maemo.org - Talk - Plain Qt on Meego

maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- MeeGo / Harmattan (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=45)

- - Plain Qt on Meego (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73780)

Re: Plain Qt on Meego

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1023519)

QtWidget has been marked as *done*

I guess its upto the community to decide if they want to continue improve QtWidgets.

But personally I think in the long run even Desktop apps will use QML or more exact some kind of Widget set based on QML. The KDE team seems altready intrested to use QML in Plasma and also Ubuntu.

But i seems many is taking this as everything will be written in Javascript but that is not true! backends is still C++

http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/09/...ts-about-qt-5/

some of todays drawbacks using QML:

http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/26/...with-qt-quick/

Open GL in nextgen QML

http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/31/...aph-in-master/

QML widget on desktop

http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/03/10/...s-for-desktop/

One more time, I don't want to use QML at all. I want to use plain Qt and don't want the added bloat of QML. This has nothing to do with if it's on desktop or handset. But it seems that Nokia are forcing you to use QML on handset, and possibly on desktop too, and that's what I don't like.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1023516)

FUD Yourself !

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1023516)

Finally one who has tested? O I forgot to say I has ALSO tested!

Nice we can talk seriously

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1023516)

* First of QML doesnt mean we must write everything in Javascript that just ********!

Never said that ... just that currently it s not possible to do everything in qml than we can do with qwidget, maybe i didn't explain it.

Quote:

* Second QML is progressing fast now to be more optimized for Handset/tablets and with QML 2 we have full OpenGL.

We can clearly hope, as currently it s slower to display complex list view display than with qwidget, it s slower to do something correct for the developper, and it s CURRENTLY do everything yourself, even feedback on simple ui element.
[/QUOTE]

Quote:

QML is here to stay QWidgets is on it way out and is not optimized for gestures and touchscreen

Indeed, but at least with theme it s not so bad on Maemo5

Quote:

But people can stay with QWidget if theyr so damn affraid for new stuff. But dont blame anyone if the bugs is not fixed in QtWidgets or if it doesnt work optimnal for touchscreens.

Why abandon it for QML, QML is far to be better, why QWidgets could not be adapted to touchscreens, this is where i didn't understand. But anyway that are their decision, even if i didn't agree.

So what, i m just angry... because it s mean again, trash everything and rewrite ... gtk ... qt ... qml ... and yes it s a rewrite. I'm loosing more time changing framework than doing interesting things. So now ... i ll not add anything new ... disconnect for a moment a stop thing to take the time to think what doing next...

Regards,

Re: Plain Qt on Meego

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1023532)

The plan was that Qt-Componets for Harmattan AND Meego-ux-components should merge but its seems that Nokia neever get the damn sources out and also Intel seems to not be intrested to merge. Atleast when reading meego-dev mailinglist.

And btw qt-components exists for desktop too.

But again Handset UI/Tablet UI and Desktop UI are differenty beasts anyway.

Ofcourse as much of the QML "WidgetsAPI" should be compatible but try port QtWidgets from desktop to handset is often big fail. Just take a look at those desktop apps that have been ported to maemo 5. fonts wrong. cant see all button in some apps. menubar? how userfriendly is that on a handset!?

Devs has to tweek Desktop -> Handset anyway to make them look good on handset screen.

My understanding is QtComponents was open from the beginning. Intel evaluated it and found it too slow and rather than working with Nokia they reimplemented it and kept it quiet until they did the big reveal of the Tablet UX. I missed the Meego UX Components presentation at Meego Conf but this was the word I got from those who attended.

Yes, take a look at those apps that use QWidget, that can run on both desktop, Maemo 4.1, and Maemo 5. In particular look at my apps. I took the time to port 3 from GTK to QWidget in prep for Meego under the false pretense that QWidget would work well (including theming). See DialCentral, Gonvert, and ejpi. They look consistent with the system, don't have half-working widgets, and work well within the limited space.

Testing on the desktop and directly deploying to the phone without any change of code has been a big time saver for me and is one of the things that I have enjoyed about developing for Maemo. Meego seems to be sucking the joy out of things by increasing the friction in doing development.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego

Quote:

Originally Posted by xerxes2 (Post 1023529)

This is exactly what I mean. You should be able to use all of Qt without QML. QML should be optional, use it if you want but it shouldn't be forced. It'll just add bloat and slow your app down. This just sounds like a crazy move from Nokia to not make QML optional.

I am not sure QML is slower than QtWidgets on handset. Why do you think that?

Maybe if you use alot of Javascript but again we can still use C++ for most stuff if we prefer that.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1023532)

Devs has to tweek Desktop -> Handset anyway to make them look good on handset screen.

Yes but for Qt the "tweeks" were VERY small. Qt desktop apps will work with very few changes on Maemo, and I hoped (and still do) on Meego too.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego

I'd also like to add the note that I am fine with using QML with a proper widget library if it delivers on the cross-platform out-of-the-box promise, especially if it works on older systems like Maemo 4.1 and Maemo 5.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego

Quote:

Originally Posted by epage (Post 1023551)

That's already out of the question then: according to Google, QML was introduced in 4.6/4.7 but Maemo 4 only has Qt 4.5.2. Admittedly, all the other components on Maemo 4 are ancient too...

Re: Plain Qt on Meego

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khertan (Post 1023541)

So what, i m just angry... because it s mean again, trash everything and rewrite ... gtk ... qt ... qml ... and yes it s a rewrite. I'm loosing more time changing framework than doing interesting things. So now ... i ll not add anything new ... disconnect for a moment a stop thing to take the time to think what doing next...

Regards,

Well The libQtGui is still there, but no bugfixes will be done to qtWidgets, so you dont have to trash your code, but in the long run i think its a good way go QML it seems? Maybe next application you do ;-)

If I understand it correcly from the discussions at labs.qt.nokia.com they "dished" QtWidget because it have to be heavily rewritten to integrate OpenGL?

But yes I agree there should be a stable "QML Widgets" and stuff need to be optimized in the "javaengine".

Re: Plain Qt on Meego

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstokes (Post 1023559)

That's already out of the question then: according to Google, QML was introduced in 4.6/4.7 but Maemo 4 only has Qt 4.5.2. Admittedly, all the other components on Maemo 4 are ancient too...

Yes, I was aware of this. I was just bringing up the ideal and will compromise from there.

At some point I will have to drop Maemo 4 support or fork Qt/GTK support (like I'm starting to go back to do with my transition from GTK->Qt). I would like to still support n900 users for a while longer though.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khertan (Post 1023541)

Well I think complex listview should not be used on handset anyway.

Or maybe I misundestand "complex" when thinking very big lists with 1000 of items? I mean its bad design if I have to scroll that long lists anyway imho?

The rest I agree.