Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

This is the bit that gets to me and i fail to understand why stskeeps and the CSSU team do not openly work together posting progress on this forum, it would make a lot of people breathe a sigh of relief knowing something concrete is happening.

Yes i think you are right in that we will not get to see the Maemo code from source but i do hope this Poll makes someone somewhere move there Arss to put it bluntly as it if nothing else lets everyone know the interest in the N900 to date.

The actions erlier on kind of shook me because i never expected such behaviour from that individual so i am in kind of shock more at the moment and probably not making the best of my posts so please forgive me ok.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

abill give up on your quest for opening remaining code, people have been asking for years and was successful to a certain extent b/c nokia released lot new code during the life of Maemo 5 to help certain project.
But no more will be released and its worthless to try and do what stkeeps and others tried do for years with mixed success before moving on.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

I don't see this secrecy as a personal preference of stskeeps and others. I can not really blame them. There were several attempts in creating an alternative distribution, and all of them have failed due to the closed source nature of critical hardware components.

The thing is probably regulated within their contracts. I suspect that it is essentially gag order. I don't expect them to confirm, since this is probably also covered.

Before accusing stskeeps and others please note that they have also invested significant efforts and time in this program themselves, to be found obsolete by a new Nokia strategy.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

IYes you are most likely to be right on that one and i am still happy to start this poll because it proves the interest still there and will make dev's happy to know this i am sure.

My wish is stskeeps share as much as he can and for him to move a little quicker than he has done as people do seem to be rather sick of the waiting game.

No flaming here no name calling or anything bad being said from me, i just want to sit back and see where this goes now.

I will say again that although i started this Poll it is purely for this Community to venture out and let everyone know there feelings so i will now pass this over to everyone and take a rest from posting if you dont mind.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

Last words for a while DAMMMM Nokia !!!!.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

So what is the plan?

We all email the council to pressurise release of BME and dialler code to MAG and/or joerg?

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

Seems like all this flaming nonsense has blown through, I hope. So, now for some proper discussion.

What pressure can be exerted, by who and on whom, in order to fix those functions which do not perform as advertised/reasonably_expected*.

The release could be by PR (or equiv.) (unlikely) or code, which would require an amount of effort to. Are there any cases where the interface (inc. comments) would suffice and where the release of the implementation isn't required?

In addition to any code that might be released, documents and code-comments are much needed.

Instead of a yes/no poll, a top 10/top 20 list of fixes. BME and dialer are mentioned, for me it's vsync and video frame-drops that gripe. In many ways, I don't mind that much about all the code but I mind a lot when the device doesn't do what it says on the tin or features have been unreasonably turned off (e.g. input devices) and yet, I'm obliged to pay for it all the same.

*see previous posts for explanation.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

I would like to see it happen, voted YES but I will not hold my breath.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

There's been like literally manyears been put into talking Nokia into this BME disclosing thing, and bottom line: it won't happen. My last take on it been I'm not even interested in disclosure of BME as it's evidently of really low quality and we have better means meanwhile for charging battery.
There are however a truckload of closed things in maemo that *should* get disclosed (as you frequently see them getting disclosed to meego folks as soon as they ask for it :-/ - even without any notice to maemo community about the fact).
Some of them being:
# the parts of modem management stack that handle SMS-CB (the cell broadcast that's evidently handled by a buggy piece of SW which results in no way to interface it or just get meaningful logs in syslog: the string of received msg is empty due to a bug),
# the hal-addon-bme that tells hal about battery status, so any replacement for bme could do proper charging-state reporting, bat-low warnings and actual system shutdown
# dialer, plus all the IPC it does and also the obscure chat it does to BME and whatnot else
# mce and all its plugins, so we could finally handle e.g. kbd-backlight and ALS controlled screen brightness in a useful non-annoying manner, among other things
# *FULL* correct documentation of the N900 flavour of ISI, including the GPS parts as GPS is hooked to modem, not to APE
.... etc etc pp

Last effort regarding all this been by johnwil and me, like 3 months ago -> result: as usual - much effort put in to deliver rationale and reason, to spot the parts we NEED and single out the ones Nokia can keep, and the BIG VOID as a reaction from Nokia, though council supported that effort and promised to talk to Nokia. I've never heard anything about it after that.

I simply can't agree with texrat's notion either (and probably stskeep's) regarding code quality. For most things I do simply not care about code quality, I just need the header files and the only documentation about how those obscure things work inside: the sourcecode, however ugly it might be. It's a real bold slander and gross disrespect against maemo community and N900 customers at large, to answer repeated requests for opening up e.g audio / mce things with WONTFIX or mere silence, while disclosing the same maemo things to meego-arm folks without any problems, just for asking politely.
That's what really makes me feel pissed by Nokia. And I don't think they will care to change anything about it now that they don't even care about meego anymore basically

have to stop here before this gets to long and emotional

/jOERG

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

I didn't come to my recent conclusion easily, guys. I had to face grim reality. That is not the same as giving up or in. I would still like to see the complete Maemo 5 (and others actually) code released to the community. But reality is an *** kicker.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

ya i do..the screen auto fits to the whole area and once we complete writting its a lil tricky to run out..what i do is bring in the virtual keypad and press done then scroll down to post....:D

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

@joerg_rw: wholly agree, regarding which groups have received the code. Pretty disgraceful behaviour and a perhaps an indicator of why profits are not better - look after your current customers before you seek new ones (bird in the hand and all that). Yes, it would be quicker and probably cheaper [for Nokia etc.] to release the code if it's as rubbish as is reported.
*Don't anyone bash me for my comments on Nokia's attitude - my facetiousness is because I think many of us seem to be acquiring brick imprints on our foreheads; but bone is stronger than stone (in tension and rotation, anyway)!

One idea might be to campaign for equal status - repeat this petition with something like "Any code released by Nokia and device partners to develop Meego, should also be released to develop/maintain existing versions Maemo" - even if only released to certain people with NDAs? Just an idea - what do people think? Please reword in a way that's most likely to achieve the result. I'm keen to iron out the "wontfix in M5 but M6 will work" bugs, where there's no h/w limitation, so something to include that would be good.

@texrat - There are areas where the N900 does not perform as advertised. There is a sliding scale of problem areas from distinctly dodgy through to usable but buggy. Either way, these need to be fixed and releasing code might be a cheaper means of doing this.
How can action be taken to address these cases?

Edit:
@thashku - that's what I meant. I'll have a look through the Opera bugs and see if it's mentioned or I'll file one.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

Poll count now stands at 492 for and 20 against.

Why the 20 have voted no for progression on the N900 is baffling.

@Demolition The Poll does not need to be repeated as it is here for your idea's to be put forward, any help from anyone is welcome here.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

Say....why would iPhone fans want source code from Nokia? :D

Re: PETITION for Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

In case you are curious: I don't think you are talking about a morality boost as in the first paragraph quoted, or a moral boost, as in the other paragraph quoted.

The word you are looking for is "morale".

Though I don't suppose they need a morale boost either. They are doing a great job; they must know that and they must feel good about it already, without whatever boosting you want to provide.

Re: PETITION for Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

Please direct your comments to helping this community and refrain from posts directed at me.

Re: PETITION for Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

I don't suppose that slinging words around randomly without regard to their meaning, implications, or consequences helps the community. Let's wait six months and tote up the benefits this poll unleashes.

Re: PETITION for Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

You should consider running for presidency in the USA, you have that Bush quality.

Re: PETITION for Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

Thank God you didn't ask for Obama's quality, otherwise you'd be executed at where you live while he'd be looking at your panic face on a big screen remotely.

Re: PETITION for Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

A laugh is a good way to start the day, thanks!

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

No politics. Thank you.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

Name one version of Maemo that's been fully opensourced.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

Fun's fun, guys, but skip the politics as well as the slamming of other members. Use the Report tools, please-- and properly, I might add.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

And please stay on topic THANKYOU !.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

People seem to have issues finding figures on what's closed source and what's open source in Maemo5.

http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010...-pr11-and.html

Read the article first, then see http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo...penness/pr1.1/

This is for PR1.1. The figures hasn't really changed much in PR1.2, except that MCE (a later version), a ofono-based telephony stack for N900 modem, camera-firmware and some other things were open sourced. Some bits previously under strict licensing are now redistributable binaries for non-commercial purposes (BME, wifi/bt firmware, pulseaudio codecs/filters for 3GPP compliance, wifi calibration) and redistributable binaries in general (3d drivers).

There are probably some other examples but jetlag keeps me from remembering.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

wtf... you are such an hypocrit... you "fight" to open things... yet you dont share what you know... wow you amaze me abill...

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

there is a very good reason i did not share this but i have given many instructions on how to do.

The issue about Warranty and if you talk with Textrat he will tell you why i did not post complete pics etc.

Even to open your device voids warranty let alone touch it with a soldering station !.

PS please look at my posts on the usb thread and you will see the advice i have given to everyone.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

I have explained this in previous comments to you, however you seem to lack reading skills.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

Poll counts now 502 for and 20 against, thanyou everyone for the votes so far.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

I'm sure Nokia have a very good reason for not sharing too.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

yes i wan't :)

Re: PETITION for Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

You can go shooting people around before having Nobel prize first. It is not a proper thing to do. :D :D :D :D :D :D

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

I wonder how much it would cost Nokia to buy the (C) for all the code they are probably simply not disclosing because it had been done by subcontractors. Then OTOH evidently things like MCE were NO PROBLEM TO DISCLOSE for meego, just they decided to disclose a version that's incompatible with maemo's kernel, and also they left some plugins out. So PRETTY PLEASE explain to me why this was possible to disclose for meego, while maemo wasn't worth the effort?

On an irrelevant sidenote: I offered to sign a NDA and scan that ugly make-my-eyes-bleed code *for free* (modulo my own expenses) and to see what can be done with rewriting header files and general documentation so community could implement replacements without doing weird RE and disassembling, of course always getting review and allowance from $NOKIA for every bit I'd plan to contribute to community knowledge from that - reaction: you guessed it ... ...

Honestly this STINKS

@texrat: don't tell me you must not tell details about WHY Nokia allegedly can not disclose the sources. "It's too ugly" COME ON!!! Are you kidding? We're adults, most of us. And obscure statements about the world in general don't help either to make anybody feel more informed and agreeing on the case, whatever it might be.
To make it a bit more easy for you, *I* wil do it here and now, I'll say the word: PATENT INFRINGEMENT. Now you can either deny there's any such problem, and we're rid of at least one point you possibly aren't allowed to say, or you don't say anything at all and those looking for a new field to patent-troll have found their new target (honestly there's NO patent troll out there that would need anybody saying "Nokia might be afraid of patent trolls" to get the idea they actually were. Anyway now *I* did, so you can do as well and confirm, or you tell us better reasons)

/j

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

Why would iphone users come on here as it is a Maemo forum :p
but ok see your point.

Some good posts coming out of the woodwork and stskeeps can be a key player here !.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

VERY valid point !!!.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

I (personally) think that was doomed to fail, given that you were calling Nokia employees idiots left and right and behaving a bit erratically at the time. That does not inspire confidence to allow something like that to work.

Let's be realistic about what can work in reality and what cannot - we're dealing with real business here.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

This is sad to read as you are putting a definitive gap between Maemo and MeeGo, have you any idea how people would react if you actually helped in any way the cause for Maemo?.

Is money all that matters to you?.

I personally think you could help in a big way !.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

Brilliant, I'm embarrassed to say the domain name didn't click that you were behind that handy audit.

I only got my first N900 in mid 2010, and my second in late 2010, and only had the time to dev on it for the last few months, so kinda missed out on all the discussions pre-PR1.2.

I don't know if you've seen, but I've been advocating moving that info to the Maemo Wiki and updating it for each PR release (and CSSU thereafter), along with info about reimplementation efforts for each closed bit.

That way it's clear what needs to be focussed on to improve matters. There's surprisingly little info about how the components fit together on the wiki, which makes figuring out component interactions more work than it needs to be.

Do I have your permission to duplicate that audit to the wiki? I don't have the nous currently to find out the historical licensing changes, but getting it up there would be a good start.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

Well, there are maybe other reasons for keeping it closed source...
1. competition
2. patent infringement
3. platform control
4. Pure Specilation: One that comes to my mind is close-sourcing of open-source code. :eek:

Has anybody consulted Richard Stallman and FSF people on this subject?

It may be interesting to inspect the compliance of GPL code within maemo versions, and see if Nokia broke any rules. Given the shear number of people working on the project there must be at least one GPL violation. :confused:

In past FSF was successful in enforcing the GPL license terms. It took some time, but nowdays I think it would go much smoother.

Re: PETITION to Nokia to release the full source code of the Maemo OS to this Community.
 

Sorry, but I simply MUST NOT answer what I think would be appropriate

If somebody acts like an idiot I feel free to name that fact. If I think a system looks like it's been designed by fools on crack then I'm telling that, and I give links and evidence to my notion. And when we're talking about real business, OH REALLY?! Then how comes all this feels so childish ("source too ugly"), or maybe just like *real* business, the one where you get a kick in the back on leaving the cashier's desk. I'm totally realistic about what *could* have been done, and there's no need to trust any fool like me (who's been doing this crap for other companies, and there's been no issues with trust, neither with rather harsh words sometimes, when it's been about *things*, not *persons*), no - really no need for anybody like me or you, Nokia could have done the right thing from beginning, and they obviously still *can* do when meego aka you are asking them. They may **** in *my* garden, but I wonder how many customers will follow when somebody is going to ask for REPAIR of the things a normal phone should do, even when it's not written on the box ("you don't need a hammer to press the knobs of this phone" - haha you lose, dear customer, it's not a guaranteed feature of the device). In Europe we got 2 years warranty, you know? So I honestly suggest Nokia darn better does the right thing about maemo *now*, or they give some better rationale than "we don't support maemo anymore, you're supposed to buy a new meego device anyway, as we'll never going to make that maemo thing work like it should. Just wait another 2 years for it to come"

/j