New Council elected! May 2012 - November 2012
 

New Council have been elected! Thanks a lot for all participants - Community voting, candidates and, finally, new Councilors!

Results:
http://maemo.org/vote/results.php?election_id=20

Check if Your vote have been counted correctly:
http://maemo.org/vote/votes.php?election_id=20

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Council Election is running already - for 7 days, from 16th to 23th May, all Community Members meeting voting criteria, can vote for candidates.

If You're sure that You meet criteria, yet, You haven't received invitation to vote into Your mail account (registered in maemo.org), please contact X-Fade immediately. In any case, feel free to ask for help in this thread.

Links You may consider worth checking:
http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Coun...e_declarations
http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Coun...tion_Q1/2_2012
http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council

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As You may be already aware or not, it's last bell for nominations for another Council election.

Despite common opinions, Council doesn't have any "special tools". Really. The only difference from regular users that Council members have, is community mandate to talk with Nokia at Community behalf, and respect'n'trust - or lack of - from Community, that helps (or not, in second case) to coordinate projects, find solutions, settle small argues etc.

To do this effectively, Council really need as strong mandate as it may have - especially, considering Nokia's rude behavior (during last meeting with Council, they tried to disregard Council mandate, due to it being "self nominated", as they said - without election).

Having real voting really helps and motivates - seriously. This is where I ask personally - please, nominate Yourself, if You feel that You can contribute to Maemo. Don't worry about "not much free time" - no one here need to dedicated full worktime, it volunteer job ;) I also feel - everytime when voting period comes - that I got much less time, that I should for work as Council member. Yet, contributing with what You can do is better than not contributing at all.

/Estel

// Edit

Best way to nominate is mail to maemo-community@maemo.org You can nominate Yourself or someone other (in second case, nominated person must also accept it in mail to mailing list).

For now, only SD69 and I were nominated. We need at least 2 other people, to have real voting, and 3 to get full 5-people Council.

// Edit 2

If You hate using mailing list as much as I do, I may forward Your nominations - yet, nominated people must accept it themselves via mailing list. That's life - despite being irritating, using mailing list isn't hard, and council members will use it to Communicate with at least few people/parties.

Re: Council election
 

OK, as you insist, count with me. I already volunteered to Supertesters but up to now nothing has been done due to Nokia not responding at all.

Re: Council election
 

Personally I'm a little concerned at the talk on the mailing list about forking the community to a new website. When people ask where it was discussed/proposed the response seems to be not in this thread with no pointer for another thread.

After Estel's above comment about "Harmatrash", if there was an election I'd be tempted to vote for the council to be dissolved rather than these people be seen to represent me.

Maybe if there aren't enough nominations for an election, there should be one anyway, with "dissolve the council" as an option?

Re: Council election
 

First things first - I'm not a Council member (yet?). If You don't want me to represent Maemo community, vote for another candidate, or nominate someone else (and ensure that she/he will accept nomination). Nevertheless, I've deleted this comment, to not scary away those of faint heart ;)

As for Your second question, the answer is simple - no. Council election rules are quite clear - Council members are elected via vote, and if 3 or less people are nominated, it's considered a consensus, and all 3 passes.

Personally, I would like to have good old fashioned voting.
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ivgalvez, nice to hear that. Please, send a mail to mailing list, with Your wish to candidate, ok?

/Estel

Re: Council election
 

In real politics, every time someone says "we need a strong mandate" I tend to believe that what we actually need is "strong transparency". Coincidence or not, this is also what I think is the situation here and now.

Rude behavior from Nokia? As far as I'm aware Nokia is paying the maintenance bills of maemo.org (and http://apps.formeego.org ) asking... (what?) in exchange. We are happy this community exists and we are happy helping it to find its path onto the future.

When the Council was created we had reasons to keep some managed discussions in private. Cases that come to mind were invitations to an event where Maemo announces were planned, a couple of controversial apps that needed to be pulled from Maemo Downloads, a quote for the MeeGo launch... and not much more, really. Most of the discussion happened directly and transparently here and in the maemo-community mailing list, between Council members and whoever else wanted to be involved.

Now... announcements are not Maemo related, individuals can publish apps to Nokia Store and Qt Developer Network and Nokia Developer have both developer communities with ambassadors and champions.

Does this mean that maemo.org is irrelevant? Not at all! There is something precious and unique here, and it would be good for everybody to find the way to update it and evolve it further.

Does this mean that the Maemo Community Council is irrelevant? I don't know the answer - but in any case I believe that transparency is more relevant. I'll do my best helping on transparency.

Re: Council election
 

I'm sorry, I missed your & SD69's nominations/candidacies on the mailing list (as the Council election rules quite clearly state). Could you paste the links, please?

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/

Following up on Jon's point, there's been talk of a "Plan B" and "maemocommunity.org" but requests for more information have been ignored.

There seems to have been a breakdown in communication between Nokia and the council (or certainly that appears to be the case to people like Estel and a breakdown in communication between the council and the community.

There have been zero posts to the Council blog - the official communication mechanism put in place after complaints here about a lack of transparency - despite numerous online meetings (and, one assumes, minutes/logs thereof) between the council & Nokia.

EDIT: To be clear, this isn't specifically pointed at Estel:

If there are candidates standing for election (AFAICT, there currently are not), my question to them would be: "do you agree there've been breakdowns in communication; and how do we fix it?" Give a good answer to that, and I'll vote for you. Don't... and I'll be rooting for someone else (and make sure a vote happens ;-))

Re: Council election
 

qgil - please check logs from last Council meeting. If Nokia's representative response to SD69 isn't rude, then find a better word for it.

As for rest of Your post - +1, but I would like to highlight, that AFAIK both Nokians and X-Fade is extremely unresponsive during last ~9 months. It took 6 months to make them even *investigate* why one of main Maemo projects - kernel power - can't be promoted properly in repositories... They were literally ignoring every form of communication, that is in scope of Council. Another 2 months to "fix" it, just to have problem re-appearing after single new version upload.


also, AFAIK, there was only 1 meeting between Council members and Nokians (correct me if I'm wrong) during last Council 6 months period, and even that one wasn't finished. SD69 tried to arrange follow-up meeting, yet, he don't get any response, no matter how hard trying.

Lets face it - Nokia *is* paying the bills, but it makes things even worse. When Nokia doesn't respect community (I talk about current state, so "history" isn't of much relevance here), even people that are paid by them doesn't give a s...ingle sign of "I care". Having bills paid isn't any win, if it makes Your hands tied, due to issues with repos, lack of communication with "our Nokia friends", inability to get definite answer even in simplest cases, or - what's even worse - opposite answers depending on who (assigned by Nokia) You're asking (see mess about passing Maemo trademark to community domain).

With all due respect, I think You aren't much involved in current events, if You don't consider it "rude". ruse is lightest word, that can be used here.
---

Despite fact, that all those things are very interesting and - sometimes - important, I would like to not have another "Future of Maemo" thread here - we got already plenty of them with many active participants (yet, when it comes to Council nominations, no one want to metamorphose words into action...).

If You, or anyone else feel that You could help Community - nominate Yourself! If You know someone that is capable, try to convince her/him to nominate. Great visions are OK, but I also hope for more people willing to do dirty, not-very-rewarding (currently) work.

/Estel

// Edit

Jaffa, You were faster ;) I agree that leaving out Council blog wasn't good idea. Yet, after every Council action, there was report in "Ask the Council" thread here on TMO, which was used as main communication channel, during last Council period. I agree, that it's quite messy, to jump from one communication channel to another.

Generally, there were not much to report - writing again and again about "I've tried to contact Nokians on channel x/y/z, waiting for their response...". "I've proposed meeting to Nokians 3 weeks ago, haven't good any response... Re-sending invitation..." "We've been ignored by X-Fade and Nokians for 4 months, sorry guys, can't report any progress on any issue"... Heck, they were not able to give us even basic numbers about bandwidth usage from Maemo infrastructure!

don't get me wrong - I don't accuse Council members (well, SD69 was doing most of dirty work, if not all of it) - they just *don't* have tools in current state of things. IMO, it's time to change that, with or without Nokia support (of course, i prefer first option).

So, if You ask about communication breakdown between Council and Nokia - yes, but definitely from Nokia side. As for breakdown between Council and Community - can't agree, yet I must admit that communication was quite messy (probably, due to frustrating state of things to report...).

Going back to transparency - yes, I agree that it's one of most important things, especially, when considering big changes. After all, no one is planning to do it for group of 5 (?) people, and without supporting Community behind, it's a no-go. From my side, You can be sure, that - if elected - I'll write with details about every thing happening. In fact, you can expect rather *too much* of informing, instead of too less ;) Yet, I can't promise that communication with Nokia will be re-estabilished, as it requires will from both parties.

In any case, I will be very cheerful, if You ensure that voting takes place ;)
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I'll do a quick-search for mine and SD69 nomination, updating this post after a while.

// edit
I was slower again - thanks for the link!

Re: Council election
 

Jaffa,

There were a couple of nominations on list:
http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...il/005019.html

I'm not convinced that this solves the real issue of transparency however.

Jon

Re: Council election
 

Indeed (emphasis added). If the Council don't like mailing lists, or can't commit to updating the blog the least they should do is post to the blog pointing to where they (i.e. SD69) are communicating. I'll point out that posting to the blog automatically creates a new thread on TMO in the Community forum, making it the best of both worlds. (I think it's bad form to reuse the same thread for so long, as the topics could vary so much)

A recent XKCD is relevant, including its tooltip:

Sure, Matti Airas doesn't seem to be involved in the community as much as Quim was. But that's because the community - unfortunately - is more stable, and he hasn't got the history in building it that Quim did. But that's where the council comes in: help rather than confront; communicate instead of stifle; empower rather than moan.

I think you touch on it here, though - and later in your reply:

Transparency about trying is important. As I've said since I came up with the idea of a community council - the concept is to facilitate others and enable people to do what they do best. If there was more light shone on the situation it would've been possible for folks like me & qgil to say to people "c'mon guys, there's supposed to be x FTE on this". Sure, that shouldn't be necessary - but what's more important, getting things done or being able to make a point when things have got even worse?

Similarly, transparency about actions within the community is important. "Plan B" and maemocommunity.org are both attempts to fork the community. There's been vitriol about the "success" of the N9 and Harmattan communities disrupting the vibe here (something that happened with the N8x0 and N900 when they were released as well); and spite about those who want to shut "maemo.org" down; and hints about conspiracies around formeego.org.

I think what this term, above all others, has shown is that being on the Council is hard. It is a responsibility and it is important to go that extra mile. "Continue doing what you're already doing" was a fine motto when we founded it and we had more candidates than positions. When there's a paucity of candidates, those who do form the council have a duty to live up to the expectations they've had in the past - not what they can fit in now.

Re: Council election
 

I think there are plenty that would run, but lack the qualifications. For example, despite lots of posts, testing, scripts, hacks, etc, my "karma" is still below the minimum required to run. (Mainly because I haven't done much on the wiki or started up any projects in the garage area.)

Personally, it sounds like the few people that are active are too busy doing other things. That, and Nokia hasn't exactly been in regular contact with us anyway. I think we still need a council, but unless they get some way to light a fire under someone on Nokia's side, it's a frustrating job. Is it any wonder people aren't stampeding to volunteer for it?

Re: Council election
 

woody, have You linked Your TMO account to garage page? It seems to me, that You should have enough karma just by thanks&posts.

/Estel

Re: Council election
 

Look, I know Matti and Niels personally. "Rude" and "not caring" are really adjectives that don't apply to them.

It hasn't been an easy time for these guys. They had to rely on others you don't see. Things are sorted out now.


It's true that I haven't been directly involved in maemo.org tasks - and that it's easy for me to talk now. I did try to help Matti & co when they were working hard to get a future to maemo.org beyond the deadlines given to the own MeeGo team at Nokia (I was part of).

But well, these days I'm syncing with Matti again and I will be following the Community forum & mailing list regularly.

Re: Council election
 

@Jaffa
Wise words. Some part, like:

...are much more easy to say than do - from my point of view, Matti Airas lately isn't involved *at all*, so it's quite hard to communicate, empower, etc, when You don't have partner to do so.

Yet, overall, I would agree. That's why I've written about "strong mandate" - if elected- I would like to (or at least, assist in, as there probably are going to be much more experienced people as council members, than me) - try every possible way of "straightening" Community/Nokia relations, and, if that fail, part ways without hostility from either side. I must add, that I don't consider second option is a loss in any way - there are just possibilities, so if point 1 (or "plan A") fail, we'll just head to "Plan B". I also ensure You, that in case of (even) such proposition, exact plan would be posted a long time before actual executing, open for Community to improve it. Heck, I'm sure, that this plan as a whole would consist of ideas got from Community on first place (even current drafts for it, found in "Ask the Council" thread, are based on community work).

/Estel

// Edit

Another time I saw Your response after posting mine. Of course, it's understandable that time was hard for "good" guys @ Nokia - I'm sure, that mess we've seen was just top of icy mountain.

I must admit, that sum of all events with Nokia created quite a hostility (which is, by the way, quite a achievement from Nokia (as a company) side - 180 degrees rotation, from thankful Community in the past, to current state... but it's not a good place to elaborate more on it), yet, if "those guys" are willing to collaborate, we can forget about former problems in less than ten CPU cycles ;) To be honest, it sounds to beautiful to be true - but, if so, that would be amongst best news in last months.

/Estel

Re: Council election
 

I'm not sure I had, and right now the site is being a bit less than useful. Can't seem to get even my basic profile page to load, yet alone edit it or add the link. I'll keep trying and see where that moves things.

Never noticed until now that you even had to do this. I guess most people don't much care about karma unless they're trying to do something that uses it? (Which is what exactly, outside of elections?)

Re: Council election
 

a big thanks for your support and comments here and previously in the thread. I also appreciate your nomination, although I haven't decided yet whether to accept it.

Re: Council election
 

So is it too late to put my name in the hat? I ask a lot of questions though...

Re: Council election
 

According to the rules nominations need to be posted to maemo-community@maemo.org in order to count.

Re: Council election
 

Actually, with fewer than 3 candidates an election cannot be held.

Re: Council election
 

Unsurprisingly, I'm with Quim on this topic. I have little to add to Quim's statement. Obviously, since February 11th last year, we have not been able to provide quite the same amount of bandwidth and resources anymore but that did not mean that we abandoned the community. Have we shifted to talk more about Qt than Maemo? Absolutely. And Quim has been very smart in outlining it within this blog post http://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/2...1-2-harmattan/

Re: Council election
 

Regarding the Supertesters initiative we have been trying to contact Niels and Henri for a month now and yet no answer.

I wouldn't qualify that as rude, just non-existent. I can Imagine it's not directly their fault, just that they are assigned to other work and probably don't have the time to care about the Maemo community.

This is precisely the situation that we are currently trying to fix either by changing the relationship with Nokia or moving somewhere else where we could, at least, solve simple administrative and maintenance tasks.

Re: Council election
 

I have already sent my nomination, though I haven't received any answer.

Re: Council election
 

I nominate woody14619, estel, geneven and SD69.

Re: Council election
 

Please do it on the mailing list or wherever is the appropriate place nominations to be done. Otherwise it won't work.

BTW, why you did not nominate yourself? Too lazy or what? :p

Re: Council election
 

It doesn't appear to have made it to the list so far, though other messages from you have. You may have to re-send.

Nominating yourself on the list is enough, no answer required.

Re: Council election
 

Resent.

10chars

Re: Council election
 

I literally do not have time. That combined with my utter contempt for Nokia means I will be a less than 'productive' Councillor.

Re: Council election
 

The difference in my involvement compared to Quim's has been to a large degree due to differences how the project was set up back in Quim's good ole' days and now. It was announced late 2010 by Tero Kojo and the council that Nemein take over the practical matters and the infrastructure, and according to the agreement, Nokia has no direct say on matters related to maemo.org. With a very hands-on approach I would have only muddled the share of responsibilities.

As for the co-operation with the council, I believe have been participating in every council meeting I have been invited to. I have tried quite a bit to encourage the current council (with only one active member) to look forward and work in directions I regarded would be in the best interest of the whole community, but the response was less than enthusiastic. The investment Nokia is continuously making in Maemo.org is quite substantial and if the current council would have gotten their will through by cutting the ties to Nokia altogether, I am 100% conviced that the community would've died the instant Nokia would have cancelled the contracts. That was obviously a path I was not prepared to take, and this has been a major contributor to the stalemate of late.

There has been some deep paranoia about Nokia's attitudes towards Maemo.org lately. I must vouch that it has been unfounded all the time. Unfortunately, due to the internal situation here, I haven't been able to alleviate the concerns with any statements or promises. Luckily, the situation is now quite a bit clearer, and together with Quim taking over, I believe the worst is over.

What I hope to see is that there would be plenty of nominations for people who would be interested and able to co-operate with Quim to move Maemo.org forward in directions that would best benefit the community around Nokia's Maemo- and Qt-based devices!

Cheers,

ma.

Re: Council election
 

For reference, the wiki page is Link talk.maemo.org account with maemo.org profile.

In previous elections, the Council has gone to the effort of identifying eligible, but unlinked, TMO accounts and included them in the voter list. This is non-trivial work, and involves liaising with Reggie and whomever is running the election.

Re: Council election
 

However, there is still communication and empowerment that can be done within the community.

It's also not yet been posted in this thread, but Quim has resumed the position of Nokia's Maemo Community Manager.

Why do you need to wait to be elected? Help shine light on things, help the Council coordinate/minute/communicate meetings, help moderate the tone of all parties...

I'm afraid I do. Having someone contracted, and paid, to maintain the servers (even if they haven't been responsive to out-of-band requests recently) is not an insignificant task.

To be clear, again, I do not think the long-running "Ask the Council" thread is where brainstorming should be happening. It was intended for one off questions, or to point the council at a different thread (possibly on a different medium). Wide-ranging discussions should be being held on their own thread, and highlighted so that people who don't review all threads on TMO regularly can participate.

Re: Council election
 

Estel has been helping quite a bit. Over the course of the last six months, more boots on the ground work than you have actually...


I agree with this.

Those of us who are working on maemo are a small group but we know the status of the community and what each of us are about. You and others are now popping up demanding links, and explanation, claiming you're being ignored if you don't get prompt answers, etc. Please take the time to reacquaint yourself with what has been going on. Ask questions, sure, but please be patient.

Re: Council election
 

Woah. I don't think that is fair. If only the current council have been more transparent of their plans then there would be less questions.

Jaffa has been in the council 4 times and has been actively reporting on everything Maemo and MeeGo every week(!) at mwkn.net. Understand that he and a lot others have contributed a lot to make maemo.org the central hub for everything maemo. The thought of fragmenting the community will not just go too well.

Re: Council election
 

The talk on this thread is scary. We sound like we want to get fragmented even more than things already are. Personally, I believe SD69 did a wonderful, commendable job, and I support his nomination with absolutely no reserve. With Quim handling matters now, I think let's give him support. As things stand now, we appear to be distrustful of one another.

If we don't become a 'team' at this particular point in time, then we'll be extinct in no time.

Re: Council election
 

Thanks Matti for the explanation. I'm sure that Niels or Henri from Nemein can also come, explain their situation and be reasonable. Just like anybkdy in this thread: if we bother posting here is because we all care.

I encourage anybody interested to stand up and run for the Council election. We have a very interesting time ahead (no idea about the details, but that is for granted). In my opinion, the next 6 months are relevant to define the future of the Maemo community more in the lines of a DieHard classic arcade group or as the first and best step toward the open mobile community that nobody has been able to put together so far. One great thing about this community (which is something I also enjoy at the Qt community) is the curiosity and willingness to discuss and work on several platforms, as long as the free software we love runs on them.

If your motivation to be a Council member is to resist and fight Nokia think it twice. Here it is an invitation to work togetger with the whole commmunity to define the future and the next steps to walk.

Re: Council election
 

And two little comments:

Someone said that now there is hostility while before... I don't think there is much to be proud about, but I recall times with fierce hostility. Relax, we are well within the usual margins. :)

I'm taking from Matti the responsibility to be the point of contact with the Council. As Matti has explained, even if Nokia funds Nemein we are not their boss. I'll help solving problems if/when they happen, though. This doesn't make me maemo.org community manager, though. I'm a community member here, and this is not rethoric.

Re: Council election
 

I really appreciate you are again on board Quim. I'm pretty sure you will help to push things to be done.

Could you please take a look at the Supertester initiative and help us to improve promotion of packages, with further discussion though mailing list.

Re: Council election
 

Without a single, overarching purpose, community fragmentation is unavoidable. And that doesn't necessary have to be a "bad" thing either. A profound change in ultimate purpose is often a signal to the community that it's time for each individual to ask what attracted them in the first place.

For me, it was the hardware. Forget cell phones-- I found the idea of a portable full-fledged computer intoxicating. So when as a Nokia engineer I was empowered to help make such a thing successful, I was in hardware heaven.

I came to this community as a bridge between Nokia and a motley collection of enthusiasts. Same with Quim and others. I won't speak for them, but I stayed even after my employment ended because I still believed there was potential in Maemo devices. The shift to MeeGo was a struggle to process but once I bought in, it made sense to see that as the logical place to be. But again, my focus was on hardware. With the N9/N950 being ostensibly orphaned, the most logical place for me to go next was http://opentablets.org to support the Vivaldi. (Note that, as a Nokia Developer Champion, I'm in the unique position of not knowing anything about Meltemi but being forbidden to speculate about it).

It may actually be useful to fragment Maemo resources, directing them where they're determined to be most useful. Or maybe not, depending on events that, unfortunately and ironically, are planned behind closed doors.

Given the current state of uncertainty, community leaders making strong demands or decisions seems premature to me. I realize how crazy that sounds, since the uncertainty has lasted so long. After all I suggested that the exiting council be the one that worked with Nokia on a wind-down or transition plan for this place.

And speaking of places-- for many, the forum is IT. This IS the Maemo community in a very real sense. There's a rich legacy here that isn't easily transported. We knew that going into MeeGo and saw it proven. So I don't expect even the forum at opentablets to be a magic bullet-- but on the other hand, if enough passionate people relocated there, I daresay we could easily replicate the Maemo forum experience. After all, THAT is what made this forum a community: YOU. Collectively.

Participants here need to figure out what Maemo means or meant to them, and what they're looking for now and in the future. That will naturally be answered in many ways, and each individual needs to think about what he/she is looking for here to determine if they're even in the "right" place now and going forward.

Re: Council election
 

Considering recent news, I suggest that at least the required one month extension of the nominations period is enforced.

Re: Council election
 

It will be.

Re: Council election
 

Well, you say you are the Council contact from now on, along with being community member. Would you please answer if you are familiar with the current problems regarding the state of maemo repositories, the state of Fremantle CSSU, etc. I am asking, because if you are not, I would ask the Council to enlighten you ASAP, and if you are, would you throw some light on what you plan to do to. kernel-power problem is an example. Single maintainer for CSSU repositories hosted on maemo.org is another.

On the side note - my understanding is (according from your last activities on TMO of course), that Fremantle is no longer considered to be something valuable so everyone should switch to Harmattan, Tizen, Nemo, whatever new shiny technology is out there (or not). Is that correct, or you think Fremantle could live in the years to come if given the appropriate support from the community. But please, don't take my question as being offensive, it think it is really important to be known whether the Nokia contact with Maemo Community and especially the part who owns n900 and does not plan a switch until the lady falls apart, cares about the only OS which is fully functional and problem free (almost) so far on n900.

Re: Council election
 

well said texrat. No point in forcing people behind some project or make them stay or leave. We're all individuals here and make our own decisions. Nothing can be said or done that will please all and magically make all problems go away. But those who stay can do little things - test packages in testing, help other users, improve the wiki, etc. things that we've been doing here for ages already. That part hasn't changed. The thing that has changed is that there's less people doing some of those things. So what I'm saying is that we need to stop banging the panic button and concentrate on those little things to fix the problems one by one here. Moving to a new domain doesn't fix those issues. If the funding stops after this year then the issues here have been already thought and hopefully solved to some extent and furthermore there's no need for the panic button then either. But until it happens focusing on moving away is just a waste of time and energy.

I've thought a bit what I stated in the mailing list earlier (agreed that the council is of no use anymore) and I'm taking what I said back. I do think the council is still relevant and needed but it cannot solve or do all the things by itself (it isn't even supposed to). It's up to the community.