Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Popular outside of the US then, Google maps may trump them all in the US but that's because it's more popular not a better maps app? In your Europe at least Nokia Maps is the one to beat on a moible device.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Just to clarify, Nokia makes both hardware and software. Symbian, Maemo and hopefully it continues down the line, Meego, are all Nokia made operating systems. And Symbian kills WP7 today even if it lacks UI candy. Just compare the sales. Why in the hell would you dump billions of users who are familiar with Symbian for an OS that loses sales by the day?

Also, you can google how many of those poor organisms (companies) survived in Microsoft's ecosystem.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

I would not be so sure about that. By now Google maps is propably more popular in Europe (Android + iOS) than Ovi Maps. Bing maps obviously almost no users.

It's going to be interesting to see how the two biggest losers in digital services are somehow supposed to create good services together. Altough, I don't take it seriously that Nokia will have important role on WP7 services. It's just the usual hopeful thinking of a new Microsoft partner. They will get crushed in the partnership and relegated into a serf role by Redmond. Just like all previous MS partners (IBM, Dell, Altair, Apple etc).

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

I'm not the type to believe it because somebody said so... so why is it so great?

I've used it. Found it lacking. Offline a factor? Google Maps 5.7 has that on Android. And on the N900, it still needed "some" access. So that was just a poor implementation.

Again. You're arguing "popular", which is opinion and not really bringing too many facts to the table. It suits your needs, uses. But without a lot of features on Maemo (yet) and with it on Symbian mostly... sure, Europe and Asia wills ay it's the most popular.

But as far as why, it's mainly because it's on more phones in those territories. I personally (my opinion) do not favor Nokia's Mapping software since it seems dated, sometimes sluggish, and on my N900, it wouldn't work in downtown Pittsburgh, Toronto, or Mexico City. Metro gave it hell. I didn't get it a chance whilst in Europe last time - didn't need the frustration.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

To be fair, microsoft charges royalties to android manufacturers (or at least tries to).
And Nokia is not really the best company at the "I have the biggest number of cores/MHz/pixel/screen inches" game.. So they shouldn't (and won't as you may have seen) compete with other android manufacturers, especially because all other companies seem to flock around android.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

I am ignoring Nokia Maps on the N900 as that doesn't represent what is available on a Symbian OS device, on these devices it seems the mapping software to beat. Google maps as in the past needed an internet connection and that's Ok in a built up area, with a good data plan, but as soon as you losse your interent connection you are, literally, lost. 5.7 may resolve that issue but we were discussing Bing not Google maps anyway?

I have not tried it myself but I have not heard anybody saying it is better than Maps hence I assume why M$ want it on their devices anyway.

Edit

Can Bing/google maps do all this?

http://dailymobile.se/2011/07/08/nok...3-08-released/

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Maybe I'm misinformed but I'm under the impression that a lot of GPS devices (Garmin, Magellan to name a few) use Navteq (owned by Nokia) maps.. so I wouldn't consider it irrelevant.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

I don't see any critical services microsoft provides to the wp7 ecosystem.
Instead of bing search nokia could use google search and the xbox stuff is not really that important. Maybe that cloud stuff could be interesting for some. IMO the only service every phone needs is a proper maps application. Nokia does not really need MS for an "ecosystem".

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

I'm not too familiar with an iPhone myself, given the hefty-price for which they are sold where I live, as well common knowledge that they are tightly-locked devices, but here's the thing:

Anybody here into marketing? Have you guys ever heard of an United States-based company called... Harley Davidson?

To put it in simply, their motorcycles are crap, too heavy, make low power for their displacement, leak oil, vibrate too much, can't turn a bend. Some compare those bikes to a huge chromed dildo. So, why do people buy them?

Short answer: Marketing.

HD's marketing is said to be among the best there is, making their selling-point and product not the bike itself, but the idea of a lifestyle of unruly freedom and adventure, which the bike simply act as a physical support for the ideal construction. HD doesn't sell bikes, it sells the travesty of a lifestyle, along with all the crap at their boutiques.

Ok, so, where am I getting at? Apple.

I've read time and again that apple's main revoluctionary accomplishment is creating products that not only are functional, but that also display something about the personality and lifestyle of those who own them (please excuse the writer, he's off to the john to puke... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..ok done). I'm not too interested in watching commercials and other marketing material, but from I can gather, it seems that Apple has been using to great effect that "trendy, cool yuppie" image their products were made to project.

People often claim that apple created a product that revoluctionised the market... I'd say that they simply went with the right marketing, as well as had a decent business plan, in the iTunes store.

Those ain't great ideas, I'd say. They were just... Marketed right. So, honestly, I don't think Apple did anything great, other than hired the right Marketing team. Their main selling point surely ain't the device.

As for nokia, they could have done the same: they could have build on the idea that where other devices lock you down, theirs are open from day one, allowing you to build and modify it to one's heart's content. I could imagine a generic Smartphone-like gadget, with a generic interface resembling that of the iPhone, along with a huge lock going through it, showing a user having trouble moving the interface with the huge lock going through the screen...

And a Nokia phone, lock-free, along with a user rooting it through xterm or something more accessible... That would be a half-decent ad, and that just came from the top of my head.

...instead, we have the burning platform suicide note. Great marketing, way to go.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

I'm talking about handsets, thus my usage of the terms Google Maps, Bing Maps and Nokia/Navteq maps and my clear usage of the N900 and other handsets in my references.

Simply stated, if we want to discuss the entire GPS situation surrounding devices, that's a discussion that I'm personally not prepared for because it deviates from the prior discussion as I saw it and effectively needs to also be set up properly. And I don't think that Bing nor Google even are a factor there.

I personally don't think that was the intent of your statement; I just had to clarify my statements it seems.

With that said; Google Maps has (as of the last update) offline capabilities. Bing does not. Bing can set a contact as a destination; as can Google Maps (I may be corrected on this one - I have a lot of addresses with my Google contacts, I've simply stated how I wanted to go to Mr. X, and it plotted my course from where I was located). Symbian Maps, still have to say for all of their niceness in the software, I found it clunky. But that's my stance on the whole OS.

Both have tons of places they need improvement (Google, Bing). Bing Maps so far would easily be considered the weakest of the bunch. I rarely use it on my WP7 phone. Found it quick on lock, slow on search.