Re: Tizen != MeeGo
 

Thanks for the links, it's really appreciated. It's also good to know where to go to catch up on things and see where things stand when one hasn't looked at it in a while. The video is nice, but shows there's still a good way to go toward base functionality on the N900. But it's clearly much farther along than it was before. I assume it can make/take calls & do SMS? DE got that semi-working just before the conference as I recall, but it wasn't the most solid thing in the world. Is there a nice chart somewhere with functionality level boxes for Nemo on the N900? There is one for MeeGo CE on the wiki, but some claimed those were "out of date" the last time we talked, and they've not been updated since then according to the wiki history.

Interesting that Mer is looking to expand to N9. But I have to wonder: if that happens, how long will it be before Mer no longer works on the N900? It's bound to happen eventually, as old hardware support gets dropped from any project eventually. I just foresee the same happening in Nemo which happened to many of the OM projects when FreeRunner came out (and is semi-happening again with GTA04).

My bad... I wasn't tracking it through the plethora of splits and the very recent name changes. (Tizen, Mer, Nemo?). And I pretty much figured that the dropping of MeeGo by virtually everyone meant it was pretty much dead. Even the N9 isn't really running MeeGo per se, but a hybrid MeeGo/Harmattan core. Doesn't much matter now, unless someone (LG, etc) decides to pick up the MeeGo banner and make new hardware for it.

That said, I still don't see many N900 users moving to it. That was the main assertion being made when the thread started, that within a year most of those with N900s still would have moved off of Maemo and on to MeeGo because it was so "future proof". I have a calendar reminder setup for that too, about 8 months away now.

The N9 (if Nemo supports it eventually) may find some converts, since it sounds like Nokia has pretty much gone out of it's way to kill any possible 3rd party support, announcing it dead before it even shipped. Sad, because the hardware looks nice. But when you throw in the step 1 of n cycle again (new-ish OS), Aegis, the limited distribution, clear lack of ongoing support, etc... Just not worth the price, figuratively or literally.

I do see the CSSU, which was labeled a "wasted effort" by a few MeeGo commenters here, taking off pretty well though. Lots of people integrating into that now, to the point that they lack testers for checking things without CSSU installed. It even has a "stable" branch, not that the testing branch is unstable...

Generally, a project changing it's name, splitting, and merging a couple times a year isn't a good sign. Recamping with Mer (which earlier was somewhat poo-poo'ed as the "wrong way to go") may be classified as survival, but not the best in the way of an example. What you really mean is the people that were working on MeeGo (in an unpaid way) have renamed themselves Nemo, and become a hardware shoot-off of Mer in the process. I'm not 100% sure I call that survival.

As for MeeGo itself, that sounds pretty dead to me. Indicators from people in the loop seem to think MeeGo.com may go dark before years end; well before Maemo.org (thanks for catching that btw...) I'm not making bets on that one either way, too many variables.

But my prediction of funded development on MeeGo CE being gone by the end of the year was pretty much dead on. And I'm pretty sure my bet that there will be far more N900 users on CSSU than MeeGo/Nemo/Mer/Tizen by next August is pretty set to come true as well. Not bad for someone that "doesn't know what he's talking about".

Anyway, been nice reminiscing. See you all in a few months!

Re: Tizen != MeeGo
 

Mer's a core (the typical linux/qt stack), not tied to a certain hardware, doesn't contain UIs or hardware adaptations, so it even works on N8x0 still, so that danger isn't terribly high.. It even does MIPS.. :P

N9 adaptation is within the Nemo project

Re: Tizen != MeeGo
 

I think the more prevalent concern is that the N9 has been/will be prematurely and artificially limited as Nokia begins focus on WM7 phones and will be a smaller sub-community compared to the N900. So the jury is still out whether the N9 will be a progression in the development of maemo. Of course, there's always the Qt "cross-platform" thing.

Re: Should MeeGo developers continue to publish info on this forum for maemo users (wrt Nokia device support)?
 

Yes they should!!!

Re: Should MeeGo developers continue to publish info on this forum for maemo users (wrt Nokia device support)?
 

What we really need is to have Nemo working on far more devices than just Nokia's. It won't be a perfect rock solid OS, but that will give it more momentum.

Re: Should MeeGo developers continue to publish info on this forum for maemo users (wrt Nokia device support)?
 

Works on ExoPC as well, just grease up and get the hardware adaptations done.

Re: Should MeeGo developers continue to publish info on this forum for maemo users (wrt Nokia device support)?
 

Whoa! its a "myfirtsrant"!
Despite the fact that i find it incredibly amusing and funny to read, how is the discussion between members like (but certainly not limited to) Woody14619 and Javispedro helping anything here?
Can we please quit acting like a bunch of ffing children here?
These discussions are tearing this forum apart, whilst we should just be working together here. nokia is'nt gonna be much of a help anymore, so all we really have is each other. But I guess thats not important, just that you can spam this forum with "who is right" and "he started it!".

end of rant.

Sorry had to get this of my chest.

Re: Should MeeGo developers continue to publish info on this forum for maemo users (wrt Nokia device support)?
 

Had you actually read the thread, and not just the last page of posts, you may have noticed this was a discussion involving a lot more that just the two of us. As for "tearing this community apart", you clearly missed the entire point of the discussion, since that exactly what was being discussed. One group was trying to pull the "community" one way (toward MeeGo) while the rest were trying to keep us all in one house (under Maemo).

As a recap: This thread started as a group of developers working on MeeGo's N900 port asking if they should continue to post info about that effort here. It was pretty clear to most that they had a side-agenda of urging developers here to stop developing for Maemo (and CSSU by name at least once) and join them in project MeeGo instead, as it was going to be "the future" of N900. An agenda that I saw early on, and which at least one person (the one that started the thread I believe) confirmed.

I took objection to them urging people to cease work on Maemo/CSSU, and along with others noted that after a year or work, MeeGo couldn't even answer or place a call on a single device, including the N900. Which side would you be on in that discussion? Which side was tearing the community apart? Which side was being childish?

Now we're 1.5 years out (closing on 2?) and MeeGo/CE has "morphed" into Mer/Nemo. They're still not even on par with what Maemo5 delivered in PR1.0 two plus years ago. And with MeeGo dropped by everyone outside of this little group, it seems a bit off the rocker to suggest that it's still the "future" of anything, yet alone the N900. Yet that's been the constant assertion here, even now.

Was there a point to coming back and mentioning it? Yes... Because those that forget their history repeat it. Which is exactly why I (remembering the OpenMoko fiasco) stood against leaping to MeeGo. That, and it shows a little bit of whom among the group had some foresight when it came to "predicting" where things are going.

That may sound "childish" to you, but I ask you this: If you were looking at who's going to take a lead role (say as a council member here), would you prefer someone who's predicted what was going to happen accurately, or someone arguing for what turned out to be a dead end? How would you know where anyone stood without discussing it? How would you even know it happened without it being archived here to read?

Re: Should MeeGo developers continue to publish info on this forum for maemo users (wrt Nokia device support)?
 

Well, afaiu Mer/Nemo (similar to MeeGo CE) aims at providing a full Open Source smartphone/cellphone OS. This includes not only the "standard" Linux kernel + user land stuff but also Open Source implementations of vital cellphone functions such as making calls, 3G, or SMS functionality.
While Maemo 5 (Fremantle) as well as Harmattan are to some degree Open Source, the vital cellphone functions such as calls, 3G, SMS etc. are closed source bits. iirc with Maemo5 it's even worse as there are quite a number of closed source parts that are very important to the entire system (bme, e.g., was some keyword iirc).

So in this sense, yes, Mer/Nemo are a pretty big improvement over what we have with Fremantle or Harmattan nowadays Open Source wise. As far as I could follow this whole topic, having Open Source implementations of this cellphone specific stuff is really challenging. And while it may seem quite "trivial" to have such functionality like making calls or sending SMS it may actually be pretty hard work to have these bits implemented as Open Source.

Re: Should MeeGo developers continue to publish info on this forum for maemo users (wrt Nokia device support)?
 

No, it is better to scare of potential devs calling them dead-end guys and hope nokia will save us. Seriously, why some guys here get god-like followship I cannot understand. It is so against the whole idea. This just makes them 'saviours' that lockdown the community into their own bits that cannot be uninstalled, are incompatible, but shhh. Why did we scare of meego/openpandora devs? Do those responsible now feel superior, or do they now sign all their posts: sent from my uber android phone loosers!!! ???