Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

So, for how long will this moving the goalposts game last exactly? I'm willing to bet my unicorn N9 that once the W8/WP8 is out and has some glaring omissions that makes it uncompetitive (and WP will still depend on Zune despite the touted 'integration'), the cry will be: but wait for WP8.5, Microsoft is already working on those... Sure, Microsoft has a lump of cash that can make this game perpetual, but Nokia (and anyone else who bases their business around it) will go under the ice in the process - and there still will be people crying "... just wait, the next thing is gonna be AWESOME!"

As gerbick said, the game is exactly as with Maemo before, with one tiny difference - Maemo at least delivered from time to time, it just lacked some polish; WP has the polish, but not much else to it.

What gives you the reason to be so optimistic about the WP? If Microsoft, as one of the largest software companies, is moving this slowly and repeating the same mistakes - that Google, and even Apple overtake them every step of the way, how can one realistically expect for that system to succeed, be the next big thing or whatever? Having enough cash to sustain you for quite long on your road to irrelevance does not a good system make.


While I agree with most of what you've said, what makes the WP7 a 'major OS'? Apart from cash burning to keep the impression of its relevance in the public, much like the tactics Microsoft used in their vain attempt to push out the Flash from the web and replace it with their Silverlight - it's everything but a `major OS`. FFS, even that half-assed attempt from Samsung called Bada beats it in the 'majority' department, not to mention the archaic BBOS and the 'burning' Symbian. The would-be third elopsystem is at best the sixth one, with a tendency of a downfall. Talk about 'burning platforms' - this one is already in ashes, and I see no phoenix on the horizon to rise from those ashes...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Guys people want WP they just don't know it. That's why Microsoft will try to force it down everyones throat I bet they will give out a nokia Lumia whatever for free with every Windows 8 license and then announce they have now captured 2,7% of the market.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I think you guys should get out of your shoes for once and try to look at the world with non-geek eyes. Normal people actually think that iPhone is the best, followed by Android. Normal people now think, after more than a year being laughed at by everyone, that Symbian is crap. Normal people now see the ads about Lumia and that little big name in the ads, "Microsoft", and think it's wow. We geeks know that WP7 still lacks a shitload of functionalities, that it's as close as iOS, and all the other shortcomings, normal people don't and just remain impressed by the UI and the "Microsoft" brand behind it. Moreover, a lot of devs are turning to this OS.
It certainly had a very slow start, but it's about to spring, imo. It certainly is better than Bada, not in the numbers (Bada sold much more because it's on cheap phones) but in quality, potential (= devs in the ecosystem) and future updates.
This is my view, I might be wrong, but for sure normal people, who are 99% out there, don't know **** about Maemo, Harmattan or other stuff, and have been brainwashed into thinking that Symbian stinks. So yeah, WP7 is the third of the 3 major OSes.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Thats an overstatement to say that people hate symbian. In order to hate it they have to know what it is, American people have no idea what symbian is. We can definitely say that the MNO in us hate symbian, Att or tmo hasnt had a symbian phone for years beside e71x.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I love it when this argument comes up People know microst but exactly how many people like microsoft???. What do you think it's the first thing that comes to mind when an avarage user hears the word windows ??? Virus, crashes, reformatting etc. And what is the first thing that comes to mind when an avarage user when IE comes up? Even more crashes and viruses. Just by naming microsoft has killed it's project.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

that's from Pogue...
incompetent ***** who is convinced Apple invented the computer and the mobile phone... and everything else in between

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Look at other parts of the world where Nokia is stronger, not USA of course. Normal people dont know what is Symbian, they know Nokia, they know they own a Nokia phone.
When they buy a Lumia, they get pissed that this 'new model' doesnt have SD Card, USB mass storage(+bluetooth for the 800) and stuck to Zune. Their old cheaper Nokia phones had all of those, how can this be an upgrade they say....;);)

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Got to agree here. For the best part of the last 10yrs Windows has been the largest brand to ever grace the mobile phone, and yet nobody cared. Granted there were us early smartphone users who enjoyed winCE/Mo devices but for the average person these were just as confusing as their PC.

This confusion does not have to be with technical aspects of their phones either. How many times has MS rebranded their Search engine, Mobile OS, Online service or even the Xbox dashboard? The frequent rebranding also adds a mistrust to it as new users cannot grow a familiarity with the product compounding to the stigma Zoxir talks about.


This has got me thinking... IF windows8 on PC fails, MS will want to re-image themselves yet again, changing the Mobile OS with it.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Been thinking the same thing, actually. Too much time, money and effort has been put behind the Metro UI and not everybody is sold - vendors especially.

As an user, I'm not 100% sold on Metro. Nothing is wrong with it, but it doesn't exactly answer a lot of Windows issues with UI/UX. It introduces new problems in the name using bigger type and tiles.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

If WP8 fails microsoft will be on the track to being irrelevant and only a miracle will save them especially with desktop and laptop becoming irrelevant themselves. Nokia made a horrible horrible bet when they chose MS.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

That is yet to be seen. The doomsdayers here should remember how apple came to the brink of bankruptcy and dissolution, and rose up again. Ordinary people, as someone said above, think of a device that will give them smooth, reliable, day and nite device. Maemo and Meego are far short from that. 99% of the population could care less what the OS is, as LONG AS THE EXPERIENCE IS SMOOTH AND RELIABLE!!!!!!. Lumia 800 and 900 deliver that. I think that NOKIA will do OK.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

tell me why android can be so success event with buggy system inside them? :D

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Come on, its much less buggy than N900 or N9. You know that.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

are you sure? but i dont see any reason to switch to wp atm, its a total downgrade, :)

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Weren't you talking about Android? How did WP7 creep into your comparison?

Stick with one point at a time man.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

android is better experience rather than windows phone, thats my point, and harmattan is greatest one till date

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Yeah, maybe normal people's thoughts fly to the many viruses they caught while using their PCs, when they read "Microsoft", but they know it's their fault and that there are antivirus programs. Switching point of view, what comes to people's mind when they hear Linux? Nothing, for the majority, and "hell no!!! That weird geek stuff where you can't even install programs with a simple double click" for many others, me included (I'm very experienced with Windows and tech-products but hey, isn't it ridiculous that I couldn't easily install nvidia drivers on my laptop, using Ubuntu (supposedly the most user friendly of all Linux distros)?
Anyway, just wanted to say that in most people's mind Microsoft Windows == computers, they don't consider anything else.

With regard to downgrade from older Nokias, when buyinv a WP7, not true: as someone said above, people look first and foremost for a smooth phone. Secondly, they open the market and download few apps like Whatsapp. And they're happy. Sad, but true. I thought the same as you guys some time ago, but then I realized that the majority of people still goes around with a mp3 player and don't need a SD card; barely anyone uses BT transfer, so they don't care it's close; and so on. Besides, iPhone doesn't have all these and none of the normal people seem to care, so it has become the standard.
Finally, I read many forums and noticed that most of the people who switch to WP7 from Android are happy and like it better, to my great surprise. I myself owned a LG Optimus 7 for some time and I certainly like WP7 more than Android (had a LG Optimus 2X), for it's more polished, smooth, consistent in the UI (one of the biggest problems in Android: it's ****in ugly) and the shortcomings are minor and you can definitely live with that. I'm not a super geek so I didn't miss devel-su and other stuff therr, but I can say that normal daily usage does not require any of the features that WP7 doesn't already pack.
That's why maggots do and will like it, and imo it will grow in the future.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Usually I stay away from this threads, however ...

@Etchelon - you are talking about US, ain't? As here in Europe the situation is much different, leaving aside Asia. Microsoft and Windows in whatever shape is not welcome outside offices. Mass storage, sd cards, BT transfer, all this stuff you say is not used (but of course, how to use something your device is not capable of, think iphone), is actually used often enough so its lack to be a dealbreaker.

Sometimes I am really impressed how some of the US guys think the only continent on the Earth is North America :) .

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I like Windows more than android. Still don't using my Windows Phone as first or second device. Reason? Still not good enough. For example, formfactor is the greatest advantage of android. It's not the OS itself, and it's the flooded market. I want a mini phone och mega screen phone and a qwerty-hardware phone and that is only android phones available in theses segment. It's sad.

Edit: and soon a projection phone ;)

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

You could wait for my reply before boldly writing your last statement :)
I'm Italian, and the situation here is as I described. It's all related to the level of culture of the population. Low culture == dumb people == people don't care about Linux, Harmattan or SD cards.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

there is the $$$ too...
ppl realize they spend a fortune and get... nothing
where, indeed, malware comes in...
(FYI, even LostDOS comes with a basic anti-virus, nowadays...)
and GNU / Linux seems a very attractive alternative, where (nearly) everything is free and there is broad community support (free, as well)

and then ppl hear about wp, be it with or without a NOKIA logo, hear the horrific story of ppl who have to use such devices from their work (or decided to get one) and think... why should i trap myself into this again?
they may not be geeks, but they are not that ignorant (or blind)

GNU / Linux is certainly the last thing a (dumb) iPotato user would think about. actually, even not so dumb iPotato user are strongly discouraged to thing that :cool: :D
but indeed, most ANDroid users don't even know what GNU / Linux is, leave alone what it stands for...
they simply grab all the (free) apps :rolleyes:

see above...
when ppl think m$, they think... awwwww
if they think @ all >¦-)

next time, get some facts into your trolling, maybe?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Well, sorry for calling you US guy then :p. Anyway, I don't think here in Bulgaria the mass is better than in Italy, yet my statements remain valid.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Trolling because...you don't like what I say? Or maybe you mean something else? If so, try to use words other than "trolling" to explain that, the english language is thousand years old and "trolling" was invented only a couple of years ago.

And, what facts do I need to add? I just illustrated my point of view. Is it required by the forum rules to stuff tons of facts in every post you make? Do I need to reference a random scientific study about "people and their OS of choice" for you to consider what I'm saying? I mean, it's just my thoughts. You can reply if you feel like, or you can ignore it if it's not worth an answer of yours. Just don't call it "trolling".

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

making a generic undocumented statement along the line of "ppl like m$" in a forum dedicated primarily to a open source platform.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

AFAIK this is maemo.org not windowsphone.org ;)

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

for an Italian you have surprisingly little national pride, don't you?
have you ever been in the country?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Ubuntu the most user friendly... <snickering> Yeah sure, with such world class QA, almost nothing bad could happen to the clueless!

But i rather have to invest 5h to compile, install & configure something in Linux than spending months pressing teeth together because i can't change, adapt to my workflow or fix something in Windows.

My opinion: just use the right tool for a job. I use Win7 x64 and Arch Linux + aptosid at home. Each to his own.

And both of you should agree to disagree, IMHO.

PS.: using terms like M$ and LostDOS is sooo stuck in 2000.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

If the fact that we're on maemo.org means to you that I should not talk in favor of Microsoft's software, well, you're quite narrow minded.

I hate my country and plan to move abroad, is that enough for you? :)

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

thats enough to explain everything, :rolleyes:

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Yet another buzzword I often see touted in response to its drawbacks, "Smooth".

If people only wanted a smooth and reliable phone they would buy a cheap feature phone. A smartphone is about more than just smooth and reliable it's about the phone being able to adapt to the needs you thought you would never want until the need arises. Lack of features becomes a major stumbling block.
Granted the iPhone was also initially lacklustre in features too but that built on the buzz of the ipods of the time, people essentially wanted an iPod with phone capabilities. WP has no such thing to replace and it will never gain ground being behind in features, apps or specs. I don't think its debatable "smoothness" is much of a selling point.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Please take note that I did mention, outside USA, perhaps I should have added, western countries . I'm from Asia. And heck, people still use SD cards, USB on the go, bluetooth, due to the expensive internet data rates. I use them almost everyday, try to avoid transfering files thru internet, which is added cost, and.... slow, esp if large files. If one needs to get home to transfer something, might as well use the thumb drive.

The example I related are real complaints from users in my country, some on Nokia FB page(not sure if deleted by now), some in Nokia Support Discussion

This kinda stuff is something that those from developed countries would not fully understand, unless & until you all experience it yourselves. ;);)

Look at the countries where Iphone is not top on the graph.

And btw, this is Maemo forum, so naturally people who prefer open source or customization or non restricted OS would be here. If I go to a Windows Phone page or forum & talk bad abt WP, they can and will tell me to get lost. It's the same over at GSM Arena, My nokia Blog, or anywhere over the internet

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

intermilan stadium and its on their home, are you still wanna use ur juventus uniform and yelling at inter fans tribun? i call it suicide, :D

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

You talk like people share files using SD card slots on their smartphones everytime they meet.
And to be honest I think that if people in emergent countries had the money they would be happy to sacrifice SD slots and BT transfer in exchange for an iPhone. Anyway different needs call for different products, as you say.

This is why I tried to discuss my point of view: I was hoping for a different reaction from people who are smart enough to use Linux and other "elite" tools, but it seems that I was wrong and someone actually behaves like those fanboys by ditching my thoughts as "trolling".
What annoys me the most is that I use MeeGo, I like it much more than all other OSes (never had iOS though) and I was just saying WP7 is gonna do good...and get laughed at (with people questioning my nationality, it's ridiculous) because seems like it's a blasphemy.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Good to see that you think and act like those monkeys at the stadium who stab each other after a game.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

The thread is specifically about Windows phones. Hence any opinions should be welcome. People dont care how open phone is, people dont want a phone that will have a seizure, reboot often, not being able to lock GPS fast enough, not mix conversation threads, have easy keyboards, adjustable fonts so that grannys can read on size 18 font, and screen resolution that makes reading crystal clear and camera that will give them nice pics.

That is what 99% of the people like. And NOKIA needs to pay bills, so it needs to cater to 99%. The less than 1% that wants open phone, and ability to tinker should be happy that NOKIA gave them the devices it did. Tinker away and dont complain. Unfortunately N9 and n900 have problems. They cant please 99% of the population when competition offers a better product for the 99%.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

desktop becoming irrelevant? lol, what is replacing it? those "tablets" that cant actually do anything?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

some guys entering wrong forum. Wrong man at the wrong place. LoL

send it from my n9 thats never lagging. No random reboot. And hey its super smooth. :D

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

No, that's okay. I'll leave the looking hard in the mirror to you, raging fanboi. :P I'm not sure that clearly identifying the problem with MS's platform is equitable with hate, either. heh Good try at a dismissal, though.

http://pleco.org/heh/windows1-to-windows8.jpg


Could it be that openness of the platform helped? I mean--ACTUAL openness that lets manufacturers adopt a platform (unlike the way Maemo and MeeGo was handled).

Also...
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0...q1pjo1_500.gif

These days, what difference does that make? Maemo is gone, man.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Once again, your...bias is showing, the western perception of those in Asia & developing countries. Dont think people in developing countries no have money. If we can afford a 64GB N9 or Samsung S2, Galaxy Note, BB 9900,or those high end devices, we can afford Iphone.Money is not the main reason

What if no internet line at the location? or EDGE speed. The other aspect would more freedom for customization, which Android has, which Symbian has, and to a certain extent N9 has.

Iphone-> restricted. Windows Phone-> restricted.
Over here, those who didnt get the Iphone high possibility will not get the Windows Phone. Long time Nokia users, who are still with Nokia all these rocky years, higher possibility/percentage will cross over to the Android.

How many years has Windows Phone been in the market? Its market share still not touch 3%, wasnt it Bada has higher market share?

The funniest thing, after Lumia 800 came out, now, the 1st question when someone wants to buy a new Nokia, "Does it have bluetooth?". A question previously need not be asked, standard feature in Nokia & assumed to have:p

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Just pouring some gasoline on the fire here:
http://winphone7news.blogspot.com/20...ows-phone.html

but daaaamn, with all iPhones/Samsungs going for the dull rectangle shape this thing could put Nokia back in play with stylish design (also no need to carry your digicam with you on vacation, though this hits the wrong companies)