[Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

http://static.maemo.org/static/4/46c...0b5b0_vote.jpg

It's been six months which have flown by, but the current Maemo Community Council's term is coming to an end and it's time for the next election.

The next election's voting will run from Thursday, 22nd September to Wednesday, 28th September.

What will be decided

COUNCIL MEMBERS - The council is a body of volunteers taken from the Maemo community that acts as a focal point for the community.Historically, Council's role has been limited to representing developers on, and users of, maemo.org to Nokia (and vice versa). Examples of council activity can be found on the Council homepage or in the blog. However, the governance referendum in this election may change the role of Council.

GOVERNANCE REFERENDUM - Due to Nokia's announcement that it will stop funding for maemo.org in 2012, there will be a referendum and a vote to determine the future of maemo.org. There will be an opportunity to vote in favor of updating the role of Council so that it can organize a form of governance for the community OR in favor of winding down maemo.org when the funding stops (thus making*the 1st option unnecessary). There have been several related discussions on the forum:

Council Update July 2011
A modest proposal for a direction
Community Governance
The End is Coming

What's next?

Community members should carefully consider the governance referendum at this time. It must be debated for a minimum of one month prior to the election, and therefore the referendum will not be changed after Monday, 22nd August 2011

Community members should be considering whether they want to stand for Council. Anyone who has karma of over 100 is eligible to stand, including employees and sub-contractors of Nokia. When nominations open, you can nominate someone via an email to maemo-community (which they must reply to to accept) or you can put your own hat into the ring by emailing the same list. A further announcement will be made when nominations open, with more information.


The election timescale (all times UTC) is:

Nominations open: 00:00, Thursday, 1st September 2011
Nominations close: 23:59, Wednesday, 15th September 2011
Voting opens: 00:00, Thursday, 22nd September 2010
Voting closes: 23:59, Wednesday, 28th September 2010

How does the vote work?

Each member of maemo.org, who has an account that is more than 3 months old and who has earned over 10 "karma" points on that account, gets an electronic ballot. The election is a "single transferrable vote". They rank their Council candidates in order of preference; if their top candidate cannot get elected with the votes they receive, the votes are redistributed until all five seats have been allocated. The governance referendum vote will be taken at the same time as the Council vote.



Link: Original article.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

Wait, what?!

We are having a vote that can decide to abandon maemo.org based on a majority who is leaving for other platforms/places (and therefore does not even belong in this community anymore IMHO) and thus block anyone who is willing to work to keep it alive, and destroy any chance of negotiating permissions to host binaries etc with Nokia?

Please don't shoot our feet like that.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

I feel as though I am missing something here. I've clicked on the links in the OP (some of which are broken) and short of re-reading through multiple pages of the linked discussions, I don't see a "referendum" anywhere?

Leads me to believe that there is a referendum in existence somewhere so that it can be debated, possibly changed, and finalized before Aug 22, 4 days from now?

I'm guessing I overlooked something, but it would be nice to have a direct link to the referendum in question in this thread. I apologize for missing it wherever it is.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

I hope you know me as the person who is working to keep maemo alive.

Although Qole has stated in email that he isn't seeking to block my efforts to keep maemo alive, I suggest a review of my response in the "end is coming" thread if you haven't already:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=23

People have pointed to the limited authority of Council as being a conduit to Nokia and I believe a majority of the current council is of the same opinion as Qole (at least they haven't joined me in my work to keep maemo alive).

There is no chance to negotiate permissions to host binaries etc with Nokia unless we organize into a legal entity. If there is anyway to organize maemo community into a legal entity without a vote, please describe it. I realize that there is an inequity that members who have not participated in awhile or who don't currently support maemo are eligible to vote. But I don't know any way around that at the current time.

Here is the currently proposed wording of my referendum (Jaffa is engaging the issue in the ML) subject to debate until August 22:

"Should the Community Council be authorized to form a governance structure which sees the continued support of maemo devices and survival of maemo-based and derived open source software even without Nokia involvement?

[ ] Yes
[ ] No"

I welcome friendly amendments. I don't want to see maemo wound down.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

I do, ergo the shock!

I would expect to see a few concrete proposals, followed by debate (people are going to have strong feeling about things like jurisdiction for example) followed by a vote between the proposed options (including "none of the above"). A referendum on chosing between (some vague notion of) organising or winding down right now seems both forced and premature to me.

That's arguably better, but still too vague. Many people's gut reaction (including mine I think) would be to not give the next (unknown) council carte blanche on something that important.

What are the implications of a "no" result?

Also, why such a short debate period? Can we at least extend it to match the nomination period for the council?

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

@SD69 Before the referendum, it may be a good idea to have a census?

Each person should enter:

• forum name
• interest type (developer, user)
• owned device(s)
• devices considered for future

The members attending the census, are the ones most likely to debate, vote, contribute.

The collected data should be compared to the number of repository refreshes, to get the idea how many people did not register on census.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

My apologies for the broken link (posting to three different mechanisms with different coding reqt's and for some reason I can't edit this thread).

Any way here is the (unbroken) link to the Maemo election process

http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

It is still broken.
Correct link.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

Just a clarification: the council has not discussed this internally, so it is important to make it clear that I didn't agree to make this referendum binding in any way; it should not "determine" anything, only provide guidance for the next council as to the general will of the tiny minority of the community who actually bothers to vote.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

@qole and @SD69

Please coordinate.

Qole, usually the voters delegate their decision rights to council members, who than make decisions.

However in this case this decision is of strategic importance, so the pool of voters should have direct impact.

That will provide the next Council with the credibility to facilitate independence of maemo.org as a legal entity.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

I would also expect to see some concrete proposals (from Council candidates).

I think now is the right time. We now know for sure Nokia will be cutting off funding. The community is currently thinking proactively about its future. It takes time to organize a non-profit, and then for that non-profit to negotiate (request is a better word I think) things from Nokia. And the "just shut it down" proponents will only get stronger over the next six months.



Keep in mind Council will also be voted on at the same time and probed for their position on the issue. We can be more exact and say "organize as a non-profit", but we do want to keep some things flexible to react to changed circumstances. We also don't want to splinter the "yes" vote wtih several different detailed proposals, although that might be addressed with a transferable vote.

Status quo continues, and maemo.org is eventually wound down.

There will be one month of debate on the merits of the referendum (August 22 - September 22). Currently, I am putting the referendum out there so it can be crowdsourced before August 22 and people won't vote against it merely because of the wording or something like that.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

In addition, as Quim noted, Nokia has not yet decided to stop funding, so that phrasing needs fixing.

Reference to quote, please? Because Quim's email response said that there was no final decision yet.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

Council members, do you think the census might provide us with some useful information?

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

I hope they don't decide at the end of 2012. There should be a reasonable time limit for them to react.

At the same time it is not wise to antagonise Nokia over this, since they may decide to cut funding earlier, plus we still hope to have some help over closed binaries.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

According to Quim today we know for sure that Nokia will not be cutting off funding before the end of 2012. It might even continue beyond that, it just hasn't been decided yet.

If we get to vote this time - I would like to see a referendum on closing the 5-candidate loophole however.

Well, "the referendum will not be changed after Monday, 22nd August 2011" feels a bit like an ambush to me, particularly since I'm travelling in a few hours and I won't be able to participate in any discussion before it's too late.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

The cutoff for debate (1 month before election) is in the rules - nothing I can do about it.

Three days ago I asked (although it was not my responsibility) council members if any of them would supervise the election and got no volunteers. I also found out this morning Dave Neary is on vacation. So I went about the task of the election blog posting/forum thread/mailing list announcement.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

SD69: I'm sorry that you think I am against "keeping maemo alive".

I will make my position clear. Please excuse my bluntness:

Firstly:

My main problem is that I don't think the 2011.2 council will be able to do much to prepare the Maemo infrastructure. It is clear that the Nokia / Nemien guys don't see any point in hurrying to do anything yet, and we can bustle around and make plans all we want, but they're of the opinion that we should wait a while (at least until summer 2012). I agree with them that we should wait a bit more, but also if we try to push them too hard, they'll just start passively resisting and dragging their heels, and our requests will get more and more shrill, and bad blood will develop...

You must remember, the council / community has no real power here. We're not paying anyone to do anything, the money is coming from Nokia, so we have to be very reasonable and persuasive, not demanding. We have to get them on our side, get them to see the merits of our position, otherwise we'll be talking to a blank wall.

I'm speaking from a position of several council terms' experience here. If the guys doing the infrastructure work don't agree with you, or don't want to do the work, they'll just ignore you or drag their heels. And who do you complain to if they're not doing what you say? It's not like there's an ombudsman out there to take the Maemo community's complaints...

Secondly:

I believe the future of Maemo depends upon actual developers doing actual development to continue the platform, not on a bunch of guys posting in a forum. The guys doing the actual work are doing it right now, and you can see the fruits of their labours in the CSSU, the N900 MeeGo CE and Cordia, plus a host of other, related projects like the Power Kernel and Enhanced BusyBox projects.

What will really matter in 12 months time is not the outcome of referendums, who is in the Council, or who has posted what in TMO, but the status of the projects I mentioned above.

If the key projects have lost momentum, and they've gone "stale", and the developers have gone on to more interesting platforms, then Maemo is dead, it is a museum artifact, whether or not we keep posting in this forum. If they are alive, and the remaining community is still clustered around them, then that community can better decide what they should do next.

Lastly:

I also believe that just because you have a strong opinion about how to save Maemo does not make you Maemo's savior. We all care, otherwise we wouldn't be here, so please don't try to make it sound like those who aren't in agreement with your ideas just want Maemo to die.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

I think we should push the vote out by a week or two, until Dave gets back, just so we can deal with issues like the 5 candidate loophole and a debate cutoff of 4 days.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

qole thank you VERY much for that very useful, needed summary. I could not have put it better.

+1000000

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

We all care and afraid of whats coming next but there is still much time to secretly decide by the community heroes to drive this community in a right direction.
lets hope whoever wins the election,works in the best interest of the community,i wish here come more and more developers so that the maemo work can be kind of appealing .
( by qole )if we try to push them too hard, they'll just start passively resisting and dragging their heels, and our requests will get more and more shrill, and bad blood will develop... > i agree with this part <
hope for the best though !

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

Please consider hosting the master referendum on a wiki page here... as I noted in qole's thread, input is already scattering...

(thank this post if you agree)

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

Qole: I am sure you care and that you have reached your position with regrettable sadness and melancholy, and you wish that Nokia funding would continue so things could be otherwise. I will grant that for you the decision feels a bit like that of reluctantly deciding to euthanize a pet and that you didn't want it to happen.

You haven't read the referendum carefully. I will respond on the merits during the debate period (August 22 - September 22).

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

Hm, I was under the impression that, while Nokia is the bill payer, the council (representing the community) is the actual customer and has final say on what gets done etc.

(I'm also under the impression that Nemein, maemo staff, community, council etc are all on the same side and Nokia corporate was the only entity needing convincing)

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

You should be able to write a referendum for the 5 candidate issue in a matter of minutes. It is a rather straight forward issue. The debate is not for 4 days; it is for one month.

The vote does not happen until more than one month from now. And it can't be pushed because it has to occur within 6 months of the last election. I think it would not violate the rules to push out or shorten the time period for council nominations.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

Despite a little "mess" here on the beginning, I'm starting to save money for [whatever].org donation for operating. And I suggest everyone interested in keeping Maemo (under whatever name) alive, to do the same - as I see it's only real option for independent, legal organization.

Back on topic, If i understand correctly, discussion will last for a month, but referendum question will be "frozen" after 4 days? So, discussing about it seems quite non-constructive, isn't it?

Let's have at least 2 weeks for concluding on correct questions for referendum, then, another 2 weeks for discussions it before voting - if vote date is frozen already.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

I want a third choice on the referendum:
"[ ] I don't think it is time to make this decision"

And I don't think we should have a vote on the 5 candidate rule, we should just change it so there's always a vote, you can't just become a council member because you nominated yourself.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

Waiting for the second half of 2012, is too late for maemo.org. The decision on the future must be made well before that. Second half of 2012, is the time when most of the plan should be put in action.

I think maemo.org can not afford it to wait that much, since it is obvious meego will not wait for it.

Besides, it looks rather depressive when council member of maemo.org pronounces it dead, and proposes delaying the action.

It reminded me of February/2011.

Yeah, I know this too provocative, but still that is the general feeling.

I do agree that there should be no haste decisions, and without actual data on user/developer base.

How about census to determine the characteristics of maemo community?

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

I disagree and want to see the option qole proposed to be included in the vote (if there's going to be one).

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

That gives me an idea, thanks to comments you and qole have made:

Why not have a referendum of referendums? The council can agree on the core theme, and then let every community member propose their solutions. Each proposal would be included as a referendum item; those that tackle the same issue would be mutually exclusive in the vote.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

A good idea. However, I've not got the time to discuss this in two places, and maemo-community is the canonical place for such discussions (which is more easily archived, threaded, searched and followed offline). So, I'm going to hold my tongue here and reply to the "binding" issue again on the mailing list. Thread here.

Any change to the election process requires a referendum. Them's the rules.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

I don't mind the third option as long as the delay is not too great (4-6 months) instead of end of 2012.

In the case of short period, it is wise, since it allows for graceful recovery without antagonising Nokia.

Long waiting in combination with option 3 is virtually equal to option 2, with one tiny difference - people pursuing/hoping for the resurrection of maemo loose their time during that period.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

I wrote:

Will Alice do all the work? We've had problems getting a sufficient number of candidates in recent/all elections - why will staffing an NFP be any easier, when it actually requires real work?

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

BTW, I'm not sure whether or not to be flattered - or worried - that the example wording for a particular type of referendum I suggested has, with good tweaks, been adopted by SD69 :-)

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

Jaffa for TSG!

wait-- wrong thread.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

:-) Definitely a different thread. And the tales I could tell you about #jaffa4tsg... over a beer, probably.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

I'll buy .

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

Another proposal: we could have a referendum on decoupling future referenda from council elections. Then we can deal with the reorg without immediate pressure and rushed decisions, but also without having to wait another 6 months.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

There is no requirement for referenda to be held concurrently with Council elections.

Indeed, all the referenda to date have been about changing the rules before the next election.

EDIT: So when SD69 says:

I don't know to what he is referring. There are two references to "1 month" in the Council election rules:

• #9: The election date must be publicised at least 1 month in advance of the election.
• #12.2: The referendum options must be debated for a minimum of 1 month prior to the referendum.

It is therefore the choice of the Council as to how long the referendum debate and council hustings may be (with restrictions, see also points #1, #2 and #8)

My reading of point 12.2 (and, since I wrote it, I think my reading should count for something - although I'm going off my thoughts now, not what they were 3.5 years ago) is not the same as SD69's. When he says:

This is not debating the options. The debate of the options has only started today. There is no proposed referendum yet, and so there's a month to form the question, and its options. I may be wrong, other opinions may vary.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

I'm puzzled why rules that were instituted by "fiat" now require a referendum to be changed? Why did the "founding fathers" have the extra power to create rules without a community vote?

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections - September 2011
 

There was a community consensus at the time, and there was a community vote to give the initial council a mandate: http://maemo.org/vote/results.php?election_id=1

I don't remember people giving much input on the rules at the time; but this is massively off-topic now. You're on the Council, and you have to live by the rules of the body you volunteered to serve on. If you wanted to change it, you should've held a referendum ;-p