
There's no way but the official route. Are you asking me to breach my contract and do criminal activities, opening myself to civil suit for damages and criminal prosecution?

Are you stupid?
Stskeeps.

Here are some questions on my behalf. I don't expect you to answer them if the answers can bring you to bad legal situation or financial loss.

1. Is there any complete list of all OSS licenses used among the program (770, 800, 810, 900)?

2. Do you know how some of these licenses were circumvented?

3. Are there any parts of your contract that forbid you to talk about above questions and/or this question?

momcilo 2011-06-02 07:32
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1020725)
The title of this thread is PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community and now we have a full blown MeeGo discussion going on here so may i remind everyone to please stay on topic?..
good work abill_uk, thats the reason I am always repeating 770, 800, 810, 900, just not to forget anything.

abill_uk 2011-06-02 07:35
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by momcilo (Post 1020730)
Stskeeps.

Here are some questions on my behalf. I don't expect you to answer them if the answers can bring you to bad legal situation or financial loss.

1. Is there any complete list of all OSS licenses used among the program (770, 800, 810, 900)?

2. Do you know how some of these licenses were circumvented?

3. Are there any parts of your contract that forbid you to talk about above questions and/or this question?
Your points are very worthwhile and the comments coming out of stskeeps are only proving he wants nothing whatsoever to do with the Maemo os and supports that by the breaking the law statement he has made.

Many things are coming out of the woodwork here and for those who think i am asking stupid questions need to realise there is more than one way the cookie crumbles and to get TRUE opinions from someone you have to go to some lengths sometimes !, please realise that before making attacking comments.

PS i am anything but stupid trust me !.

ScottishDuck 2011-06-02 07:36
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1020729)
I am going to make a formal request here to stskeeps to PLEASE open up his own thread to talk about MeeGo because it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Please read my opening post on this thread and you will see not one word of MeeGo in that post and as the topic is about the release of Maemo code just what has MeeGo got to do with it?.
I'll reiterate. You asked Stskeeps to illegally release code. This was nothing to do with meego. It was to do with driver code that is also part of maemo being illegally released. You have yet to address why you thought that was in any way appropriate.

Stskeeps is not distancing himself from maemo by denying your request that he break the law. He is distancing himself from an idiot.

Stskeeps 2011-06-02 07:39
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemangordon (Post 1020714)
Of course I have the repos enabled, it is a part of scratchbox installation . opengles-img-sgx-dev (and others) are just missing those headers.

My point is - if there is some legal violation not including headers needed to build SGX xorg driver it could be a start point to contact Nokia asking to release at least what should be released. Not talking about legal actions or so. But once communication channel established it could ease further requests.

EDIT: Wil you answer my question re SGX SDK license, please?
There's no legal violation in that you can't build it, as MIT/X11 doesn't state those kind of demands.

SGX SDK license is nasty for Maemo5 (== nokia-binaries EULA). It was first afterwards that you could get redistributable binaries of SGX libraries from TI.

Out of curiousity, what did you want to modify?

The MeeGo ones are more liberally licensed and if you want to do anything serious. The downside is of course that these need Xorg 1.9.0 and other things for that.

abill_uk 2011-06-02 07:41
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
THANKYOU Texrat !.

Stskeeps 2011-06-02 07:43
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by momcilo (Post 1020730)
Stskeeps.

Here are some questions on my behalf. I don't expect you to answer them if the answers can bring you to bad legal situation or financial loss.

1. Is there any complete list of all OSS licenses used among the program (770, 800, 810, 900)?

2. Do you know how some of these licenses were circumvented?

3. Are there any parts of your contract that forbid you to talk about above questions and/or this question?
It's Debian, go look at debian/copyright for the packages that are OS'ed.

Circumvented? Please read up on the licensing texts in particular - I think you might have a bit of overinterpretation of how FOSS licenses actually work. Just because there's one GPL component it doesn't mean everything has to be OSS.

Nokia's honestly very good at checking these things.

Forbid? All this is public information, go look at repository.maemo.org.

Stskeeps 2011-06-02 07:45
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1020725)
The title of this thread is PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community and now we have a full blown MeeGo discussion going on here so may i remind everyone to please stay on topic?..
Dude, you started by saying MeeGo wasn't open, I answered. I even pointed this fact out in my own post.

You can't expect your baseless claims to be unanswered :)

abill_uk 2011-06-02 07:47
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020742)
Dude, you started by saying MeeGo wasn't open, I answered. I even pointed this fact out in my own post.

You can't expect your baseless claims to be unanswered :)
What you do not realise is i have made good use of your posts to prove some points here.

abill_uk 2011-06-02 07:50
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Now please allow topic discussion to take place and get back on topic thankyou.

The count now stands at 559 for and 22 against and i would say up to now that is overwhelming odds for Maemo to be further developed.

Thankyou to the Community and please keep the votes coming in.

Daneel 2011-06-02 07:51
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
What a tool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1020743)
What you do not realise is i have made good use of your posts to prove some points here.

Stskeeps 2011-06-02 07:56
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
So, this is my last post in this thread as it has turned ridicolous by now.

I'll just summarize what has happened so far:
* abill_uk has hinted people to break the law and their contracts to publish code (which was the straw for me).
* Several arguments for why this cannot work has been made.
* There is no way that the full source code of Maemo5 can be published. Especially because of 3rd party IPR - think Flash, Skype, SGX drivers, etc. This makes the petition useless and it will not help anything.
* There has been (also in the past) statements that applications are not going to be open sourced.

momcilo, if you have specific questions about components and licensing, I'd like to take that in another thread. But please do your homework on how open source licensing works as I think you have misconceptions.

freemangordon, I'd like to help you with your fbdev problem, so feel free to poke me on #meego-arm IRC.

abill_uk 2011-06-02 08:04
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020748)
So, this is my last post in this thread as it has turned ridicolous by now.

I'll just summarize what has happened so far:
* abill_uk has hinted people to break the law and their contracts to publish code (which was the straw for me).
* Several arguments for why this cannot work has been made.
* There is no way that the full source code of Maemo5 can be published. Especially because of 3rd party IPR - think Flash, Skype, SGX drivers, etc. This makes the petition useless and it will not help anything.
* There has been (also in the past) statements that applications are not going to be open sourced.

momcilo, if you have specific questions about components and licensing, I'd like to take that in another thread. But please do your homework on how open source licensing works as I think you have misconceptions.

freemangordon, I'd like to help you with your fbdev problem, so feel free to poke me on #meego-arm IRC.
Thankyou for that and please do something for yourself and open up your own MeeGo thread for disussion as i feel it will help you much more than this thread will.

Also please keep up the work on MeeGo adaption for the N900 and i promise you that if it even gets to the point it is a fully programmable os taking over the Maemo os you will have my 100% backing !.
Right now it is not a lot at all and from a developers eyes looking in a little dissapointing so i want you to prove me wrong and get MeeGo up and running as fast as you can, i wish you all the luck in gaining dev's for your project but right now as it stands there is nothing to even touch the Maemo os for the N900.

Maemo stands firm in this community as it is after all Maemo.org and the reason for this Poll.

Frappacino 2011-06-02 08:07
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020687)
There's no way but the official route. Are you asking me to breach my contract and do criminal activities, opening myself to civil suit for damages and criminal prosecution?

Are you stupid?
haha do you even have to ask - you put up the petition after all :)

I am surprised you are still arguing with this "software engineer" who has been through it all.

While I do not advocate a ban, I do advocate taking his "peak of stupid" posts and stickying it on top of this forum.

Provides a bit of levity to a generally down atmosphere.

abill_uk 2011-06-02 08:11
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frappacino (Post 1020753)
haha do you even have to ask - you put up the petition after all :)

I am surprised you are still arguing with this "software engineer" who has been through it all.
The "official route" should have been Maemo JOINING with MeeGo and not a conflict situation that is going on now.

ScottishDuck 2011-06-02 08:12
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frappacino (Post 1020753)
haha do you even have to ask - you put up the petition after all :)

I am surprised you are still arguing with this "software engineer" who has been through it all.
Yes he's so used to coding that he can't use English properly, some would even say he has reverted to childlike levels of grammar and spelling. Not to imply that he is, in fact, not a software engineer but just a kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk
The "official route" should have been Maemo JOINING with MeeGo and not a conflict situation that is going on now.
That's impossible, how hard is that to understand? There is no conflict. We have a dead OS and we have a new OS.

Frappacino 2011-06-02 08:15
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
I would give him the benefit of the doubt as english is a second language to most ppl - and plenty of non english speakers can code just fine :)

His chain of logic is just.... well... i am speechless. I think I will have to go to urban dictionary to find some new adjectives.

Seriously - he claims to have been through IP battles in court over reverse engineering issues. With his logic I think he got bulldozed by a lawyer in open court.

Sorry, asking someone else to break the law on an open forum for his sake when he is constantly putting down that person....

hahahhahahha

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottishDuck (Post 1020755)
Yes he's so used to coding that he can't use English properly, some would even say he has reverted to childlike levels of grammar and spelling. Not to imply that he is, in fact, not a software engineer but just a kid.

abill_uk 2011-06-02 08:37
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frappacino (Post 1020759)
I would give him the benefit of the doubt as english is a second language to most ppl - and plenty of non english speakers can code just fine :)

His chain of logic is just.... well... i am speechless. I think I will have to go to urban dictionary to find some new adjectives.

Seriously - he claims to have been through IP battles in court over reverse engineering issues. With his logic I think he got bulldozed by a lawyer in open court.

Sorry, asking someone else to break the law on an open forum for his sake when he is constantly putting down that person....

hahahhahahha
You are not on topic and instead attacking joining in with support from scottich duck.

Can i please remind you to stay on topic and stop the attacks.

ScottishDuck 2011-06-02 08:39
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1020766)
You are not on topic and instead attacking joining in with support from scottich duck.

Can i please remind you to stay on topic and stop the attacks.
OK back on topic. Why did you ask a developer to break the law?

Daneel 2011-06-02 09:03
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Total Nincompoop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1020751)
Thankyou for that and please do something for yourself and open up your own MeeGo thread for disussion as i feel it will help you much more than this thread will.

Also please keep up the work on MeeGo adaption for the N900 and i promise you that if it even gets to the point it is a fully programmable os taking over the Maemo os you will have my 100% backing !.
Right now it is not a lot at all and from a developers eyes looking in a little dissapointing so i want you to prove me wrong and get MeeGo up and running as fast as you can, i wish you all the luck in gaining dev's for your project but right now as it stands there is nothing to even touch the Maemo os for the N900.

Maemo stands firm in this community as it is after all Maemo.org and the reason for this Poll.

9000 2011-06-02 09:29
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Shouldn't we start a new petition "PETITION to Stskeeps to release the full source code of whatever-he-is-working-on to this Community." so that we could end the debate here?

ysss 2011-06-02 09:35
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Imma start a PETITION for people to start doing things, rather than making more POINTLESS PETITIONS asking people about what they want...

on a relevant note, where do you want to go today? (tm)

Hurrian 2011-06-02 09:43
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Holy ****, abill_uk.
Since you're an experienced software/hardware engineer, why not develop your own SGX driver? It's a FSF high-priority project after all, and you can wave your e-pen0r around when you're done.
Point is, the Meego N900 DE team are working with software components freely redistributable but don't work with Maemo for various reasons, or components they made themselves/patched up other OSS projects.

momcilo 2011-06-02 10:03
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurrian (Post 1020800)
Holy ****, abill_uk.
Since you're an experienced software/hardware engineer, why not develop your own SGX driver? It's a FSF high-priority project after all, and you can wave your e-pen0r around when you're done.
Point is, the Meego N900 DE team are working with software components freely redistributable but don't work with Maemo for various reasons, or components they made themselves/patched up other OSS projects.
Without any irony or malice:
PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community

There is no meego in it.

9000 2011-06-02 10:11
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by momcilo (Post 1020814)
Without any irony or malice:
PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community

There is no meego in it.
Darn, I read it as "PETITION to Microsoft to release the full source code of the Mango OS to this community" during voting!

My bad! Is there any way I could retract my 'Yes' now? No?

momcilo 2011-06-02 10:15
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1020748)
momcilo, if you have specific questions about components and licensing, I'd like to take that in another thread. But please do your homework on how open source licensing works as I think you have misconceptions.
Yes I have to do my homework.

Stskeeps, you may notice that in many ways I share some level of agreement with abill_uk on this topic.

As for misconceptions, please note that what I am asking is not the following:
N900 (hardware is not of interest) + Meego + closed propriatory bits of nokia + closed propitiatory bits of third parties

I am asking for the following:
open source hardware drivers for all of the device (770, 800, 810, 900 and maybe future device).

Yes you have provided the status of these components for n900, not for the other devices. You have stated we should be safe with closed source drivers, but have you ever had a machine with Broadcom wifi module, and did you ever experience the reliability of a similarly designed blobs?

I have, if you didn't you may want to spend some time in exploring how this really works in reality (EDIT: I mean user experience, I am know you are extremely capable guy).

In short I simply want fully open platform DEVICE+DRIVERS+OS

ndi 2011-06-02 11:32
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 102073)
PS i am anything but stupid trust me !.
Well, I guess that settles that.

Andre Klapper 2011-06-02 12:34
Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1018614)
This is sad to read as you are putting a definitive gap between Maemo and MeeGo, have you any idea how people would react if you actually helped in any way the cause for Maemo?.

Is money all that matters to you?.
You're again putting words in other people's mouths, you fail to realize the difference between people just describing a situation and people's personal opinions, and you also belittle all the great stuff that Stskeeps actually has done for Maemo (and MeeGo), especially compared to you just talking here without any action whatsoever...


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