Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

These people can already see "cool looking" devices from HTC & LG running WP7 but they are still decideing to by the Android equivalent.

Why just because it is a Nokia device will these people suddenly decide to start buying a WP7 device, i can't see Nokia is any "cooler" than HTC to most users?

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

MS seems to be up your butt so deeply that you missed out completely on Nokia and their planned ecosystem. What Nokia had was pure win and it was all proprietary. MeeGo + Qt + Symbian + S40 + Ovi Store. It's Nokia's management that failed to deliver, it was all there. Now with WP7, you have to wait another half a year to receive a device from them. If you want WP7 so badly, buy it today, you'll get a taste of Nokia's future experience today and could have even experienced it a year ago. With no more Ovi Maps exclusivity, Nokia's devices will be no different from HTC. HTC are improving camera wise, have amazing build quality and offer more choice to the consumer.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

If I am permitted to summarize what he's trying to say: "All things being equal with regards to services, advantage goes to the device with more or better features. Nokia has opted for the poorer hardware, even while trying to provide the same features that their competition already offers for free."

Considering he's relegated to personal attacks in lieu of an actual debate and intelligent conversation, I would suggest that perhaps he's actually BEING the troll he wishes to stigmatize others with opposing viewpoints to be. I suggest just letting it go and let your statements speak for themselves to the generally more intelligent readers. I know how hard it is to hold back and stop feeding such trolls. :)

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

@danramos: How come you always have the energy to read through these popcorn threads and make replies that actually make sense and take into account whats been said? :D Props to you, man.Keep up the good work -b

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

20 000 apps OMG!!!! I must get WP then so I can install all those apps!!

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

There's more than one type of customer out there. People that love/bought the N900 were in a serious minority. Otherwise, things would not have been like they are presently.

No Elop at Nokia. No announcements from Samsung stating that they've sold 3 million Samsung Galaxy S II's in 55 (or less) days. No Microsoft deal with Nokia. Those are all connected... if the N900 or anything Maemo was remotely as popular as you lot think it was, then these discussions would not have happened.

So yeah... what danramos sees is what most other consumers that aren't blinded by fanaticism and/or ignorant to better options - the middle of this ignorant storm of consumerism is still enough room for people to know, have used, and can precisely critique Maemo for what it is, what it could have been, what it didn't accomplish.

I say that as a Maemo fan - still think Diablo was the first Maemo that made me a serious fan, although I had a 770 before it - and I can state easily that what you don't see... Maemo for all of its innovations was really a failure for Nokia.

Worse... it opened the door for yet another failure in the form of WP7 to waltz in and say "Well... we have a marketplace for music, videos, XBOX 360 and an official Twitter app and you do not..." and have that be a compelling argument against Maemo.

Maemo had years to establish itself as something prominent. Nokia floundered. Nokia faltered. Nokia restarted multiple times. And thusly, Nokia allowed the competition to redefine something they should have set the definition for.

If you cannot see that, then welcome to the part of the crowd where fanaticism disallows that.

It's been like that since 2005. Time for potential to be applied. Or replaced. Sadly, it's been replaced with a shittier version of "potential" (read: WP7). Blame OPK. Elop is just making it worse - the decline started in 2007.

That's part of the whole "potential" part. Have you seen Microsoft's stock value? They've also dropped to something less than their glory days 11 years ago. Blame Ballmer. Bill Gates had that company at record levels.

20k apps... ok. I have an HTC HD7S - and let me tell you. I don't have more than 20 apps on my phone. Not because I'm a lame user, I have 77 on my Android device(s). I have like 80 on my iOS device(s). And yet, I'm missing certain key apps on WP7 at the moment.

It's functional - so is Maemo. It's modern - so is Maemo. It has an ecosystem - ok, Maemo has sorta one... Ovi is half-baked for Maemo.

No arguments there. Yahoo is #2 - and Nokia had a contract with Yahoo for their mail.

Not knowing who Elop is doesn't excuse the fact that once you know who he is... you see the missteps by this current administration. But the problem is... most people are really unwilling to look back at OPK who let his campaigns - marketing, networking and device/ecosystem campaigns - go unsettled and largely unknown. Nobody knew what Nokia was doing. Still don't...

And to excuse it as "part of Nokia's culture" is straight dumb. Google has shown that if you engage your audiences, things like the Google IO conference can get people that don't know who you are, start to follow you, pay attention to what you say and be interested in what you do. Apple... Steve Jobs gets up there, sells the ever-living **** out of anything iOS. People eat it up... but guess what?

Nokia needs that too. Silence sells nothing. Wide open systems sell to people that think that it's important. I'm quite sure there's a percentage of the 1% of the desktop types care about that.

And it's famously less than the people that buy Android, Symbian, iOS and even WP7 - yep, it sold more than the last Maemo device. Sad, huh?

Regardless... being able to criticize yet can't take criticism for what you evangelize is unrealistic and incredibly biased.

Points at thread.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Actually, who still uses Hotmail and Yahoo mail besides spammers and fake accounts for spammers to spam? I have to admit that I haven't seen a single person tell me they use Hotmail or Yahoo mail in YEARS. I think I still see @aol.com addresses more often, and even those are a dwindling breed.

By the by, my gratitude to cjp, gerbick and many others with whom I've had many civil and intelligent discussions over the years and for the thanks and compliments. gerbick elaborated a lot of what I've been saying all along. Well said!

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

I keep a @live.com account - give it out to people I don't like. And I use it for my WP7 phone.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Yeah, so miraculously forcing hotmail users into WP phones, that is The Big Secret Strategy? It worked very well so far, current sales and user penetration of WP7 is the definite proof.

X-box integration is little bit less absurd idea, except that I wouldn't include it in the future potential category, it's more like wishful thinking. Maybe somebody someday will create killer app that takes advantage of unique MS xbox integration, but there isn't event hint of how this should look.

Right now Ovi has double of that, and because of the number of users on MS store, there are no quality developers, so most of this rapid growth is crap just to pump up numbers.

Sorry, I don't know what advantage is for Nokia to force it's customers into using MS Windows and how it enhances The Ecosystem.

Well, this isn't simple even if you have cool phone, fully functional modern OS with ecosystem and everything people need preinstaled, but as MS doesn't have any of that, it is just "what could be if" theorizing. BTW, besides ecosystem, Elop is also outsourcing design and manufacturing of new phone, so Nokia top HW and build quality is most probably thing of the past.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

That sounds about right. Yup! I have a hotmail account that I'd made over a decade ago, before the Microsoft take-over and it remains there as my spam-well, just filling up with garbage after I got tired of dealing with the decaying, rotting state that Microsoft left it in.