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-   -   [Council] Council_Update-July_2011 (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74790)

danramos 2011-07-23 02:26
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1056534)
So as it stands, what you're asking for just won't happen. So instead of asking the impossible, why don't you ask what is possible instead. And for once, ask then silence yourself for a qualified answer that's seemingly going to have to be put together for you in one simple sentence since you have yet to piece it together for yourself from this entire thread, and learn from it.
Although I agree with abill, the facts stand as gerbick states it: It won't happen--Nokia is a crappy company with the immoral but legal right to treat its employees and customers like "human capital". What I think gerbick is basically saying is: stop spinning your wheels in place doing something you can't fix, try to fix something you can. I think most of us can agree with you both on this--no need to argue as if you're not in agreement somewhere in there.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.poster...zrfLPiLPSBQ%3D

abill_uk 2011-07-23 02:31
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1056538)
Although I agree with abill, the facts stand as gerbick states it: It won't happen--Nokia is a crappy company with the immoral but legal right to treat its employees and customers like "human capital". What I think gerbick is basically saying is: stop spinning your wheels in place doing something you can't fix, try to fix something you can. I think most of us can agree with you both on this--no need to argue as if you're not in agreement somewhere in there.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.poster...zrfLPiLPSBQ%3D
Not arguing with gerby as i do like his posts and respect the man for his intelligent remarks throughout this forum in general.

I actually AGREE with what he is saying but still find it a totall waste of time what has happened from day one as it COULD have been different.

EDIT My point IS that IF the code IS released then what gerbick said can very well happen and onward we go with Maemo development making sure Maemo does NOT die as the "crappy" company wants.

ysss 2011-07-23 03:00
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
@danramos: remember my post about going to mailing list/irc/etc to talk to council members? is the reason any clearer now? ;)

@abill: Supposedly Einstein once said that Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Personally, I was hoping that this thread would be used as a brainstorming/discussion thread about the future of the community... but I'm also pretty much checking out myself from all the nonsense going on here.

Moderation please?

rotoflex 2011-07-23 04:19
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1056514)
So, happy talking in upcoming 493 pages of another epic thread. Hope to *not* see some of You in new one, ~A.D 2012 ;)
Visiting this topic today, I noticed that after your post is something I had never seen before: a full page of posts from people on my ignore list, & the start of another page in the same way.

The topic is of interest, but it has been buried by trolls & self-aggrandizers. This is a plain failure of moderation, a waste of the forum resource, & an obvious fatal weakness of the communtiy structure. The moderators may find the trolls amusing, but they have by not restraining them been complicit in gutting the community structure.

danramos 2011-07-23 04:53
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysss (Post 1056549)
@danramos: remember my post about going to mailing list/irc/etc to talk to council members? is the reason any clearer now? ;)
I'm really not sure. How relevant will these council members be if they're not participating here as well? Are these forums especially excluded from the community? Moreover, especially if they're not, perhaps is that part of the problem? Communications, that is? This was ALSO the problem with Nokia, as I recall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysss (Post 1056549)
Personally, I was hoping that this thread would be used as a brainstorming/discussion thread about the future of the community... but I'm also pretty much checking out myself from all the nonsense going on here.

Moderation please?
I'm not sure that moderation is the fix here--if anything, the problem appears to be a monopolization of the conversation by far too few people. I wish more people would participate and share some ideas on what to do. I, for one, proposed a move toward the more generalized, and far less brand or trademark specific, InternetTabletTalk where we can all talk about putting various OS's (Maemo, MeeGo, Android, NITdroid, whatever) onto various devices made by various brands. It would at least be different in its legacy (as the first real gathering place on the Internet for tablet owners), heritage (Maemo/MeeGo/burned Nokia customers/etc), slant (more open-source leaning) and community (more tight-knit, shared experiences, we would have a council--something you don't really see with most forums.. shares more in common with local computer groups than forums, but exists primarily on the Internet).

Anyway... I put that out there and that's about the best formula I can think up for a far more resilient and relevant community than the one we currently have making noises at Nokia like hungry chicks begging for the few useless volumes of vomitous disgorgment Nokia feels the mood to permit us to have to nourish ourselves, to support ourselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotoflex (Post 1056564)
Visiting this topic today, I noticed that after your post is something I had never seen before: a full page of posts from people on my ignore list, & the start of another page in the same way.
to quali
The topic is of interest, but it has been buried by trolls & self-aggrandizers. This is a plain failure of moderation, a waste of the forum resource, & an obvious fatal weakness of the communtiy structure. The moderators may find the trolls amusing, but they have by not restraining them been complicit in gutting the community structure.
With all due respect, I appear to be picking up some static of irony. Thus far, you didn't contribute anything to this conversation but you are proposing that your ignore list should be the sole arbiter of valuable conversation and opinion. Correct me if I'm mistaken and please feel free to elaborate on your ideas for this community without the fear of censorship and exclusion you appear to want to project upon the others who have been participating.

PS: For each time a moderator has been criticized for not being strict enough, I must counter with my gratitude for a free and open forum for conversation.

abill_uk 2011-07-23 06:46
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
All anyone wants is some answers to what will eventually happen with Maemo.org and as danramos rightly said far few people have came on this thread to comment, only to critise and ask for moderation and that clearly is not the answer here as no one is being abusive or flaming or trolling, merely asking and throwing idea's about.

abill_uk 2011-07-23 06:51
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1056570)

Anyway... I put that out there and that's about the best formula I can think up for a far more resilient and relevant community than the one we currently have making noises at Nokia like hungry chicks begging for the few useless volumes of vomitous disgorgment Nokia feels the mood to permit us to have to nourish ourselves, to support ourselves.
This is what i am trying to find out because from where i see it right now to hack the os of the N900 and help ourselves would mean problems for Maemo.org BUT what will be the case when and if Nokia no longer supports Maemo.org and it is out on its own?.

daperl 2011-07-23 07:15
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Opinion:

Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1056057)
i will not correct my typo because i am human
Fact:

Quote:
Should have been Posted by abill_uk
i will not correct my typos because there aren't enough bytes in the universe

ysss 2011-07-23 07:18
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
moderation |ˌmädəˈrā sh ən|
noun

1 the avoidance of excess or extremes, esp. in one's behavior or political opinions : he urged the police to show moderation. See note at abstinence .

• the action of making something less extreme, intense, or violent : the union's approach was based on increased dialogue and the moderation of demands.

PHRASES
in moderation within reasonable limits; not to excess : nuts can be eaten in moderation.

misterc 2011-07-23 07:48
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
geeeee, my very own & personal troller is back :D
this is going to get really funny
i guess now is the time to shout...

FIRE IN THE HALL!!!!!!

misterc 2011-07-23 08:22
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
but, seriously...

NITDroid...
Trinity...
Neo?
naaaa, TDE as in KDE 3.5

two examples of rather larger and fairly complex software's that are maintained and developed by a small team of... dedicated ppl :eek:

KDE 3.5 dead?
alive and kicking, thanks!
about a year ago the folks working on KDE 4 kept saying KDE 3.5 was a dead end... because it (still) was using qt3; meanwhile Timothy Pearson & two other ppl have ported the KDE 3.5 code to qt4; the only difference that seems to be left between KDE 4 and KDE 3 now is that later is working :D

is the only reason it is (not or barely or ...........) possible to make phone calls in NITDroid the lack of the complete source code?

so, yes, i think abill's point that with the (complete) source code Maemo could thrive is fairly valid. or is it?
i only know a little about, e.g. nouveau, the open source version of the NVidia drivers; i guess NV may be a little more lenient then NOKIA but still; even though nouveau is not as powerful as the nv drivers (yet), it is possible...

like i pointed out, it is questionable whether NOKIA wants to have a Maemo 5.5 (or whatever) competing with its own :mad:
even more so if, maybe, the elected few might actually return to Maemo & adapt it for their N950s and thus for any N9.
that definitely wouldn't do now, would it?

EDIT: shouldn't the holders of a N950 be banned from Maemo.org?
they betrayed Maemo.org as much if not more then NOKIA didn't they?
NOKIA @ least had business reason to turn its back on Maemo (& keep some of the code)

yet again evidence that the administration of Maemo.org is partial and maybe not a valid organ to lead a Maemo / OS200x renouveau?

Quote:
Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare.
-- Japanese proverb
EDIT': if that is not FIRE IN THE HALL!!!! i don't know what is ¦-)

abill_uk 2011-07-23 08:46
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
I think time for someone else to have input other than me, i think i have said enough for now.

My points have been made and this is a community thing and not sure if what i have said on here is even the right place or not but it would run a lot better without the trolling from ysss and daperl.

misterc 2011-07-23 09:20
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1056660)
I think time for someone else to have input other than me, i think i have said enough for now.

My points have been made and this is a community thing and not sure if what i have said on here is even the right place or not but it would run a lot better without the trolling from ysss and daperl.
maybe i'm on too many ppl's ignore list ~¦:c)

in fact, i think this site is lost for any OSS purpose.
it is still a NOKIA backyard with too many so called dedicated ppl being too closely linked to NOKIA or NOKIA's interest

that dedication is definitely not truly interested in an independent Maemo / OS200x
maybe anyone connected with MeeGo should be banned from Maemo.org?
:(

but of course, banning (even temporarily) is just one of those autocratic reaction, denying open & free speech.

the right thing to do is to pick up whatever code we have & leave this place.
is os2001.org still available?
os2010.org ?
os2061.org?
os3001.org?
anything.org ?!?
well, a fitting one would be the thedeeprange.org... fallen from space into the oceans...

abill_uk 2011-07-23 09:57
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Do you mean oss2010.org etc?.

misterc 2011-07-23 10:04
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1056693)
Do you mean oss2010.org etc?.
got carried away by the allusion, but, yes, i guess oss2010.org would be a good one too
maybe oss2011.org then, to make a cut from the current Maemo version (PR 1.3 / 20.2010.36-2)?

misterc 2011-07-23 10:12
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1056701)
oss2010.org has from 2005 to 2012.
i do not copy that :confused:

abill_uk 2011-07-23 10:14
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1056704)
i do not copy that :confused:
Are we cross wires here? take a look at http://oss2010.org/drupal5/ and you will see what i mean lol.

OH i just re-read your post and me is stupid today lmao.

abill_uk 2011-07-23 10:28
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
I think maybe theforgottenmaemo.org would be more apt hahaha.

misterc 2011-07-23 10:30
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1056707)
Are we cross wires here? take a look at http://oss2010.org/drupal5/ and you will see what i mean lol.
copy that :o
guess we are left with oss2061.org or oss3001.org, then?
or, to be exceedingly epic, oss2001.org, my personal favourite :D

or we could try to play around with the letters some, like GNU's recursive acronym?
oos2010/1 ?
oss also has a little bit of a "spy" connotation to it, doesn't it?

osos201x would be a nice play on osso ¦-)

EDIT: or we could go completely off the chart? rdz-vswithrama.org ¦-))))

misterc 2011-07-23 10:32
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1056719)
I think maybe theforgottenmaemo.org would be more apt hahaha.
what aptitude are you alluding to here :confused:

EDIT: more seriously, i'd rather go w/ rpm too :o :hidding:

abill_uk 2011-07-23 10:33
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1056723)
what aptitude are you alluding to here :confused:

EDIT: more seriously, i'd rather go w/ rpm too :o :hidding:
Me taking the piss lol.

abill_uk 2011-07-23 10:39
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
I am thinking of making a new thread ... community rant ..... what do you think? then we can get off this one alltogether.

danramos 2011-07-25 06:24
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Why a new thread? We were RAGING SO HARD here about what to do. What did everyone end up deciding so far? Were there any good ideas or are we truly winding down?

abill_uk 2011-07-25 06:44
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1057672)
Why a new thread? We were RAGING SO HARD here about what to do. What did everyone end up deciding so far? Were there any good ideas or are we truly winding down?
Because the "council" do not like us talking about the future of Maemo.org on this thread.

We are trolls .... remember !.

abill_uk 2011-07-25 06:48
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Is it me or has it gone ghostly quiet on here ????.

abill_uk 2011-07-25 06:53
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotoflex (Post 1056564)
Visiting this topic today, I noticed that after your post is something I had never seen before: a full page of posts from people on my ignore list, & the start of another page in the same way.

The topic is of interest, but it has been buried by trolls & self-aggrandizers. This is a plain failure of moderation, a waste of the forum resource, & an obvious fatal weakness of the communtiy structure. The moderators may find the trolls amusing, but they have by not restraining them been complicit in gutting the community structure.
This is what i am reffering too.

misterc 2011-07-25 07:08
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1057682)
This is what i am reffering too.
referring to your last two posts...

maybe it isn't only you...
know the expression "silence is loud"
(with or without her whispers ¦-)

remember the lack of leaderships?
managers hide from responsibilities, decisions in fact.
councils are a perfect place therefore, in full sight :mad:

abill_uk 2011-07-25 07:14
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1057687)
referring to your last two posts...

maybe it isn't only you...
know the expression "silence is loud"
(with or without her whispers ¦-)

remember the lack of leaderships?
managers hide from responsibilities, decisions in fact.
councils are a perfect place therefore, in full sight :mad:
Yes i know how it is but you know what gets me is the fact that they will have talked about Maemo.org in great detail i dont doubt but we are the last people to find out anything :confused:.

misterc 2011-07-25 07:19
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1057688)
Yes i know how it is but you know what gets me is the fact that they will have talked about Maemo.org in great detail i dont doubt but we are the last people to find out anything :confused:.
have a look around...
what do we still need the council for? :|
facts lie louder then words...
they failed to do anything so far; how likely is this to change?

ysss 2011-07-25 07:24
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
You're acting like a child.
They whine or they try to annoy the adults when they want attention/their diapers changed.

Any mature person knows that they should show (and earn) respect to be taken seriously.

(texcuse my avatar. )

lma 2011-07-25 07:34
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 1054892)
Having just scrolled through two pages of non-productive crap, I suggest such discussions don't a) occur on this thread and b) maybe not even on this forum.
+1. I suggest a new thread on this forum[1] specifically about the community hosting and maintenance of non-forum[2] maemo.org infrastructure. Off-topic posts to that thread should be moderated with extreme prejudice.


[1] simply because it can be moderated more easily than the mailing list
[2] the future of tmo is really up to Reggie IMHO

abill_uk 2011-07-25 07:41
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1057694)
+1. I suggest a new thread on this forum[1] specifically about the community hosting and maintenance of non-forum[2] maemo.org infrastructure. Off-topic posts to that thread should be moderated with extreme prejudice.


[1] simply because it can be moderated more easily than the mailing list
[2] the future of tmo is really up to Reggie IMHO
With posts like this all you will achieve is to alienate the very people who use this forum sorry to say.

misterc 2011-07-25 07:44
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1057688)
Yes i know how it is but you know what gets me is the fact that they will have talked about Maemo.org in great detail i dont doubt but we are the last people to find out anything :confused:.
anymore questons? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1056673)
[...]

but of course, banning (even temporarily) is just one of those autocratic reaction, denying open & free speech.
[...]
´nough said :mad:

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1057694)
[...]
[2] the future of tmo is really up to Reggie IMHO
TMO is really what is @ stake here, isn't it?

abill_uk 2011-07-25 07:47
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Like it or not we DO have a situation on our hands in that Maemo as far as Nokia is concerned been whitewashed and finished with as no further development will take place from them.

Where do we get advised if not on a council thread that is public?.

abill_uk 2011-07-25 07:52
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
If you do not want your washing aired in public then do not start a thread with the title "[Council] Council_Update-July_2011 " as this IS public for everyone to read.

All we want are some answers as to the future of TMO:confused:.

lma 2011-07-25 08:00
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 1055917)
I wouldn't say "acclaim" is the right word (in the most common meaning); maybe "selected because no-one else would get off their arse and volunteer [and thus give 6 or more candidates for 5 positions, meaning an election is required]".
I confess I briefly thought about it, but without a 7th candidate it would just cancel out the last one's (conditional) entry and at the end decided "better him than me". Gaming the system doesn't do any of us any favours.

Since it's brought up, I would like to propose (assuming there is a next time) that we close the loophole that allows a non-elected council. The spirit of the rules (as the page says at the top) is "The 5 council members will be elected by the community" so this seems more like an off-by-1 error than an intended case anyway. The simplest fix would be s/fewer/no more/ in:
Code:
10. If fewer than 5 candidates stand for election, the 3 with the most votes are elected to the council.

lma 2011-07-25 08:08
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1057696)
TMO is really what is @ stake here, isn't it?
No, it is only a small part of maemo.org and as I said it's really up to Reggie.

How would you like it if all existing Maemo apps, as well as the infrastructure to develop new ones, community SSUs etc all disappeared in a few months when Nokia funding dries up? Because that's what at stake here.

misterc 2011-07-25 08:16
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1057704)
No, it is only a small part of maemo.org and as I said it's really up to Reggie.

How would you like it if all existing Maemo apps, as well as the infrastructure to develop new ones, community SSUs etc all disappeared in a few months when Nokia funding dries up? Because that's what at stake here.
like abill pointed out, your holding "meetings" on irc channels & all instead on being on TMO shows badly, with this post :(

Future of Maemo 5 Fremantle

don't know to what (lucky?) circumstance we owe your presence here today, but maybe you'll have some time to read up a possible answer to your question?

abill_uk 2011-07-25 08:41
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysss (Post 1057690)
You're acting like a child.
They whine or they try to annoy the adults when they want attention/their diapers changed.

Any mature person knows that they should show (and earn) respect to be taken seriously.

(texcuse my avatar. )
This is the kind of posting that should be abolished on this forum because it is not only trolling and flaming trying to start argument, he will never give up this kind of behaviour unless something is done about him.

Shame on you ysss when all we are trying to do is get some answers ! and you yourself said "whining and ranting is the only way to get answers sometimes".

Whoever it was directed at !.

lma 2011-07-25 09:05
Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1057706)
like abill pointed out
Would you like to point to a specific post (due to this thread he has become the first and only occupant in my ignore list)?

Quote:
your holding "meetings" on irc channels & all instead on being on TMO shows badly, with this post :(
Oh please. I am not holding any meetings anywhere, and in fact I just said we should discuss this in this very forum, just on a new thread without trolls and off-topic diversions.

I don't care about Fremantle personally.

Quote:
don't know to what (lucky?) circumstance we owe your presence here today, but maybe you'll have some time to read up a possible answer to your question?
Sorry, I don't understand this sentence.


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