Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

I guess you mean playing movies on a mobile platform that is not x86?
I assumed you were talking about nvidia and ati on desktops.

I hope that business model will change once Intel creates competitive chip-set with open specification.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Wow... way to miss the point about involvement from end-user up. MeeGo has been end-user hostile... and in fact, pretty hostile to everyone except developers--even vendors seems to act as if it's hostile although I'm not entirely sure why the MeeGo platform would want to give this impression.

That's incorrect. While you CAN use 3D acceleration to do a better job of texturing video onto any size and shape on the screen (windowed or fullscreen), you don't have to have 3D... and even when you DO have a 3D video card, you often still don't use the 3D acceleration portions of the video card to do so. It's far more common to use the 2D acceleration functions and hardware MPEG (if your card supports it) to flawlessly decode AND resize video onto any region of the screen (any size and shape, again) in a 2D overlay fashion. This is the way it's been done for many years before 3D was being used to do video presentation and it's still pretty common.

This isn't to say that you CANNOT use 3D to do this... I'm just saying that you don't 100% NEED 3D to do this even with acceleration and resizing.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Seems like the GPU+CPU Sandybridge is the way. I already bought one with my new Asus laptop and I'm already seeing the benefits.. HUGE benefits. :) It was nice installing Ubuntu and checking for proprietary drivers to notice NONE needed. :)

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

EXACTLY and the main reason why meego never stood a chance for the n900.

What is the point of labelling meego as open source when the devices that include meego parts are shrouded by closed source drivers for components within every single device meego has ever had anything to do with.

Only one way meego could be open source and that is for it to be applied to a NON closed device and upto now that has never ever happened and probably never will.

momcilo actually talks it the way it is unlike the blinkered people on here.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

That's my point, that's it, although it looks a bit different on mobile platforms as mentioned.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

As I understood it (I'm not expert here), it's not that much different--instead of MPEG decoding hardware, they sometimes use a DSP to decode independent of the CPU but directly to the video display just the same as the old-school MPEG decoders did... scaled and all.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

I have a feeling x86 systems are slowly moving to the way of a System On Chip. I think the general mentality was, by having the different components in the same segment, your able to cut out few hardware regulators in many areas, relying purely on low-level software, which increases your net energy efficiency and responsiveness.

Already you can see netbooks and tablets which lack the some legacy traits, such as connectors, ability to increase ram, or exchange storage. And the move by AMD to fuse the CPU and GPU on the same die.

I think in a way, to save power you need smaller parts (nm), slower parts (undervolt), less parts (more components withing a single chip), and more parts (ie cores). I think the ball is really in Intel's court, if they can utilize their expertise and get closer to ARM's layout, they stand to gain the most out of MeeGo.

And that's the truth to the matter, NOKIA never needed Maemo nor MeeGo and had very little to do with the platform. Symbian was their bread and butter, and the entire 5 years that's what they focused on. Android was their biggest competitor, not Apple, and they failed to adapt and lost. Nokia was hoping Intel's strategy for next-generation cores was closer than expected (by mid-2011), which would mean Intel would have needed to complete the MeeGo-Project by 2010. Obviously there was delays back in mid-2010 on Intel's side, and Nokia chose to let Intel find the solution; disregarding its own base (Symbian developers). And this was the fatal blow to Nokia, they lost communication within the board, and failed to acknowledge that a failure of MeeGo would mean a failure to Nokia's roadmap. Which is why the board took the best option they had, they f*cked Microsoft, and now hope to re-enter the market. Year(s) later Chipzilla would overtake the market and cause the big ARMvsX86 deathmatch, at which point Intel would use the expertise they gained from MeeGo, perhaps displaying a truly polished operating system, which would make "analysts" think Nokia made a bad decision by reverting from MeeGo to Windows Phone, when it is actually the right decision.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Reverting from MeeGo to Windows is a bad decision. Windows Phone is dead, and Nokia is dead with it.

Microsoft doesn't care -- in two years they will abandon the current incarnation of Windows Phone only to move on to their 'next best thing', Windows TabPhone XP 11 or something. Microsoft has been doing this for the last 15 years already, and they can easily continue doing the same for the next 15.

Nokia doesn't have two years to play along with Microsoft experiments. In two years Nokia will be bankrupt or bought out.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

I'm with tkatchev. Considering how many years Microsoft has burned their customers and distributors and even the salespeople who were told that THIS time Windows Mobile will be a hot seller... no wait... THIS TIME FOR SURE! Okay okay okay... THIS time! ...Microsoft's mobile strategy is hardly a good decision from top-to-bottom. It's already proven to be a losing strategy and I can't see how Nokia will be any better off for it.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Agreed. Android's sales rocketed, while Winmo 1-6.5 never saw sales close to that.
Who's to say it would be different this time? Android 2.3 on my Desire HD is actually pretty zippy compared to iOS 5 beta on my 3GS. WP7 Mango on my HD2 OTOH is a huge POS.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

^to be fair though, WP7 wasn't meant to be run on an HD2. (unless you meant HD7, then good point.)

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

No it is the BEST decision. I used to agree with you, but after careful consideration I cannot.
If Nokia waited for MeeGo, then Nokia would only have Smartphones selling at the rate of Samsung's Bada (which isn't as bad as some think). But in the long run, WP7 would improve and surpass Bada and become the third largest ecosystem (or tied with RIM).

If Nokia chose Android, it would cause a monopoly and Nokia's gains would be short term as Samsung and other manufaturers would have enough leverage against Nokia.

If Nokia chose WP7, they have a shot at long-term victory. While it is a very narrow shot, it's the only one they have. And this time Microsoft has changed its game, it is beyond its Windows Mobile days, it knows the value in mobile systems, and the risks concerning ecosystems.

The BEST decision NOKIA could've made was to contribute (highly) to the MeeGo-Projekt and also buy Palm. As I've listed in this post, doing so would make them number three in the smartphone marketshare by the end of this year. But Nokia's internal miscommunications, misjudgements, and poor choices lead them to resort to a Microsoft assfuc!

Maemo + Moblin + WebOS = magic!

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

I'm pretty sure I can disagree with your assessment. Maemo/MeeGo COULD have done quite well with a persistent push and a strong backing from a company as big as Nokia HAD been at the time. The move toward Windows Phone 7 is precisely why Nokia is no longer the company it was and trending toward a less and less relevant player. So far, WP7 hasn't been a winner for anybody else, much less a company that, itself, is quickly losing brand loyalty and value.

Similarly, buying WebOS from HP would have done them no favors--it's the same dying, whithering atmosphere that surrounds Maemo/MeeGo right now. The same effects and discussions would have revolved around that, with the exception, maybe, of the possibility of being far more open-source leaning... but then, Nokia hasn't shown that they're interested in that aspect of Maemo before except as a PR stunt to puffer themselves up to developers and FOSS enthusiasts, why start now?

I would also question your judgement about labeling the use of Android as a monopoly. Is iOS suddenly irrelevant? What exactly makes the use of a highly customizable open system monopolistic? Is it the Android Market? Last time I checked, there are a myriad of Android devices that don't use it (including such well known brands as Archos and Amazon's new upcoming tablets). Certainly, it would be far less monopolistic and monoculturist than the Windows Phone 7 they chose to go with. I imagine an Ovistore on Android would be far easier to implement and far more sought after by even non-Nokia devices, if they played their cards right. What a missed opportunity by the shortsighted executive dunces at Nokia!

I, personally for all that's worth, think that Nokia would have done well to have stopped dribbling all over themselves as if they were developmentally challenged with the idiotic "this is step 4 of 5" and instead of putting so much effort into making SURE you couldn't separate the closed-source from the open-source to produce a hobbled closed-core trap... instead had placed all that time, resource and money into PROMOTION and actual DEVELOPMENT for an open-source friendly device and promoting it as the power of FOSS open-source servers in a tiny pocket-sized piece of kit... I'd bet THAT would have done wonders for everyone involved.

Well, so long as Eflop is in charge, that ship has sailed. Nokia, you could have been a contender... instead, you're sitting in the corner diddling yourself while everyone else is off learning, inventing and having fun. Windows Phone 7 isn't your savior... you watch.

http://pleco.org/heh/nokiadunce.jpg

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

So, where are all the MeeGo tablets?

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Nice comment tzsm98 ;)

Dan, the thing I'm trying to push here is the most probable outcomes, and HP/Palm is at the centre of it.
Within ~10 months (Apr-Jun 11), HP was able to transform the WebOS system, and make adaptations for its devices.
And HP has less experience than Nokia when it comes to creating an operating system, let alone an ecosystem.
However, HP's future with WebOS has come falling down simply because the market was late, HP didn't have enough contracts to pick it off the ground, there was many promising competitors, and public interest was low. The software was, scratch that, is really top-notch, it is the rest of the package which fails to deliver.

The example with HP is just to show that an effective software and promising hardware are not enough. You need the entire package; third-party support, availability, marketing, the works. Consumers are used to brands, which is why Apple is dominant. And Elop is actually right, consumers are also considering the ecosystem these days, not just the device.

Additionally, WP7 is more of a dumbbed-down-smartphone-os than iOS, or WebOS, or Android. And Nokia is the king of feature-phone market share, so the two really go hand-in-hand.

So the question must be asked, did Nokia have what it takes to create a new (MeeGo) operating system by Q2 2011?
-Yes, definitely.
Could it have created an (effective) ecosystem by Q2 2011?
-Definitely not.

The only way Nokia could have created an effective ecosystem, truly is if they beat Microsoft (or at least tied) to the market. And even then MeeGo may not have been enough. If they were the winners of Palm they would have enough effort to scrape up a new ecosystem. They would also have a noticable third-party support, a footing in the North America market and stand against Apple's litigation with ease.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Kangal, I don't think that what you were outlining was probable, however. (Did you mean possible?) Let's talk probable outcomes, though...

You say they were ABLE to make alterations, but their own engineers pointed out that they weren't able to--and, in fact, Qualcomm (designer of the architecture they ended up using) was able to run Android far better on that same hardware. I'm not sure how you got that impression when HP engineers themselves didn't have that opinion. That bodes far better for Android than it does for WebOS, in terms of adaptability... and the myriad of hardware able to run Android already proved that well before. HP is hardly a stranger to writing or adapting operating systems, however. They still own HP-UX, Tru64, OpenVMS, NonStop, HP RTE (Run-Time Executive), HP MIE (Mobile Internet Experience), HP MPE (Multi-Programming Executive), and so on and so on in addition to supporting Linux, Microsoft's Windows, and have been supporting these products for many, many years before they bought WebOS and even continue to code for and support most of these operating systems in JUST the items that I listed. I think you forgot that you were talking about HEWLETT-PACKARD... not Palm. WebOS was hardly top-notch when it was riddled with glitches and exploits--some of them JUST from web-based HTML5 exploits. Again, the engineers who worked on it THEMSELVES admitted as much. It was STILL a work-in-progress that was shoved out the door very quickly and in need of much tender loving care from engineers and its own community. HP failed to understand that and made several fatal missteps along the way. I still think it's salvageable, but that window is closing VERY rapidly.

BUT--in no way can Nokia help themselves by simply acquiring it. Nokia already had a perfectly fine set of operating systems and through inaction and ineptitude allowed much of it to die off. WebOS would not have helped what they were already doing badly--even the Palm division executives weren't doing very well to push their own platform so you couldn't have even hoped that changing executives through such an acquisition would improve anything. The ecosystem in both was also a failure--ovistore isn't popular--very few people actually LIKED it even amongst the N900 owners themselves (everybody remember ANGRY MAN being pitched in lieu of the actual good, new content people really wanted?), nor was WebOS's app shop.

I sincerely think that what Nokia should have done was to put more effort into supporting what they ALREADY had, LISTEN to customers/engineers/developers, and ADVERTISE their products cleverly. They did NONE of that and to pretend that they can fix it all by just slapping Windows Phone 7 on there is to continue to neglect those obvious points. The ecosystem will continue to be irrelevant so long as said ecosystem is STILL run by Nokia in the way Nokia has been running it all along.

We know Microsoft has already burned bridges in the past with customers, salespeople and vendors. This is already a shaky start. This is like combining two disgusting flavors that taste even more repulsive together--it's like the most repulsive KIT-KAT bar you can imagine made from bodily wastes. So if we're to look at where they are now and the current direction--nothing with regard to a WebOS acquisition can save them now.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Damn you, that was my favorite choc bar.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

LMAO at recent comments.

While I agree with you (Dan) on several fronts, my idea hasn't changed.

The fact is Nokia either had:
-bad executives
-bad developers
-both.

The deal with Microsoft actually fixes those mistakes, and helps get an actual product out to customers.

How could Nokia have success with MeeGo?
It would have to fix those problems, both are difficult and completely separate tasks. It's like discovering termites in your foundation of the house.
Do you add more foundations?
Do you build a new foundation while demolishing the old?
Do you simply spray poison and pray it works?
Do you destroy the entire house and start again?

Nokia was in a very delicate situation midyear last year, and they chose the "spray poison" option and after realizing the termites didn't die, they chose to not spend any money fixing it but to scrap the house and build a new one.

My notion with acquiring Palm at April 2010, is in conjunction with adding more foundations. Because that option is the SMARTEST option because it allows you to do several other things like "spray poison" (let Intel continue baking the software) and also gradually remove the old foundations (getting rid of bad executives, developers, designers, code like Python). Nokia could've released WebOS devices with Qt support. Then later build up on that with a much more powerful base (kernel, features, no bugs) trully merging the Moblin into the WebOS and Qt. They'd call it MeeGo 2.0, non-different to Samsung's Bada 2.0 or Symbian Belle. And by that time, there would be an amountable Qt applications that would readily be available.
This is the big picture I am trying to paint, and no it is very probable had Nokia taken the correct (obvious) decisions.

edit: No, their decision did fix it. They scrapped the house and built/building a new one. There is no pissing involved. However, the new house may reek of the smell of Elopiss. Just being literal ;)

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Except now they switched from spraying ant poison to just pissing all over the house instead--it's clearly ineffective already, as Windows Phone 7 has already proven itself as a dud. They didn't FIX anything with this.

As for the probability, it's pointless to speculate because we're already past the middle of 2011... not anywhere near that comparatively hopeful era of 2010 before Elop boarded the Nokia craft to pilot the damn ship into the rocky shores with a Kin branded albatross Angry Birds doll around his neck.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

I'd say they just burned the first house before even starting the new one, and now winter is comming...

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

I am in a lookout for a tablet as well. MeeGo one would certainly be number one choice if there was a good one.. as it turns out, there isn't really even bad one. :( Other option would have been the HP touchpad, but seems like I missed that frenzy. iPad just seems too closed and somehow Android doesn't feel right. Although haven't tried these 3.x models, so my judgment is purely based on 2.1 phone! :)

Anyways, seems rather pointless to wait for MeeGo ones, if there's none published so far, unlikely any would be released within next 6 months. Guess I'll just have to keep an eye on them touchpads on ebay.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Just from a curious user point of view: what would be the advantage of a Meego tablet over - say - an Ubuntu tablet?
Lighter linux backbone?
Userland apps optimized for tablet use?
Or there is something I don't see?

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Focus. Ubuntu has no good touch UI, nor does any of the software that it comes with by default have decent touch interfaces.

MeeGo is heavily focused around touch as a means of interacting with the system. And with a tablet, attempting to poke tiny UI elements intended for use with a mouse, is an exercise in frustration.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Is it feasable to build cordia on top of debian/ubuntu/fedora/gentoo.

So far both gnome and kde are missing effective solution for mobile ui.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

a beautiful UI is needed only for the technologically challenged...

for people who want to get work done (most of us here), what actually matters is the applications that matter. i.e. functional browser, fully capable office software, productivity tools, a robust core, strong media consumption softwares, etc....

the reason why debian, or any other distribution is a no-go for 90% of users, is because the openoffice or libreoffice cannot even handle a fully featured .docx properly......

People dont use a OS for marveling at an UI saying "my precious" whole day... some people got things to do.... (the whole reason, why people still stick to Windows)

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

.

.
.
and thats why i loved Maemo. Despite having slightly lacking here and there, it had features that "could have been exploited" to bring out the best for productivity on a mobile device.... (e.g. koffice, or telepathy for SIP integration, or fcam)

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Sure. Smoku's primary development work for the UI has been done on top of either fedora or opensuse (not sure which.)

And yes they are missing solutions for the mobile UI.

I like to think of myself as technologically adept, but I do like a UI that behaves responsively and with nice effects.

Sure. But all work and no play...

Of course they can't. Only Microsoft can fully implement .docx, something which was done deliberately by MS during their ramming it through ISO.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

You might try the Dreambook W7. It currently ships with Android 2.x, but you can put MeeGo on it using the work thus far (not for end users) of the Cordia project.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

People who 'want to get work done' aren't buying tablets.

Tablets are a toy and a ridiculous fad. Which is why the iPad is the only tablet that successfully sells -- it's a beautiful toy gadget with a toy OS running on toy hardware with a business model that was based on the practices of the game console industry.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Let me tell you... I bought a BUNCH of tablets for work...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-T0VXy3hOD5...appy_Pills.jpg

They're clearly not doing me any good. ;)

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Here are some things:

http://www.evolvethree.com.au/products/maestro-s.html
http://indamixx.com/indamixx-marketplace-3.html

Not sure if they're running proper MeeGo, but I suppose (FOSS) beggars can't be choosers

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Beggars can choose to buy from reputable manufacturers. I've never heard of either of these folks.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

Funny sh it right there.

Gerbick, since when did you get a XOOM?
I know the Atrix is actually one of the best devices out there, but a XOOM?!? Why not the $99 Touchpad, Cheap GalaxyTab, Multitalented Transformer, Pristine PlayBook, or iPad2 (if you want the fart apps).

I think the first device Nokia should've released MeeGo on should've been a 7" tablet like the PlayBook but only for developers. Then it would be easy to restructure the development into 4" devices, and larger 10" devices.

Re: Where are all the MeeGo tablets?
 

I never said anything about them being reputable or not. But those are open source (kinda) tablets, and that's (kinda) what this thread is about. But for those out there that require a FOSS tablet, dem pickins is slim