Re: N9: It's finally here
 

N9 is the first device running on new OS so it got nothing to do with any hw cycle. Symbian in a other hand has crap long development cycle just by looking at the leaks, release time difference and what Nokia workers have been telling on the amazing internets.

WP being perfect example if it there will be 2-3 Windows Phones released by the end of this year.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

yeah and the AndroidOS is optimized for the new hardware? NOT

Even if N9 hw is old I am 100 percet sure it is faster(more optimized and tested) than many new devices with Android even dualcores.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

It's not running a new OS, any more than Gingerbread phones and Honeycomb tablets are running a whole new OS.

Linux and Android are optimized (and continuously optimized) for new hardware, yes. Individual Android applications don't need to be because they're running on a VM. Perhaps that's what you're confused by. It sounds like it.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Given how many updates are in the future of the phones from Google, optimization isn't a matter of if, it's a matter of when... keep waiting on PR1.4. I'll have Ice Cream after Honeycomb.

Then it should cost less. Old *** hardware = cheap *** hardware.

Not the case with Nokia.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

In us all hw is cheap *** hw. I want your prices

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

It's not cheap here. In the USA, we're still using the archaic system of subsidization - something that nobody else in the world does.

Skews our purchases, keeps us tied to a carrier system that makes very little sense to those in it, let alone those on the outside of it.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Ok. Computer are very cheap. Thought phones were the same. So the phone is locked to the carrier. That sucks. But still cheap :)

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

It's cheap only every two years or so. Otherwise, full prices.

Computers cheaper here? Yeah... that's very true. I always held off buying machines until I was back in the US back in the day.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Ah ah ah.... cheap ****. You forget.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Please post only news about N9
I think most of us don't need to know that andriod is better or iphone...this site cald meamo zo keep it that way,wanna andr or ios check other site,,,
Sorry about that..and thanx for all the news about meego and N9.. I'll buy it,if it has a normal price
Forgive. My bad english

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

What's a normal price?

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Please remain on topic. I think most of us don't need to know that you're annoyed by related but diverging points of conversation. This site used to be called InternetTabletTalk, now Talk.MAEMO.org but who knows what it'll be called once Maemo is gone--but we don't want to hear you go on about that--we demand that you, instead, remain on-topic and participate in the discussions we are having, closely or loosely bound to the original topic at-hand as they might be. I'll probably pass on buying an N9. It doesn't appear to be for me. I demand another Maemo/MeeGo device. Forgive my excellent English spelling, grammar, punctuation and capitalization. :)

PS - I love you, man. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Has ANYBODY indicated a price for this latest miracle of misfortunes?

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

400 euro will be fine,,,,

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Thanx very funny
P.s don't use the word love ....it's make me feel uncomfortabel


Thanx very funny .

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

What's that in gold bullions? I don't like piddling exchange rates like paper money. ;) If I were dealing in pictures of dead ex-presidents, I might not be willing to part with more than $200 USD for this pocket sized sliver of mutilated mockery of Maemo's marvelous potential, particularly in contrast to similarly specced hardware new and used.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

It made me feel like a hippie. I don't like that. Don't make me have to use it again. :)

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Agree. That would be nice. But I'm sure it will be between 500 eur and 600 eur

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

That will be an expensive device with HW like that ,the software untill know very fine...

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Dan
You now have nearly a page full of posts directed againt your ranting (yes I know you call it disagreement and opinion, the rest call it ranting).

Heres the low down - you keep showelling your diasagreements on Nokia's direction and its devices since the N800 on all of us. Now while I may agree with some of your points, I dont keep spewing mya disagreements on and on and on - its just gets boring - even to myself. (So I dont know how you like hearing yourself spewing the same old points time and again).

Now here is what I feel from knowing a bit about what you are looking for - a Linux desktop experience on your mobile device.

You are on the wrong train buddy. That "Linux desktop experience" train departed with the N810.

With the N900 Nokia clearly stated its phone and mobile experience directions and with the N9 it only takes that further to a logical end - a very optimized and intuitive mobile experience. This train aint going to the Linux desktop land.

So instead of staying onboard on this train and screming "I want to go to Linux desktop land" and "I want Nokia to take me there" , why dont you get down and change your train to the one which will take you BACK ?

Now maybe, just maybe its because you can see many trains passing you by, the iOS Mobile experience train, the Android boxed experince in a JAVA VM train, the WM7 mobile experience train which is also trying to shed its desktop destinations after many futile bends and turns, the WebOS very much mobile centric experience train and so on ... and most of the trains you would want to be are not going your way.

Now this is purely my opinion - Its the mobile revolution - dont expect a good intuitive desktop experience on a mobile device - THAT was so 2001.
The only intuitive experience that seems to work (and being proven by the markets - yes the same markets that you swear by) is the mobile intuitive experience on a mobile device.

So good luck with trying to catch that train to your Desktop Linux experience land.

PS : In fact very soon, Apple would be upending the other theory that we held on to and found to be valid so far - that a desktop experience works very well on a desktop like device - with the new Lion OS thats about to change soon.. Yes its will be a slow change to that upending process.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Then why do folks continue to say "it's a portable computer in my pocket"? That in itself skews the expected experience for the casual reader/user.

Let's be honest, a Linux Desktop Experience in our pocket just isn't consumer friendly. Whereas the N9 could be consumer friendly, the missing bits are too blatant to ignore.

Trust me... I get what you're saying. But to say that it didn't disappoint some former fans is overlooking why people are spewing forth the same stuff ad nauseum. Just like folks are spewing the same ol' "I love my N900" stuff.

Equilibrium. Sometimes it's needed.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Nokia has a longer development cycle for Maemo because they need to do all of the work, where for Android oftentimes the hardware adaptation is in part already done by chipset vendors. Nokia had no intention of under speccing the N9. In this case the software was not ready, which is why the device got delayed. Would it have launched 6 months earlier, the CPU spec would be on par. don't start that BS about Harmattan being Maemo in essence so they should be quicker. Obviously the failed marriage with Intel also delayed the development.

Symbian is a different story, because there the very long development cycles Nokia used to have are compounded with the intent of capitalizing on the fact Symbian is an efficient OS by using slower CPU.s etc.

The real question here is, are we really happy with a spec pissing contest? The entire Android game is a spec pissing contest in part because without a monster cpu, android has a very laggy UI. OEM have no way of differentiating outside hyping Ghz numbers. Should this not really be about quality? Usability? Image quality? Audio quality, reception, battery life, quality of the UI, how well something multitasks, is it able to be used with one hand, etc etc.

Rant: Are Samsung LG and HTC not really the Asus of the smartphone world. Where is the innovation or added value there? The UI skins they make blow. Is it not a sad state of affairs to see Android become the windows of smartphones and destroy diversity?

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Yeah, its portable computer - who says its a "desktop in your pocket" ?

Why do you conflate the two terms - computing with desktop ?

Maybe its just years of using a desktop that is the reason we cant think in a new way and use the old blinders to see new paradigms ?
Again I dont know - but that not how I see it.

And Gerbick, I also agree with some of the dissapointments that you and Dan (and myself) share. -but lets look forward, the old dissapointments arent gong to right itself in this changing ecosystem of a mobile world.

What we have to consider is is the new path that Nokia is trying with Meego/Harmattan a sustainable path - a new path indeed - a intuitive and productive path for us ?
Thats the real question.
Not whay did Nokia abandon the N800 path ?

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Don't you worry your precious little head about it--eventually, it'll stop. Eventually, it'll all stop and go silent at this rate. :)

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/demot...onalposter.jpg

Oh whew! That's a relief! So it's finally running MeeGo, then? :) I find the rest of your arguments baseless. I don't find the UI laggy or slow and I find it to be efficient enough to run exquisitely even on my old Motorola Droid. That's sufficiently efficient enough for an old device, more than efficient enough for new devices. As for the innovations, plenty of it is in developing the HARDWARE--where HARDWARE manufacturers should be concentrating while SOFTWARE developers at Google and in the cmmunity develop SOFTWARE. Seems pretty common-sense.

Here's the thing.. whenever people said, 'this SUCKS as a phone', the response was always, 'IT'S A COMPUTER FIRST!' The idea being to distance the device from being a handset phone device and representing more of a desktop computer experience in a handset form factor.

Now you're possibly arguing that it's not a computer and it's just another ME TOO handset form factor? Ponderous, lad. That leads down roads I prefer not to go down. Meanwhile, the INTERNET TABLET form factor that Nokia nearly had in its grasp with the "desktop computing experience" arguments in a portable device are being adopted by everyone else as their phone OS's slowly evolve into more and more functional "desktop computing experience" devices (i.e. Atrix, Transformer, Icona, etc.). I would argue that Nokia WAS heading the way of tablets, but then got caught up in the iPhone/Android ME TOO wars instead of being the leader of the INTERNET TABLETS that they had rightfully forged ahead on long before the others were going there. It's a shame and a wasted opportunity.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

ummm.... so compare the cpu in the iphone4 to the n9...
One is an A9 the other one is basically the same as the n900 (but at a higher clock) isn't it?

As far as Samsung goes the hardware is the innovation, not everything is about UI skins, it's a combination - which is why although the N9 may have dinosaur hardware, but speed wise it will probably only be 6 months behind

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

The fact still remains Nokia phones have slow processors.
There I said it.....
My LG G2x (which is slim) has a dual core with gpu and removable battery and sd card slot, what is Nokia's excuse? This phone was released 4/20

Long development cycle fine!
OS uses the cpu better fine!
This LG G2x was released 4/20 and now September for N9 with single core, non removable battery, no sd slot, no flash in browser?
How can I not think Elop took a shite on Harmattan project?

If this is just a first device and there will be many more harmattan devices transitioning over to meego (ux transfer) devices then I'm fine with that.
But it does not seem that way.
Maybe this is a fake out move by Elop - make Intel carry the burden of meego and let all the other maufacturers feel safe about making devices for meego (after all Nokia has no control over it now) and then nokia will step in in 2 years when a quadzillion cars, boats, tv's, tablets and phones are using meego and make another spec'd out phone with a nice UX like N9.
If so then I'll bow down to his chubby little ihop chef looking arse and praise him.

I really do not prefer stock Android it seems way too consumery and I would like it to have a little bit of N900 N810 mixed in (that feeling of I can fly free and modify the crap out of it) however I have yet to take advantage of the Cyanogen mod 7 version of android for my LG G2x which everyone is praising here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...08201&page=164
So I really can't speak for those who are running this beast with CM7.

I think I'll get the evolve III Maestro C
It triple boots meego, WP7 and Android.
http://www.evolvethree.com.au/produc...nvertible.html
I'll also get the N9 but just because it's included in the QT fiasco and I know this community will modify the crap out of it and make it do some nice shite.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Well I can't speak for all the other peopl's opinions whan asked "What is the n900" can I ?

No I am not arguing that - you just replied to my post which said "dont conflate comuting with desktop" and here you go making that stawman argument.

Let me say this in B/W. It is a computer - it aint a desktop.

See there you provided me with a nice mental imagery to compare ...

See the blue big rotary phone in your orig. post ? Now what similarities do you see with a mobile phone of today (say an iPhone) ?
Apart from the fact that both rings whan a call comes in and on both you can call somebody - and on both you can talk to another person, and on both you hang up - i.e. on both it walks and talks like a phone. So they are both phones.

But one is a rotary phone using a very different technology and a UI paradigm and communication protocal than the mobile phone of today.

So if someone tells you hey, we have a new phone out for your pockets, do you immediately imagine in your mind using a nice blue big rotary landline phone to carry aound in your pockets (complete with spools of wire and all) ? No you dont, cause you have learnt to diassociate that ponderous imagery of the phone term from the rotary phones of yesterday.

How about trying that with computing and a desktop computing ? Trust me its not that hard.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

^

the iphone 4 has a 800Mhz Cortex A8.

the n9 a 1Ghz A8 which can easily be overclocked to 1.2 Ghz if you want.

The SGX535 does the same amount of triangles/sec (14m) as the SGX530, but has a higher fillrate (500 vs 1000), don't know how relevant the fillrate is in practice, I guess its not a limiting factor for the n9 screen resolution.

The n9 has 1g ram > 512mb

So compared to the iphone4 i would rate the specs of the n9 better. iphone 5 is another story of course.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Wow i wish they will make a phone like the evolve Maestro c boot three os
Hope the N9 can get a Dual boot mango and meego that will be nice

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

But when you say portable computer... and you don't denote otherwise, the connotation is wide open to mean "desktop". More words would alleviate the lack of understanding.

See above. It's not intentional, but you say computer in my pocket, I'm gonna think desktop. And this is coming from a man that owned an OQO 01+.

Nail. Head. Hit. Bingo.

I am looking forward. I just don't see how in the hell they will make this competitive. "New" isn't competitive any longer. "New and fits into your lifestyle, grows with you, plays your media, doesn't take up too much of your time to learn new, obscure commands if you're an idiot that shouldn't own anything past a dumb phone..." sells now. Simply put, we're stuck with having the bottom denominator dictate what we have.

Thank goodness Maemo could actually make both parties - the consumer and the developer happy. Problem is... it ain't doing it yet.

All I see is Elop undercutting each and every MeeGo/Harmattan movement forward with WP7 talk, leaks and rhetoric.

That is not how you build a sustainable path.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

It's almost the same price as the N9 is going to be
BUT you get
1) Better resolution
2) Bigger screen
3) Triple boot OS
4) I imagine removable battery
5) Card slot
6) KKKKKKEEEEEEEEYYYYYYBBBBBOOOAAAARRRDDD
7) Kickstand that works even when device is flipped upside down
8) 2 USB ports
9) HDMI out
10) Windows 7 has been modified to give you 5 home screens
11) Dual core

So apples and oranges this thing seems quite nice.
I mean I like this orange better than that apple.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Sad, but true.

Actually they didn't, they called it a "mobile computer" (which while technically correct was very misleading for people coming from previous Maemo devices).

It's a fad, and Apple are coming typically late to it (Canonical and GNOME are way ahead). We will outgrow it, just like we did other such silly notions (fvwm95 anyone?) in the past.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

I dont get it on a maemo forum I reading alot how fantastic android is.

On another forums and in real world I hear several people complains about:

Laggy android phones
buggy OS
lack of upgardes of OS from several manufactors (ohh I see not only Nokia has thiis problems with upgrades?
android handset where the phoneaudio is so damn bad so they actually cant use it.

people who get sick of android and sell the phones and buys Iphones instead.

but androidgeeks seems to ignore this facts on TMO.

By this I dont say my N900 is perfect but with this "old hardware" I would say it is better than many androids today. Btw there is not even any good hwkbd androids out in my country yet. only some crap from SE.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Nokia had a regular iterative development cycle for Maemo, just like everyone else, until Diablo. Between 2005-2007 they released 3 devices and 4 major versions of the OS.

Nokia has had an absurdly longer development cycle after that (we're on the second half of 2011 and the only new thing out so far is the N900) because they chose to throw most of their existing development away and start almost from scratch, twice (and there would have been another such upheaval going from Harmattan to MeeGo if they hadn't dumped the whole thing).

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

O.M.G.....
I'm running away from this thread for at least 3-days, it's doing my head in.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

That's right! See... introducing the N900 MOBILE COMPUTER!
http://europe.nokia.com/find-product...obile-computer

While at the same time ALSO calling it a mobile phone!
http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products...nes/nokia-n900
http://www.nokiausa.com/find-products/phones/nokia-n900

Sometimes, it seems Nokia is ambivalent about it altogether:
http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N900-Unl.../dp/B002OB49SW

I shall refer you to the great PHONE IS NOT A PHONE war of 2009-2011
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35153

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

I don't get it on any other forum, I've never read a lot how fantastic the n900 is.

On another forums and in real world I hear several people complains about:

Laggy UI when you get a phone call
buggy OS
lack of upgrades of the OS for several months (ooh I see not only some Android phones have this problem with upgrades?)
N900 handset where the microUSB is so damn bad that it actually pulls out.

people who get sick of n900 and sell the phones and buys anything else instead.

but n900 fanatics seems to ignore this facts.

By this I don't say my Motorola Atrix is perfect but with this "new hardware" I would say it is better than many n900's today - especially the broken ones. Btw there is not even any good hwkbd n950's out in any country yet for sale!? only some given to the lucky devs.

game. set. match.

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

Re: N9: It's finally here
 

TMO hasnt been this entertaining to read in months. Keep up the good work guys.