Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

I think the anti-android thinking at camp Nokia ment that Alien Dalvik was a no go. But that's just going to be speculation since Alien Dalvik didn't arrive in time to have any influence.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Damn right he does!

You've made my point for me - thanks ;)

Just because I'm arguing Elop's line of tactics here it doesn't mean the outcome will suit me personally - far from it, in fact:

Give me a choice of (what I've heard of) WP Mango and Meego/Harmattan and I'd go for the latter for so many reasons I can't put them down here, but my one purchase will not keep Nokia afloat.

You've hit the core of the matter: individuals like me, and minorities like ours do not matter now; this is about Nokia's survival.

And that is why WP is the best path for Nokia to follow.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Are you surprised at MS's drop?

I'd imagine most of the sales of late relate to 6.5; Windows Phone 7 has been of very limited appeal because it is effectively crippled in so many areas, lacks the apps and services required to gain traction and has been offered on some pretty uninspiring hardware.

Much will change with Mango (although not enough for me, I fear) and with Nokia contributing Maps to all WP devices and offering quality hardware alternatives, I'd expect that curve to turn around by this time next year.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Why are you expecting Mango to be such as improvement when M$ have got it wrong so many times before with there mobile os? Is Maps so good that it would make an user buy a WP7 handset over google maps on an Android phone?

If users like me have always had a Nokia handset butt wouldn't consider a WP7 Nokia phone why are Android etc users can to buy one?

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Speculations of course, but as far as I can see, Elop has only said no more MeeGo, be it "native" MeeGo or some politically correct branded Maemo (MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan). He has also stated that the UI on the N9, Swipe, will be seen on future devices. Then, the "next billion" is S40 with web-apps.

So the question is, what kind of devices will we see Swipe on in the future? It is highly unlikely that it will be S40 or WP. This leaves only Symbian and Maemo. IMO we will see it on both. The focus right now is on WP, but WP is high end, Nokia need mid and low end smartphones as well.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

you are welcome ;)

got a 2nd as good as new N900 a couple weeks ago & they will have to do 'til... well, either NOKIA's management comes to its senses or some S-E Asiatic company jumps into the void & sells hundreds of thousands or even millions of MeeGo devices w/ hw kbd, even without SWIP :D
that would be a N950, right :confused:

completely agree, except for the last sentence
i'm not saying wp will remain a total failure (as it is factually now).
m$ has... the $$$$$$$ to back it until companies start warming to the idea to be able to manage the employees' mobile phones from the same servers they manage their laptops and can restrict their rights on it the same way, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera :mad:
might not happen over night

no big deal for m$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, they are getting 'nough $$$$$ every time someone buys a PC or laptop.

right now, NOKIA has pretty much burnt all bridges.
unless the 1st W device is a bigger hit then the N8 and every W device after that an even bigger success, NOKIA will end up pants around their ankles with nothing left to sell.
:(

EDIT: except their factories, goodwill & other intellectual properties :mad:

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

It would have to be a short bus, the way things look.

Let's also not forget that salespeople have been burned enough by Windows phones in the past to be disinterested in trying to sell them. I'm pretty sure they're a fail from the GO because of their ruined brand and negative customer experiences in the past. I sincerely doubt that Windows Phone 7 will make any difference to Nokia's drops.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Why? WP isn't really in any better shape. The partnership benefits Microsoft more than it does Nokia, in that much of the innovation that comes with developing with WP will go to Microsoft.

In the meantime, Elop publically destroyed everything Nokia has been working on. Symbian? Basically told everyone it is a dead end. Qt? With Symbian effectively dead, who will bother? Also, WP does nothing to help the cause of Qt. Then there is all this development with Maemo/Meego which seems to be whithering on the vine.

I don't doubt that Nokia had to make a deal of some sort, but that isn't where the negative feelings are coming from. It is the throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Being a provider of Windows Phones isn't much of a future for the company that invented the smartphone. While Nokia may survive, it won't BE Nokia, if you know what I mean.

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

Yes - all the opinions of the experts concur; WP Metro UI is an attractive and engaging UI and Mango will deliver enough functionality for the masses. MS do appear to have got it right. Past performance is no indicator of future potential.

(incidentally, I dislike MS almost as much as Apple. I use Ubuntu at home and MS under sufferance at work)

Nokia Maps is a huge asset to Windows Phone. Offline maps with 3D effect, voice guidance, good routing (generally) and full auto-rerouting. Nokia Maps integrates with other services on the device and is free.

I was initially surprised at Nokia's decision to contribute Maps to the OS, thus allowing other Mfrs to take advantage of a unique Nokia feature, but how much is 'Maps by Nokia' on every WP device by every manufacturer worth in marketing $'s?

Existing Nokia users like you (and I'm making presumptions here, so forgive me if I am too presumptuous) are, for want of better words, geeks and tinkerers.

the very fact that you are here on this site taking part in discussion like this means that you (and me) are not the target for Nokia's WP devices.

We like our Nokias because we can get in there and get our hands a bit dirty. We relish the challenge to overcome obstacles and find solutions for ourselves.

I suspect that like many of us you probably have a history of smartphones and know your way around a range of devices. You will know the shortfalls and advantages of the different OS's and their respective ecosystems.

We are a minority and we are not typical of the vast majority of smartphone users who just want to use their device with the miniumum of fuss and involvement. That is why iOS has become so popular and even though it lags behind Android technically (in that you can do more with Android if you know how), iOS is growing fast.

Of course, Android has grown faster of late, but much as I admire Android it is starting to look and feel dated and clunky against iOS (an OS I'd prefer not to use, incidentally).

Consider as well that next year smartphone sales will probably exceed dumbphones - Nokias home ground. All those existing Nokia dumbphone users looking for their first smartphone; something simple to use, but effective, capable and affordable.

Apple have failed to exploit the mid and low-end, Android is technical, fragmented and a bit messy and confusing.

That is why WP could be a good bet for Nokia. It may not be as technically capable as Symbian, but it won't have to be. It will ofer enough functionality for the masses and will be as easy and engaging to use as iOS at a fraction of the price - Nokia will see to that.

But where does that leave us geeks?

Well, we'll still have Symbian for a few years. Belle looks promising - especially combined with fast processors or dual-core. many of us will jump over to Android, but I fear that will become increasingly locked-down over time.

And we have Meego and Meego/Harmattan - for now. If N9 sells well enough and doesn't backfire on Nokia (by way of disgruntled customers complaining of poor support and lack of apps - all the stuff we've seen on these pages since the N900 was launched) then maybe - just maybe Nokia will use something similar to the N9's OS and UI to promote further disruptive technologies.

Here's to hoping...

Re: Another proof Elop is a trojan horse
 

I think we'll see Qt used on S40 - the 'next billion' so often referred to. From what I understand Qt cannot be used on WP.

I think we'll see S40 fill in a lot of the space vacated by Symbian at the low end - like all those S60 5th Edtn and 3rd Edtn devices; imagine if you will a small, slim device in the mould of the current X3-02 but with the functionality and ease-of-use of the iPhone., because you can bet that Apple will go for the low-end with an 'iPhone Mini' sooner or later Qt would be very effective here.

In the meantime Symbian is far from dead: My N8 is just as usable and relevant as my N900 or any other device:

There are reportedly over 10 new Symbian devices between now and 2014 and we know support is to be extended to at least 2016 - that was part of Nokia's deal with Accenture who will now be handling Symbian development going forward. Nokia have just released a load of updates for S60 5th Edtn devices featuring the forthcoming 'Anna' browser, and Anna and belle are scheduled for release later this year.

We must understand that the problem with getting Windows Phone for Nokia going was going to be one of slowing the all-but implacable momentum of the giant that is Symbian. As the Elder OS, Symbian might crush the younger and currently less-capable Windows Phone. Symbian is huge, a monster with a life and trajectory of its own - that is why Elop has done all he can to be seen to 'kill' Symbian.

As if he could!

Nokia will be far more than a manufacturer of Windows Phone devices - that was the deal on offer from Google if they adopted Android. Nokia will work with Microsoft and other participant manufacturers to build and shape Windows Phone.

Nokia Maps is just the start. Expect to see Nokia licence (sell) a lot of technologies for use on WP devices - agiain a level of participation not even on the negotiating table with Google's Android.

Your last comment is very true: Nokia will not be the same ever again. It has been toppled by fast-growing competition since 2007 and came close to being unrecoverable.

But this is a dynamic and unpredictable industry; who could've predicted just four years ago the rise of the Android, the growth of Samsung, HTC, Huwawei and ZTE, the fall of Sony-Ericson, Motorola and, of course, Nokia.