maemo.org - Talk - New Council elected! May 2012

yep. In reality Rob has been in a really awkward position since he has been the only active council member for quite some time now. As I see it, it takes real dedication to run again. Let's hope we'll see a more active council this time around.

Estel

2012-04-25 16:12

Re: Council election

To be honest, arguments that someone is "less" <whatever> cause there was no voting, when she/he become a Council member, is pure sophism. First of all, it's not candidate fault, that she/he was only one/amonsgt few willing to volunteer.

Second - if someone thing it's bad to not have votes, why not to propose change, that require votes every time? For now, we have some rules, and bi****ng about them being respected is out of line.

Third, it was used mainly by people, who were not able to find better "arguments" against meritum stated by SD69 - AFAIK, this infamous practice was started by former Nokia contact with Community (Marias), which makes me even more sad that it ever happened.

Anyway, it's all the past - pity, that it touched person so active in volunteering for Community - I hope that we're not to hear anything like that in future :) Also, I'm pretty sure, that this time we will have votes, and number of them dedicated to SD69 will be true overkill ;)

/Estel

misterc

2012-04-25 19:21

Re: Council election

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1197283)

A few people criticized some of my efforts and pointed out that there was no vote either time I became a council member. I know, silly, but there it is and I appreciate those who support(ed) my efforts. Getting consensus in maemo is hard enough as it is so I'd like to be free of that particular thing.

Of course, the things you mention are more important. I'll accept my nomination with thanks and post a formal statement on the wiki page in a few days.

Rob,

with power / authority comes dissension.
autocrats deal with it ruthlessly (work camps and the like) and the members of the Council... need thick skin ;)
just because some didn't agree with the direction the community was going (or wasn't going :confused:) there are also a lot of trolls; most of the time their posts are obvious, sometimes more subtle, making you doubt of yourself or @ least of your actions.

however, you kept Maemo alive with your sheer will and made sure that the community continues to exist towards NOKIA
for that alone, you deserve the gratitude of the community :)
thanks!

i appreciate that after quite some time you feel like passing over the scepter.
i assume you would still remain in the community? maybe the new Council could ask for your advice (possibly by e-mail rather then on TMO) if they get confronted with a problem they can't handle?

the decision is yours, but either way the Community owes you!

szopin

2012-04-30 20:07

Re: Council election

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1195568)

Qgil stated clearly that any more code will not be opened. And maybe there is no need to. After the time it will take either to raise the funds and close a deal with Nokia (assuming that is ever possible) or to reverse engineer the drivers for the N900, most of the N900's will be dead and the device itself will be pretty much obsolete. So we might just as well code new drivers for a device of our choice. What's the most open device out there? How much blobs can we scavenge from the android kernel to work unmodified?

Other than drivers do we really need anything else opensourced to go along? Of course the more code is open the better, but the most valuable of programs are open or we have nice open alternatives, the drivers are at least redistributable so the things that remain closed are device specific like mce etc. They won't do us any good in the long term anyway...

We do have a mail client, application manager, browser, telepathy, phone client (from meego), camera app, text editor, office suite, file manager media player.
We are missing a calendar (maybe free, alternatives exist, it's just a calendar after all) messaging application, gallery and all those IIRC exist on meego, so it's a matter of porting.

So much for the user applications.

Now for the core, we lack drivers, mce, battery management and more. But I don't know how much effort we should put in those as they may be have to be developed again if we ever move to a new device (in some time it has to happen)

This is I believe misunderstanding when it comes to view on source. Open-source projects do not die. Sooner or later (having the source open) there will be enthusiast or a group of such that will have a go at the code. Drivers are the limiting factor. It's cool some suggest the money would be better spent at 100% open device, but we know results of such endeavours. Very much disappointing/lacking. Having a fully working (at N900 level at least) stack would be something worth focusing energy/money on. Having all those: we're gonna bring you heaven by different approach projects that fail sooner or later gives us nothing. Freemantle (or bought up mantle) could result in cool things. Would be a matter of reverse engineering drivers for one device that is most open, most cool at the time. Now we have to do all reveng for all devices/drivers or pray. Porting open component would be just a recompile.

szopin

2012-04-30 20:16

Re: Council election

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1195792)

szopin, don't You realize that all "let's buy it from Nokia or hire people to reverse engineer it" ideas are so expensive, that it's cheaper to design our own, 100% open device from scratch (with possibility of using existing open or mostly open devices as implementation references).

BTW, starting with less than 1GB of RAM is not worth the effort - seriously. Yet, it is totally off-topic here.

/Estel

It may be cheaper, but also totally fail for now. So while you might put 1$ at failed program, it is not an argument, tell me of a succesfull reveng program and how much it cost. With fully open base costs should decrease dramatically. Your argument is: it is so costly, noone ever done it, so lets build a device from scratch, which accidentaly also was never achieved by anyone in a satisfactory fashion... how can you compare price???

szopin

2012-04-30 20:21

Re: Council election

Quote:

Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1196005)

all this hardware seeking is exactly why i think NOKIA is Maemo's only chance
traditional GNU/Linux distros don't have that problem as they are running on a standard PC, as they are sold by 100s of thousands every day.
even a small project like Trinity Desktop Environment (the continuation of KDE 3.5.10 since KDE upgraded to KDE 4) can survive, only with one dedicated coordinator, a bunch of ppl helping directly and the open source community contributing... they know for 100% sure TDE will run on a standard PC, even with proprietary video card, as long as they remain in line with the x86 / x86_64 architecture.
this simply does not exist for mobiles or Internet Tablets, alas.
thus the dependance upon a manufacturer, in Maemo's case NOKIA.
for the better or the worse :eek:

Which is exactly why opensourcing maemo code could change a few things. Once we get ARM (with erratas) working, all future processors are a go (or is ARM going anywhere?). Sure drivers are the limiting factor, but once they are the ONLY limiting factor maemo on any hardware can be a reality. Things in mobile world do not change from atari to amiga to pc all the time. Tegras etc will be a problem, still paying for reveng of drivers would be much less costly than expecting whole system on each and every device (also upstream all reveng'es to linux kernel and more people will join this community, no?)

nieldk

2012-04-30 20:44

Re: Council election

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arie (Post 1197127)

I am the only heavy Harmattan user that is a council candidate, we need a voice in the council.

Filled out my responses to community posed questions:
http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Coun...e_declarations

no, youre not ;) Iam a heavy Harmattan user (and dev) aswell, but agree, either way we need Harmattan voices in the council.
Filled out my responses on the Wiki also, but mainly we need representatiion of Harmattan. AND better involvement in the community by Nokia. Which I strongly believe is possible, given the right communication links (I do have some ideas on where to go and ask)

Estel

2012-04-30 21:30

Re: Council election

Quote:

Originally Posted by szopin (Post 1199685)

To be honest, I don't see any sensible argument, why creating device from scratch should be more fail, compared to Your ideas. At least, we have some predecessors (Open Pandora, Raspberry Pi, etc), while no one *ever* 100% reverse-engineered device like N900.

If, by some unbelievable miracle, You would have enough money to buy/reverse-engineer/whatever way open N900 "Stack" fully, it would be much better spent creating new device, running mainstream debian, archlinuxor whatsnot. For that money, probably 2 or 3 of them, in straight line ;)

You're saying that developing own device is "we will bring You heaven" - to be honest, IMO ideas of fully opening N900/N9/whatever proprietary device You have in hand are even more unrealistic - basically, it just *won't* happen, ever. Probably, no matter how much time/money You spent on it.

don't get me wrong - as You probably noticed, I love N900. Yet, projects like CSSU/kernel-power are best we can achieve. There is no feasible way to go through/around closed hardware-specific bits. Ask any developer with brain and common sense. Period.

/Estel

szopin

2012-04-30 21:42

Re: Council election

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1199719)

Exactly. You're comparing failed (maybe not PI, lets give it some time to mature) projects vs never reached open-source maemo at any stage. Sure go for Nemo or Openmoko, see how this is fruitless? With Fremantle you got _everything_ working, not 65% +/- one component or two...

Quote:

If, by some unbelievable miracle, You would have enough money to buy/reverse-engineer/whatever way open N900 "Stack" fully, it would be much better spent creating new device, running mainstream debian, archlinuxor whatsnot. For that money, probably 2 or 3 of them, in straight line ;)

Why not both? Once you got control (source) of maemo you can go whichever way you wish (more debian? why not, arch? your decision) How about you come up with amount you need to provide us two working/cool devices??? I bet with 1/10th of the cost we can come up with new chinese stars of reverse engineering to open up the rest (that is needed for FREEmantle at least), they are still cheap while VERY productive.

Quote:

You're saying that developing own device is "we will bring You heaven" - to be honest, IMO ideas of fully opening N900/N9/whatever proprietary device You have in hand are even more unrealistic - basically, it just *won't* happen, ever. Probably, no matter how much time/money You spent on it.

don't get me wrong - as You probably noticed, I love N900. Yet, projects like CSSU/kernel-power are best we can achieve. There is no feasible way to go through/around closed hardware-specific bits. Ask any developer with brain and common sense. Period.

/Estel

Thinking oldways. Think in new ways, open your mind for real possibilities. Don't claim failed projects banish all open thinking, they failed for their own reasons. This is what we need in council, oppenness for new ideas as old gave us fu..hit.

All times are GMT. The time now is 13:08.

Page 30 of 43

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

vBulletin® Version 3.8.8