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-   -   Another proof Elop is a trojan horse (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74660)

BigBadGuber! 2011-07-08 23:11

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by patlak (Post 1047497)
The feedback was positive even from the largest of Nokia critics. That's what Nokia needed to get in the US and they obviously succeeded. All seem to see N9's success, except Elop and BigBadBugger.

A little dose of reality from Europe:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13863741

patlak 2011-07-08 23:15

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! (Post 1047502)
A little dose of reality from Europe:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13863741

You didn't get the article. They say it will be a tough sell due to Nokia's management. Nokia obviously lowered their resources and their support in Meego as a primary OS. If Elop and February 11 never happened, the article would shine a different light.

qwazix 2011-07-08 23:17

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! (Post 1047502)
A little dose of reality from Europe:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13863741

to see how uninformed your source is it is claiming microsoft racks up sales. Even symbian in the us is racking up sales but definitely not WP7

BigBadGuber! 2011-07-08 23:19

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by patlak (Post 1047503)
You didn't get the article. They say it will be a tough sell due to Nokia's management. Nokia obviously lowered their resources and their support in Meego as a primary OS. If Elop and February 11 never happened, the article would shine a different light.

I get the article. I actually do plan to buy N9. The point is that Meego is an experiment that will feed the MS-NOKIA alliance with some innovation, just as N9 uses symbian icons as well as some of the swype features of WP7. By itself is not an ecosystem worth supporting as there is no money in it. NOKIA can not afford multiple large ecosystems.

I actually dont think that you are getting it. That is why you are not NOKIA CEO, but a dead wood troll.

patlak 2011-07-08 23:34

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBadGuber! (Post 1047507)
I get the article. I actually do plan to buy N9. The point is that Meego is an experiment that will feed the MS-NOKIA alliance with some innovation, just as N9 uses symbian icons as well as some of the swype features of WP7. By itself is not an ecosystem worth supporting as there is no money in it. NOKIA can not afford multiple large ecosystems.

I actually dont think that you are getting it. That is why you are not NOKIA CEO, but a dead wood troll.

I am not CEO since that position is idiot proof and surely does need a muppet.

Repeating this for the zillionth time. All the things Nokia invested in, make up one ecosystem, not 2, 3 or even more. The ecosystem is:

MeeGo + Symbian + S40 + Qt + Ovi services = 1 (ONE) ecosystem

N9 is not using Symbian icons, it's using Nokia proprietary icons. Their ecosystem involves similar UX across the board. So those icons will be available for MeeGo, Symbian and S40. With WP7, Nokia broke this ecosystem. They had it all on paper, just needed good management to get it through the door. Elop and MS used a perfect opportunity to f*ck it all up, not just for Nokia, but for us, the consumers. WP7 sales were getting lower and lower. Their plan was and still is, "if we are going down, we'll drag Nokia with us for the sole reason we know their comeback is gonna be bada**."

qwazix 2011-07-08 23:35

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
I don't think we should continue to bump this thread into active topics. I can imagine Elop going to one of NOKIA webmasters and asking him,
--how many websites do we have, why are the costs so high?
--MM let's see, nokia.com, brandbook, swipe, nokia europe, local sites, developer.nokia.com, maemo.org
-- maemo? you meen meego
-- no, maemo
-- what is maemo
-- you know, N900
-- let me see...
(giant screenshot of the title of this thread pops up on the 24in monitor)
-- how much do we pay for this?
-- XXX€
-- take it offline please, effective tomorrow
(silence...)
-- oh and put a giant windows logo instead of a 404

patlak 2011-07-08 23:40

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1047515)
I don't think we should continue to bump this thread into active topics. I can imagine Elop going to one of NOKIA webmasters and asking him,
--how many websites do we have, why are the costs so high?
--MM let's see, nokia.com, brandbook, swipe, nokia europe, local sites, developer.nokia.com, maemo.org
-- maemo? you meen meego
-- no, maemo
-- what is maemo
-- you know, N900
-- let me see...
(giant screenshot of the title of this thread pops up on the 24in monitor)
-- how much do we pay for this?
-- XXX€
-- take it offline please, effective tomorrow
(silence...)
-- oh and put a giant windows logo instead of a 404

Great job at stamping this idea in Elop's beach ball head :p

ysss 2011-07-08 23:43

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1047311)
naaaa,
if you had to pay hundreds of bucks to get it, it IS high-end, even on a 166Mhz pentium :rolleyes:

That's high priced, not necessarily a high end item.

qwazix 2011-07-09 00:08

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
WP has exactly the features of the first iphone plus (poorly executed) copy paste, it is fast and overly simple. One iphone is enough, because it offers an image with its restriction and simplicity which wp cannot match. Android conquered the world with it's home screen. It's personalizable enough to make people love their devices. Heavy users and geeks may be less in numbers but they are highly influential in the decisions of others. I have pretty much decided for at least 11 phone purchases in the last year. So idiot proof is not the only way to go, it may be turn around and be insulting to your user (UAC anyone?).
High end doesn't mean only thousands of MHz and dosens of cores, it means capability. And now all capability of WP is limited to playing silverlight snippets, one at a time.

M_99 2011-07-09 00:19

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericsson (Post 1046778)
The tale of the ecosystems:

In the pre ecosystem era Nokia had all smartphones worth having. They also had all dumbphones worth having. If fact Nokia ruled the entire globe with high quality devices that were used to connect people, and life was good. Well, almost the entire globe. A backwater place called North America where evil operators ruled by enslaving both phone companies and end users, proved to be too evil for the freedom loving Nokia to thrive. The poor people there had to live with ancient devices with antennas called Motorola and something called Blackberry, a kind of typewriter technology.

Then a fruit, an apple, decided to make something new and fresh for the poor enslaved people. But it also took a bold rebellish step against the major operators, making a cool device with a SIM card using GSM technology that would enable the device to run on operators world wide. The new device was loved from day one, even though it was not very capable, and half of the technologies was stolen from Nokia. Although not intended as a main feature, the device had the ability to easily purchase, download and install small programs called apps through iTunes, a closed system used on iPods for music. This ability, music and apps, became extremely popular and very soon became the number one selling point. When the device came in its second generation, the technology was up to a level so it could be sold world wide. Because it was based on GSM, the apple only needed to ramp up the production without changing anything. The device became an instant hit everywhere it was sold, particularly due to apps and music, but also because it was new and different and fun and easy to use.

A sneaky company called Google had secretly studied all this by gathering information with its internet based sneaky-ware technology...... deleted the rest of Google-History - see page 16 for details

Poor Nokia had no idea what to do, it had no idea what was going on, it was completely lost. The world had suddenly disrupted somehow, it had changed entirely. It did all kinds of strange things, it bought large software companies, open sourced them, closed sourced them again, and ended up giving them away for free including everyone working there. It made devices no one wanted, it made iTune-like systems that no one liked.....deleted the WP-History - see page 16 for details

And that's it. Without an ecosystem you are nothing but an OEM, a servant for the sneaky-company, doomed to do nothing but slash prices for the rest of time. The Nokia board want Nokia to be much more than a servant, and that's why the ecosystem is what it's all about.

I think (hope) it should have been sarcastic, but the tragedy is that most of people (especially at the mysterious "backwater place") are believing this is the truth.
No one today seems to remember the real story.

In June 2007, when the first iPod with phone features was released at the "backwater place", rest of the globe including myself was using one of the best selling smartphones of all times, the Nokia N95.
It was the first Nokia device with GPS, bringing online (including A-GPS) AND offline navigation in more than 100 countries worldwide. It had quadband for worldwide use. It had USB (including Drag&Drop), Infrared and Bluetooth to easily exchange files with your PC, and also to use it as a modem for your Laptop, long time before "Tethering" was something to worry about in contracts. It had a microSD-Slot with SDHC working. It had Wlan with UPnP-Support. It had an Audio-Video-Chinch-Connector to easily use any sort of headphone you prefer and also to connect to your TV for Audio/Video output. It had a 5MP Camera wich made photos way better than these of the N900. It had a second Camera on the front with native support for Videocalling over GSM.

At this time in year 2007, Nokia had created different services to enhance the User-Experience, today known as "Ecosystems":
Things like the Nokia Music Store (formerly known as Loudeye - a White-Label-Service for MTV, MSN, MyCokeMusic, ... today known as Ovi-Music) brought more than 1,6 million Songs (more than 11 million songs in 2010 wich means it's larger than iTunes) to Nokia devices all over the world. At this time the N95 was capable of downloading little Programs to your device (today known as "Apps") to improve the capabilities of the phone, e.g. Skype (with Fring) for VOIP-Calls, Games etc. At this time the Nokia-PC-Suite was the Center of all your device-related tools - downloading and syncing maps, syncing and editing contacts, syncing files, downloading and installing programs, backup and restore.... With one of the following software-updates you even did't need the PC anymore but could download Apps and Music directly to your device....

Nokia has it all. Ovi-Music with more than 11 million songs, Ovi-Maps with free offline navigation worldwide, Ovi-Mail to centralise all of your different Mailaccounts, Ovi-Suite to Sync everything with your PC, Ovi-Store with more than 40k Apps today - everything I'd call an "Ecosystem".

But Nokia failed. They not only failed, it was more like an epic fail.
Why ?
In my opinion (and I don't dare this is the only truth) because thy became fat, arrogant and made stupid decisions.

Fat, beause of the success.
To much ideas, no concept. New services, renamed services, no stategy wich service available for wich phone in wich country. Services not improved, like Ovi-Suite wich lacked for support for too many phones for too much time (look at the N900) and became more and more resource-hungry. Or like Ovi-Store, wich is a torture to use since day one.

Arrogant because of the success.
It's not a good idea to sell 20-30 different devices at one time, each one like the other, except of design and a few features - people get confused. It's not a good idea to reload the same (in the meantime old) hardware of the formerly megaseller (N95) with crappy build-quality and to try to make people believe this would be the next revolution (N96, N97, N97 mini). It's not a good idea to ignore the feedback of your customers ("Touchscreen ? - There's no need for this", "Multitask ? - You don't need this with Symbian", "Hardware-Specs ? - Hardware is irrelevant, because Symbian is so smooth"). It's not a good idea to fuc* your customers if they need support. Nokia has been premium in terms of build-quality for years. But with quality going down was also support going down ("This phone has become wet", "You were smashing your device on the floor", "Did you use this device ?"....). No service, no new Nokia for me.
It's not a good idea to provide new flagship devices (like "the mobile computer" the N900 in my coutry) and fuc* your customers with the lack of support ("Software-Update ? One, maybe two", "Navigation ? Just buy one of our many Dumbphones", "Full Hardware-Support for Frontcam, FM-Transmitter, IR... ? Go to Hell or just ask at TMO")

Stupid decisions because they (finaly) recognized the sinking ship.
Why the hell does Nokia believe that the "backwater place" would be the universal solution ? Nokia was the leader in Europe, Africa, Asia, but has been ignored in America. It's because Network-Providers in America think different. In no way european customers would accept the behavior of american providers. But without the providers you're lost. No one is willing to pay 500-700 $/€ for a handset every 24 months. So what ? Why not forget the whole story an concentrate on the markets you've conquered with success ? Nokia doesn't need this "backwater place" and in no way Nokia will ever be successfull in this market.
But Nokia is acting like a bit** who wants to impress you - "Let's try a new software from this "backwater place", let's try a new leader from this "backwater place", let's forget everything we have learned (or not learned) in the markets we were the leader, this backwater-place-thing will bring the success."
In trying to be successfull in America, Nokia is loosing the rest of the world. And Elop is one big part of this fail, because he represents what most Europeans (and most other people in the rest of the world) don't like within the american mentality: he's a big-mouth, he doesn't know when it's time to just shut the fuc* up.
What an idiot he must be, to tell the whole world, that his moneycow (Symbian) is dead.
What an idiot he must be, to tell the whole world, that there will be only one premium OS, WP7 within Nokia. Not only that Nokia never needed another "third-party" OS like iOS, WM or Android to be successful, customers still don't know when there will finally be a new Nokia flagship-device (2012 ?) after the obligatory Nokia-delays of several months.
What an idiot he must be, to tell the whole world, that the world's (in near future ex-) biggest phone-manufacturer with the most spread OS in the world and thousands of employees is absolutely incompetent to bring the long time experiment (step 1, 2, 3, 4 out of five) to a stunning final, resulting in an ultimate user-experience - no, he declares Maemo/Meego as also dead for Nokia.

I'm sorry to say, but Nokia in my opinion deserves what it gets at the moment, because they didn't listen to their customers (where the money comes from), didn't learn from their mistakes, were unable to copy good concepts from others, and finally hired a big-mouth which (maybe) will have a long-time-plan, but is unable to keep the moneycow in good mood before switching to an all new platform which will have to proof itself first.

CU - M_99


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