Plain Qt on Meego
 

Anyone knows if plain Qt will look good on Meego or if QML is the only way to go? On Maemo plain Qt looks nice so just wondering if it would look as good in Meego or if that support will be dropped?

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

What exactly do you mean "look good"? I believe that they'll function correctly.

Most QT applications will likely conform to the MeeGo handset UI guidelines (if developed specifically for it).

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

There is QML and libmeegotouch for plain C++. Please do never use desktop Qt widgets on a handset, it's just horrible (as was Gtk+). No serious developer should even consider such a thing.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

So plain Qt will not work as good on Meego as on Maemo? You're forced to use QML on Meego?

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

I honestly don't know, but whatever you consider "good", is still horrible. :) There is really no reason to. Creating a custom mobile UI does not take that much time, and is absolutely necessary to create a usable application that people will take seriously.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

Ok thanks. I've already written a Qt ui for my app, Panucci, but a little bird told me that plain Qt might look ugly on Meego. Sadly I don't got a N900 so I can't test it myself, will have to wait and see what happens.

Edit. If it looks ugly I guess I have to write it in QML even if i didn't plan to.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

qtgui(widgets) is there..

And if I remember right mad-developer ui is plain qt(or maybe it is gtk) and yes it looks ugly. as people already stated you better go qtquick for UI :) you can ofcourse still use C++ for the rest of the stuff. so if you dont have very much UI you better convert UI to qtquick I dont think it will be that lhard for you;) and also it will be cooler :)

there is already some good ui components so you dont have to lmake buttons etc.. from scratch.

btw. another reason could be it will start faster cause the meegoui has already "loaded" qmldeclarative libs?

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

libmeegotouch and qtcomponents should be about equivalent, depending on whether you prefer C++ or QML.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

LOL !!! No serious developper should even consider QML, it s imature, bugged, and just good enought do display listview, image and rectangle at the Moment.

Try to do a text editor with syntax hiligthing in QML. Not possible ... at least with less than 10s between each modification on the text. It s not a problem with a QTextEdit

And Yes Real QT look ugly on MeeGo as it s not themed, and the existing one theme is bugged. So currently some say that Qt will not be themed, some they it will. But anyway they deprecated QWidget.

If dev want a to use javascript and css view, they can use WebRuntime, but forcing all dev to use Qml is pretty bad idea. Why switching to QML and not use Html5 with JS and a small loader. It ll really give us cross plateform apps contrary to QML.

// A Angry dev about another change i found stupid ... At least let QML Mature enough ... It s not useable today.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

That's a pretty unfounded rant. You don't have to use QML, there is still libmeegotouch. Just don't use desktop components on a mobile phone, that's all I'm saying. Or go ahead and do so, if you don't mind that only a handful of geeks will enjoy your application (which may not be a problem, if you think about something requiring syntax highlighting...).

This has nothing to do with putting a pretty theme on it or not, it won't make a difference.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

It s not unfounded rant ! Just that it s not ready for every use case ! And many things still need to be debugged.

Libmeegotouch ? Are you kinding, it s worse than qml. So many things are missing. And explain me why desktop component aren't for mobile ? It s works well on Maemo. And are you saying that is better to kill the fact that Qt was multiplateforme. Now it s redo everything for each new plateform / device. It s a shame.

Of course it s have to do ! Without qt theme it s not just horrible, it s also horribly useless (auto rotation not working, no kinetic scrolling, scrollbar useless as too small ...)

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

FUD

http://labs.qt.nokia.com


But you can stick with you QtWidgets if you think thats the future for Tablets, touchscreens and handsets...

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

Finally someone that has tested Meego which I have not. So we don't know yet if plain Qt will look as good on Meego as on Maemo. I don't see the point with going through the fuzz of using QML if I don't have to so I rather not.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

This is exactly how I feel. Why the heck should I be forced to use QML if I don't want to? Plain Qt should ALWAYS work and look good! As it work good on Maemo I don't think it can be that much work to get it to work good on Meego too. I say fix this asap Nokia!

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

Why shouldn't it be the future? The question is if it'll look ugly and be unsupported by Nokia? Well, much is uncertain today about Nokia so I guess we'll have to wait and see when Harmattan is properly released.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

Finally one who has tested? O I forgot to say I has ALSO tested!

And personally I said above as half true and half FUD.

* First of QML doesnt mean we must write everything in Javascript that just ********!
* Second QML is progressing fast now to be more optimized for Handset/tablets and with QML 2 we have full OpenGL.

QML is here to stay QWidgets is on it way out and is not optimized for gestures and touchscreen.

But people can stay with QWidget if theyr so damn affraid for new stuff. But dont blame anyone if the bugs is not fixed in QtWidgets or if it doesnt work optimnal for touchscreens.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

Also not all mobile apps require the wizbang of QML. Even on Nokia's site they encourage typical plain utility apps to use QWidget. Sadly the ideal of Qt being cross platform is not present.

QWidget for Desktop or Raw QML

Meego UX Components for Meego or Raw QML

QtComponents for Harmattan or Raw QML.

Notice a trend there? Either rewrite a UI that works perfectly well on each platform or write everything from scratch and not building on the shoulders of giants or even average height people.

At the Qt5 roadmap talk at Meego Conf there was talk of possibly rolling a QML widget set into Qt proper but sounds like that is a couple years off.

Yes, you can package one of those libraries for the other platforms but you have to build it directly into your app as you are not allowed to have deps outside of Meego to be Compliant.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

QtWidget has been marked as *done*

I guess its upto the community to decide if they want to continue improve QtWidgets.

But personally I think in the long run even Desktop apps will use QML or more exact some kind of Widget set based on QML. The KDE team seems altready intrested to use QML in Plasma and also Ubuntu.

But i seems many is taking this as everything will be written in Javascript but that is not true! backends is still C++

http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/09/...ts-about-qt-5/

some of todays drawbacks using QML:

http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/26/...with-qt-quick/

Open GL in nextgen QML

http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/31/...aph-in-master/

QML widget on desktop

http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/03/10/...s-for-desktop/

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

This is exactly what I mean. You should be able to use all of Qt without QML. QML should be optional, use it if you want but it shouldn't be forced. It'll just add bloat and slow your app down. This just sounds like a crazy move from Nokia to not make QML optional.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

The plan was that Qt-Componets for Harmattan AND Meego-ux-components should merge but its seems that Nokia neever get the damn sources out and also Intel seems to not be intrested to merge. Atleast when reading meego-dev mailinglist.

And btw qt-components exists for desktop too.

But again Handset UI/Tablet UI and Desktop UI are differenty beasts anyway.

Ofcourse as much of the QML "WidgetsAPI" should be compatible but try port QtWidgets from desktop to handset is often big fail. Just take a look at those desktop apps that have been ported to maemo 5. fonts wrong. cant see all button in some apps. menubar? how userfriendly is that on a handset!?

Devs has to tweek Desktop -> Handset anyway to make them look good on handset screen.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

One more time, I don't want to use QML at all. I want to use plain Qt and don't want the added bloat of QML. This has nothing to do with if it's on desktop or handset. But it seems that Nokia are forcing you to use QML on handset, and possibly on desktop too, and that's what I don't like.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

Nice we can talk seriously

Never said that ... just that currently it s not possible to do everything in qml than we can do with qwidget, maybe i didn't explain it.

We can clearly hope, as currently it s slower to display complex list view display than with qwidget, it s slower to do something correct for the developper, and it s CURRENTLY do everything yourself, even feedback on simple ui element.
[/QUOTE]


Indeed, but at least with theme it s not so bad on Maemo5

Why abandon it for QML, QML is far to be better, why QWidgets could not be adapted to touchscreens, this is where i didn't understand. But anyway that are their decision, even if i didn't agree.

So what, i m just angry... because it s mean again, trash everything and rewrite ... gtk ... qt ... qml ... and yes it s a rewrite. I'm loosing more time changing framework than doing interesting things. So now ... i ll not add anything new ... disconnect for a moment a stop thing to take the time to think what doing next...

Regards,

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

My understanding is QtComponents was open from the beginning. Intel evaluated it and found it too slow and rather than working with Nokia they reimplemented it and kept it quiet until they did the big reveal of the Tablet UX. I missed the Meego UX Components presentation at Meego Conf but this was the word I got from those who attended.

Yes, take a look at those apps that use QWidget, that can run on both desktop, Maemo 4.1, and Maemo 5. In particular look at my apps. I took the time to port 3 from GTK to QWidget in prep for Meego under the false pretense that QWidget would work well (including theming). See DialCentral, Gonvert, and ejpi. They look consistent with the system, don't have half-working widgets, and work well within the limited space.

Testing on the desktop and directly deploying to the phone without any change of code has been a big time saver for me and is one of the things that I have enjoyed about developing for Maemo. Meego seems to be sucking the joy out of things by increasing the friction in doing development.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

I am not sure QML is slower than QtWidgets on handset. Why do you think that?

Maybe if you use alot of Javascript but again we can still use C++ for most stuff if we prefer that.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

Yes but for Qt the "tweeks" were VERY small. Qt desktop apps will work with very few changes on Maemo, and I hoped (and still do) on Meego too.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

I'd also like to add the note that I am fine with using QML with a proper widget library if it delivers on the cross-platform out-of-the-box promise, especially if it works on older systems like Maemo 4.1 and Maemo 5.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

That's already out of the question then: according to Google, QML was introduced in 4.6/4.7 but Maemo 4 only has Qt 4.5.2. Admittedly, all the other components on Maemo 4 are ancient too...

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

Well The libQtGui is still there, but no bugfixes will be done to qtWidgets, so you dont have to trash your code, but in the long run i think its a good way go QML it seems? Maybe next application you do ;-)

If I understand it correcly from the discussions at labs.qt.nokia.com they "dished" QtWidget because it have to be heavily rewritten to integrate OpenGL?

But yes I agree there should be a stable "QML Widgets" and stuff need to be optimized in the "javaengine".

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

Yes, I was aware of this. I was just bringing up the ideal and will compromise from there.

At some point I will have to drop Maemo 4 support or fork Qt/GTK support (like I'm starting to go back to do with my transition from GTK->Qt). I would like to still support n900 users for a while longer though.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

Well I think complex listview should not be used on handset anyway.

Or maybe I misundestand "complex" when thinking very big lists with 1000 of items? I mean its bad design if I have to scroll that long lists anyway imho?

The rest I agree.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

Yup installed your app now in Maemo and I dont think it would be any big trouble to just recompile it for Meego N900DE (except maybe the menu?). So yes it should work without rewrite in QML if you dont want to ;)

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

Yes the menu is probably the main thing to fix. Spread it out on many windows and put the rest in dialogs, that should fix it. Anyway, rant's over for today. :D Just needed to ask because as plain Qt works good on Maemo why shouldn't it on Meego?

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

There are some really nice qml apps out there (at least for symbian), certainly nicer than anything done with plain qt. Meego style qt components will be the way to develop for harmattan/meego.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

Ok I bite the bullet and got started with qml.
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=545

First impressions are very mixed. Sure you can make your app very customized with qml but it'll require some serious work too. Plain Qt and GTK are dead easy to use, and fast, but qml is a bit more difficult. Lots of tricks and tweaks you'll have to learn to get it to work properly. For now I would say that it's only suited for mobile apps as they're simpler than desktop apps. With different flavours of qt-components it will get less painful though.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

I would put it this way:

Gtk and Qt are oldschool toolkits, which were developed for a time when the mindset was to make it as easy as possible for a programmer to throw a useful application together.

But we are living in different times now. To create a compelling (consumer-oriented) application, you don't just need a programmer. You also need a designer, someone who can develop not compelling functionality, but compelling usability. This person can be the same, but it does require a different skillset, and by extension, a different toolkit to work with.

Any programmer who lacks the required skills should team up with a capable designer. This has been a reality in game development since forever, but now it has also become a reality for application development (because expectations have risen).

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

QML is really starting to grow on me.
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=550

As I said before it's a bit tricky to get started with but it's a breeze after that. For tablets Nokia really have a winner here. If it wasn't for mr flop at the top Symbian/Meego could've given Android a real fight. And still might if the Nokia board puts another guy/gal att the top. And many thanks to the great thp and his tutorials, they saved me a lot of time.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

I've been using QML for the past six months, and I wouldn't touch QWidgets with a 10ft barge pole now. The relative ease/difficulty depends on what you want to achieve. QWidgets are simpler if you want to take an off-the-shelf approach, but customisations are easier using QML, especially if you want to add transitions. You can also create re-usable QML components quite easily. A re-usable push button only requires a few lines of code. Connecting a QML UI to existing C++ code is also quite straightforward, so you can use your C++ data models etc.

Re: Plain Qt on Meego
 

So it seems that Qt will get a proper theme for harmattan after all:
http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?...5&postcount=11

Expected but still much welcome!