Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

I honestly don't know.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

This talk about Nokia is all crazy and needs to stop.

What does it matter if they are eventually going to stop funding, better to think positive and make plans for this community to carry on.

It is very obvious many people want and actually need a community of some sort so that is where it should be looking now.

This is called a backup plan or plan b as it were.

To be honest i am sick to death of talk talk talk about Nokia this and NOkia that.

Make a community and secure it's future against any such company that would or could pull the plug, that way it's future is purely in the hands of it's council and it's members.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

thanks for clarifying this.

thus fundamentally that amounts to the middle option, having to make their mind up.
which leaves the community with the trickiest option, how to prepare for the worst without alienating NOKIA :confused:

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

Do you really need to know Nokia's position????.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

That is understandable.
Btw can you post a link or a transcript where you did contact them?

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

The way I read it so far by following forum and mailing lists, they have told us it is the option 2, as stated by Quim Gil

For all concerned I advise following the mailing lists (especially community!) more carefully, since there are interesting topics out there:

E.g.
My Perception of the Maemo/MeeGo Community by Michael Cronenworth

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

Your remark is 150% accurate.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

The very reason i said stop to talk about Nokia and move on.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

While not Debian, there was a lot of pushback proposing this when Mer was supposed to be used as Ubuntu Mobile.. the GTK thing screwed up so many things making it unacceptable for inclusion

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

thanks :p
thank you also for the link in your previous post!

i think option two would be a business rationale anyway.
this doesn't mean that NOKIA are lost or have no clue where they are going, or, even worth, that they have made up their mind (to stop the funding) but don't want to tell it.
rather, depending on market development (not only of MeeGo / N9 but also of the great unknown, wp7 on NOKIA (will ppl really see wp as a different product b/c it comes with the NOKIA logo?) and probably other factors we are not thinking of right now, NOKIA can't say now what they are going to do in what, 16 months?
it's probably already a struggle to say that much on a 6 months horizon, thus, 12+ months, forget it.
anything can...

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

Did anybody try at all to make it acceptable?

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

If that would happen.... oh my. Not Canonical.One of their many issues is; they can not even QA their base distro correctly.

(I was burned by their sloppy integration too many times)

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

well, i don't have a clue about what your issue is (blame that on me being a clueless user who just recently slapped Ubuntu on my laptop). i just thought they have the MONEY.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

So you basically just sell your *** for the monies?

My issues had been mostly technical stuff (****ed up distro-upgrades with new kernels that were not properly integrated during upgrade, their hilarious PulseAudio integration saga, Kubuntu having really bad KDE integration, amongst others like major regressions that creeped in every release), but some of those do also apply.

Had a look-out for a rolling-release KDE-based Debian then, and living happily with aptosid (former sidux) for ~3 years now.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

There is already council candidate who propose merging with debian.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

not really, just don't know what the reasons are. for regular users ubuntu looks good and since it's Canonical in the background they seem nice and sparkly to the clueless too.

regular users and new converts are part of the community too right? take my ideas as coming that side. :)

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

i will be using my N900 till it is dead, am in so love with this device i dont even think of replacing it. i cant find any other device in market that will be fun to play with in terms of it openness. i was looking forward for N950, but they will not sell to end user. i love this community so much i visit every day without a miss even though we dont have new things happening. Thanks for every thing.
i will keep my N900 till i die, so i can show my grand children, how i am proud to use and have N900.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

HAHAHA your crazy but good intentions hehehehe ;).

PS and posts like this is another reason there should be no talk whatsoever of closing down Maemo.org in any way or form !.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

I can't vote anyway, being a long-time lurker (since 11/2010) but just registered in July which is one month short of the requirement.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

It's a bit off the current stream of discussion but I wanted to share this. Many people here espessially older and wiser members remeber the itt days and want to go back to something tablet-oriented. But most of new members came here because of a phone, the N900. I know it's not only a phone, but it is still pocketable and can be used as a primary phone. I use the N900 as a tablet too and I could use a tethered N8xx but todays tablets are mostly over the 7" mark and that makes them not pocketable. I, and many here I believe are after phones (think that todays smartphones have screens about the same size as earlier NIT's)

For these reasons I urge everybody to have phones (as in pocketable) in mind too when shaping future decisions.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

Phone functionality is also crucial for me (I don't need tablet-only device, I got my lightweight notebook [not netbook] for that), but to even talk about that, we need to settle financing things first ;)

BTW, phone functionality was first thing i asked in CordiaTAB thread, and it was confirmed that HSPA module via miniPCIE allow that, with proper software.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

If we want to keep Maemo/Hildon UI live, we should find a way to enable it to run on other open devices, or devices that are not locked. Since Nokia has stated that they would not release new Maemo/Meego device, we should try to find a new hardware.

This device may be a good choice:
http://en.miui.com/
it's based on CyanogenMod's work.
http://www.cyanogenmod.com/

Maybe we could rebuild the Maemo user experience on Android/Meego OS Core, which may enable it for further development?

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

@Koh

WRONG!!

We need to add the MIUI interface to Maemo/MeeGo core... then we'd see adoption. Not the other way around.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

Strange thread. The conclusion seem to be that the end is definitely not coming anytime soon, and there is no consensus what so ever about what to do next. :)

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

I think this thread was made purely for feedback to see if it was worth taking this forum to another place when Nokia bail out.

If the forum is left for free running then it will always be popular especially the history it has already made.

As for going back to ITT = no way it should ever comsider that choice as others have said this is a MOBILE PHONE community not just tablets.

This thread is way to early and i wish the commitee were half as active as the answers coming on this thread !.

Reggie would be stir crazy to shut this lot down !!!.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

I think we've found out that there is still a lot of life yet in this 'dying' community.

PS: You two are absolutely absolutists...

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

This community is active for the devices it deals with so if we bring in other devices other than Nokia then you will have a real thriving community BUT the moderators would be VERY active hahaha because the jelousy would be high among for instance the iphone and Nokia mobs ;).

MeeGo and Maemo has a place on just about everything with a free bootloader ;).

PS Nokia might well be a company of the past soon !.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

I think that the forum is not actually an issue (it's relatively easy to move).
The real problem is the rest of the infrastructure (build system and repositories, especially for the distribution rights of the closed bits).

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

Yes that is an obvious problem but i still feel there should be no talk of shutting down this forum when as you said it is easy to move, let's face it Nokia are NOT the beggining and end of everything.

It could be a whole lot more interesting if split into sections for each manufacturers devices, it would be the one and only forum to come too for just about anything for any device.

Would need a lot of work though from its commitee and moderators ;).

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

I would prefer debian, which probably requires more work, but has a wider community to recruit developers (no pouching, since there is no conflicting project interest), and also there it is not controlled by large corporations.

Some will argue meego is open, but there are different aspects to openness than purely source code. Meego is controlled by corporations, which really make decisions through Meego Technical Steering Group.

Imagine the following situation, MTSG decides to move to armvXXX, and makes appropriate platform changes that may be incompatible with existing devices.

I think running cordia hd or similar project exclusively on meego is a dangerous proposition, instead I would like to suggest debian either as a primary, or secondary platform.

You can say this is politics, but since the big ones choose to form Steering Groups to preserve their own interests, there is a very good reason to preserve its own interests.

Besides having this based on meego, will enable poaching of developers. The people from the 770 days know what I am talking about.

There are some people out there who are famous for:

• WANTFIXES,
• fixed in XXXX,
• and differentiation remarks
• obsoleted hardware

https://meego.com/sites/all/files/im...p_8jun2010.png

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

@ momcilo Your dammm right we want FIXES ! have we not had enough of the NOFIX situation with Nokia?.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

It is not jus about NOFIX, it is about the ability of community to steer, and not to be steered.

The question for all, what do you prefer:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ullockcart.jpg

or this:

http://inphotoboard.com/images/Holidays/gnu-picture.jpg

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

IF the community has to rely on any company for anything at all then it will fall flat on its face for sure.

One thing this community HAS learned from Nokia , should be never to have to rely on another team to do the work.

OK i will edit this post to say they SHOULD have learned from the fiasco with Nokia :confused:.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

I think they have not learned. Old oxen have either learned the truth and stayed away from it, or they've became part of the system.

The young ones still see only the single device in a time, and diligently pull( :D ) the carts.

We will soon learn if this is still true. :confused:

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

There seem to be two separate major requirements:

1) Those of us still using N900 phones want somewhere to discuss them, get software for them, put software we develop for them, etc. This is a declining but still sizeable user community.

In my view, we should be encouraging Nokia to keep funding Maemo.org to do that but if/when they decide to stop we should be planning on how to continue. Exactly how that happens will depend on when Nokia pull the plug and how large the community is at that time. My guess is that the main things to worry about at that time will be the forums and the repositories, and the CSSU. Things like the autobuilder, the promotion process and garage could all be dropped, along with karma, planet and several other things. It could probably become small enough that no funding is needed -- one or two community members would probably be willing to fund the limited infrastructure needed (like many other small hobbyist communities work).

2) Does Maemo have a future on other devices, either alone or merged with other projects (MeeGo, Cordia, whatever)? Personally, I think the answer is no. When my N900 dies I plan to revert to what I had before the N900: a small and fairly dumb phone and a fairly small (pocketable) tablet which tethers via the phone.

My view is that no one is going to make a great phone and open up its software: the phone market is just far too cut-throat, with massive development costs and risks and further consolidation so there will only be three or four companies left with the ability to make a great phone.

But I think the tablet market will be much more open, with many more manufacturers, offering devices in different form factors and targetted at different markets. I think some of those will offer good, inexpensive, pocketable tablets and will be looking for cheap software for them. That will allow much more open and hackable software. What will that be? It probably won't be Maemo. It might be MeeGo (that seems to be where Intel are taking MeeGo). Or it might be something else. I plan to join whichever community meets my needs best at the time.

Of course, my personal views don't stop anyone from trying to make Maemo into that future OS, or even stop anyone from believing that there can be a future open phone OS. But I won't be offering any support for that. I am looking only to my first point: how do we continue to support the shrinking N900/N810/770 user community. I would like council candidates to be clear about which of these problems they are planning to address.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

I hope ALL of them ;).

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

Dropping the autobuilder and garage!!!!!? Are you nuts????
We can't drop garage without migrating everything there to sourceforge or berlios or somewhere else, which is a huge task by itself, and how would we upload new software to the repos without the autobuilder?

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

No, it is a serious proposal. Only after Nokia decide they are not willing to continue funding them, of course.

Neither is needed -- plenty of other projects manage without them. There are plenty of garage alternatives on the Internet and developers can build their packages themselves and upload them directly to the repository.

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

It is time to fight back, time to call Elop's bluff and attack Nokia, raise the flag in this community i say and let the battle commence !. ;) :D

Re: The End is Coming: What do we do next?
 

Yes, and let the money flow cut off even earlier. Great idea! Revolution!

(or was that called suicide..)