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-   -   Nokia on the brink of failure (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83589)

volt 2012-05-04 12:36
Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 
If Microsoft didn't talk about a 3-4 year push, they would hardly be doing their jobs, would they? It would dumbfound me if they didn't. Even Nokia did, with both Symbian^3 and MeeGo alike, up till the 2/11 attack on Twin Platforms.

At our small company we talk about a 3-4 year push, and that doesn't mean that we're about to succeed in conquering the world. It means that officially, we're still employed.

I don't expect to hear Microsoft saying "Look, we're going to push Windows 8 as the next big thing up until, say October, but as soon as it hits the shelves, we're going to stop developing it and it'll not be replaced by the next thing that we'd usually already be looking at developing next".

Texrat 2012-05-04 14:29
Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue (Post 1201535)
You do know that saying "they're in this for the long haul" is beating the dead horse too.
Not really. The phrase is meant to apply to something dead, gone, kaput, finished, broken beyond repair, etc. Microsoft isn't there yet. And they still have the resources necessary to succeed; the questions is, as usual, one of execution.

And contrary to Danramos' assertion, Microsoft isn't irrelevent, either. No more than IBM was before their last successful reinvention. However, they are certainly on the cusp of irrelevancy.

Pessimists stand ready with that last nail and a hammer. They're a bit premature. It's easy to rattle off a list of failures as if they alone define a company. But that's as much a form of self-delusion as unfettered optimism is.

Cue 2012-05-04 15:38
Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 1201854)
Not really. The phrase is meant to apply to something dead, gone, kaput, finished, broken beyond repair, etc. Microsoft isn't there yet. And they still have the resources necessary to succeed; the questions is, as usual, one of execution.

And contrary to Danramos' assertion, Microsoft isn't irrelevent, either. No more than IBM was before their last successful reinvention. However, they are certainly on the cusp of irrelevancy.

Pessimists stand ready with that last nail and a hammer. They're a bit premature. It's easy to rattle off a list of failures as if they alone define a company. But that's as much a form of self-delusion as unfettered optimism is.
That idiom does not apply to things that are broken or kaput. You are looking at its literal meaning as an analogy, you shouldn't. That idioms alternative is "flogging a dead horse" which is pretty much what is happening with that statement. It is the act of trying to raise interest in an issue that no-one supports anymore. That fits the rep and your statement better than any other statement I've seen here to be honest.

Texrat 2012-05-04 16:04
Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 
Now let's beat the dead horse of hair-splitting. ;)

(in all seriousness, yeah, I agree with your definition but disagree that the 3-4 year push expression fit the description)

gazza_d 2012-05-04 18:41
Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 
And The Register is now reporting Nokia's had a class action suit filed against them in the US on behalf of shareholder for poor performance and misleading shareholders - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05..._class_action/

danramos 2012-05-04 19:09
Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazza_d (Post 1201978)
And The Register is now reporting Nokia's had a class action suit filed against them in the US on behalf of shareholder for poor performance and misleading shareholders - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05..._class_action/
Some things are just best expressed in pictures.
http://oi55.tinypic.com/2yuzgog.jpg
http://tundratabloids.com/wp-content...04/screwed.jpg

specc 2012-05-06 01:35
Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 1201854)
Not really. The phrase is meant to apply to something dead, gone, kaput, finished, broken beyond repair, etc. Microsoft isn't there yet. And they still have the resources necessary to succeed; the questions is, as usual, one of execution.

And contrary to Danramos' assertion, Microsoft isn't irrelevent, either. No more than IBM was before their last successful reinvention. However, they are certainly on the cusp of irrelevancy.

Pessimists stand ready with that last nail and a hammer. They're a bit premature. It's easy to rattle off a list of failures as if they alone define a company. But that's as much a form of self-delusion as unfettered optimism is.
Past, present, future. Their past or present isn't irrelevant, but their future is getting more and more irrelevant for each day, and that includes their way of doing business. That is a fundamental problem that all the money in the world cannot fix. It's like pouring money into CRT, when LCD, Plasma and OLED clearly is taking over. Google is leading the way. Apple will face the same problem in a not so distant future, it is inevitable.

Just think about it. There are only two ways of beating Google. One way is to be a better Google than Google. The other way is to change the game (the current game that Google is playing) in a similar manner as Google did, but of course in a way that as of yet has not been thought of. MS and Apple are both playing by the old rules, MS hopelessly so, Apple still got some killer products to carry them as well as the brand, but ultimately they are doomed as anything but the niche product they in fact are.

ir.miringila 2012-05-06 02:53
Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 
for me nokia's failure have nothing to do with m$ and wp.... maybe they have to start it again from the beginning. it will take years to bring back their victory..

danramos 2012-05-06 08:30
Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ir.miringila (Post 1202417)
for me nokia's failure have nothing to do with m$ and wp.... maybe they have to start it again from the beginning. it will take years to bring back their victory..
I sincerely believe that it will be unlikely to have years to be able to come back to a "victory." I believe the era of Nokia's dominance is at a rightful end, for all its own executives' arrogance and ignorance toward customers.

specc 2012-05-06 17:04
Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1202456)
I sincerely believe that it will be unlikely to have years to be able to come back to a "victory." I believe the era of Nokia's dominance is at a rightful end, for all its own executives' arrogance and ignorance toward customers.
I tend to agree with you on that. But look at Samsung, their arrogance towards customers regarding updates on their devices is beyond anything Nokia has ever done. Then look at Apple and their profit margins. The arrogance is out of this world, or the stupidity of the customers is out of this world for paying many times over for their products, can't really decide, maybe both are true.

I don't think arrogance is what kills a company, they are all arrogant in some way or the other. If the product is good, we can live happily with the arrogance, but if the product starts to be mediocre, the arrogance only piss us off.


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