Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Good folks there is one aspect. In case if nokia drops down, microsoft will lose ability in mobile forever. Forever. Then disgrace.
So i think Ahonen forget about someone who supports and protects Nokia in all WP dramas.
And Amazingly, why, why M$ put on Nokia not Sammy. Balmer must think about it. Ha-ha-ha.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Reported that shares were down 17% at the beggining of the week and set to fall further.
The writing is on the wall, IMO, and Elop insits on throwing money at his WP7 strategy.
They need to fall back to Maemo/MeeGo, f*ck Android right off the scale. Going with that would be going from 1 "ecosystem/prison" to another. Google's future plans are to become more closed, integrated to the point that if you want to use Google anything you gotta use Google everything. I love the freedom that Maemo & MeeGo offer, none of this "If you want to do that you gotta use this", "It's my party and noone else is invited".

If Nokia don't do something other than throw money down the WP7 drain they're gonna need a miracle and at present they're at the back of a very...very long queue.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Why couldn't Nokia manufacture all of WP7, Android and MeeGo phones like every other sensible manufacturer? What was the sense in making an exclusivity arrangement with Microsoft?

What good will the one time payment from MS go to, if Nokia continues to make an operating loss of this magnitude.

From day 1, the live tile interface and the overall Metro UI has seemed extremely unlike Nokia.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I too say screw android. They might as well continue with WP. We wanted Nokia to offer a reliable alternative not become MS or googles whore(even though I would understand moving towards the second). But what is scary is that even now there are no articles with "rumors of Elop chair being unsafe" or "Nokia rethinking their strategy" I mean after this colossal failure and it;s been more than a year now there should have been someone at the board thinking about throwing failop out of the window and leaking some info to the press. But there's nothing which makes me think that they either have accepted that their going down or they know that even of they go down MS will come and buy them.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

i d'nt understand why you (some) hate androids and praise Maemo/meego ? coz maemo/meego is Linux ? android is only using Linux kernel ? or Android is not supported by Nokia ?? Please tell i want to Know.. whats the reason, why you cant see the Androids success even google watch every movement of us by android. as i think its only HD Games and better UI then Symbian, coz all apps are Symbian related before android. how much N900 successful ? You can say its successful but it was not. if it was then Nokia never left it behind. i never used a Android(Used Nitdroid on N900) iOS, BB, Java,WP Phone. first was symbian and now maemo. and seriously thinking about Android with HW keyboard.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Well, I did look in Tizen. And I didn't like it a single bit. Using HTML for GUI's is just plain stupid. They're trying to polish a turd.



"hate" android? Nah. But there are things I don't like:

• It's controlled by Google, an advertising company. This is very dubious from a privacy-standpoint. Also, while Android is open source, it's not really open development. Qt and Java are much more open. (Yes, Google claims Android is not theirs anymore, but they've given it the OHA. Which they dominate.)
• Java rip-off. While Android is Java-based, it's not per se compatible with the many, many libraries available for JavaSE. Also, they used another VM which can't run normal Java binaries. While the Dalvik VM is arguably somewhat more efficient than the JVM, it lacked a JIT-compiler until not so long ago (thus it was very slow). Also, given the current multi-core, multi-GiB smartphones the lesser efficiency of the "old" JVM is of no concern.
• Mediocre multitasking. Most of the time I just have to guess whether an application is still running in the background or not. Apps are deactivated "automatically". On the N9/Meego it's simple: if you haven't closed an app, it's still active. And closing apps is *really* simple. Still, Android beats WP and iOS, which truly regard the users as idiots when it comes to multitasking.
• And finally, while it is Linux-based, Android lacks common features which most other Linux-based systems, like Harmattan, do have.

Granted, the DalvikVM, the stripped-down Java and Linux-environment probably were necessary to make Android work on the limited hardware of the first smartphones (slow CPU, little RAM and Flash) but currently these factors really are of no concern. Android-devices would be very capable of running full desktop-versions of Linux and full JavaSE. (In fact, JavaSE 7 runs fine on an unmodified N9)

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

:confused: ok i agree its lacks Java and Multitasking but why its gatting hotter day by day ?? How much Developers in World ?? and How much Population ?? Products are prepared for Mass Users not only for Developers.. and here we only sees things according to US(i am not Developer, even d'nt know what/who is developers). The Blog discussed above clearly mentioned why Nokia Sinking and that is Elop and MS. i think we should hate Elop and MS not android.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

That article also made a very interesting point too, "Hire a CEO who has a background in the carrier industry". Someone who has a greater relationship with the Carrier companies than even Nokia has/had, someone who can put the carriers confidence back into Nokia.

I really do not know what is being said behind Nokias closed doors but should the conversation of who will be their next CEO, then I do hope they consider this.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

The weird thing is that nokia refuses to talk about meltemi and the future of linux and Qt at nokia. This is their plan B or at least additional business model. They will need as many developers as possible and should offer Qt mobile devs a perspective. All we hear is Qt for the next billion blah blah, without any timetable or other info.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Android is only successful because it's "GIVEN AWAY" to handset manufacturers and we all know how the majority of manufacturers want something for nothing, (evident by the number of patent lawsuits flying around). And given that Google is not in the top ten list for trustworthyness, granted not a lot of companies are. Nokia have made a few dodgy moves in the past, but they haven't been on the same scale as Google, MS, Yahoo etc etc etc.
Then you've got your networks, who have been allowed to put whatever hacks, custom software and heavy restrictions into the OS, which range from heavy ad based browsing to the downright unscrupulously hidden eavesdropping hacks that phone home on a regular basis. Apple, Blackberry and Google devices were all found to contain some sort of data gathering hacks (installed by the manufacturers or network providers) that went way further than just looking to see what apps you installed. As far as I am aware, myself, I haven't heard anything to suggest Nokia did the same.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Just because WP is worse crap doesn't mean that android isn't crap either. One can simply dislike both it doesn't have to be one or the other. Popularity has nothing to do with quality BTW.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Not only that, For many, Google seems the opposite of Microsoft; altruistic, hip, innovative. They can't do anything wrong, and Google is some kind of saint in company-form. They are THE alternative for Apple for people who fall for that (imho false) altruism. Giving stuff for ""free"" to end users also helps a lot, even if they actually pay with their private data...

Microsoft isn't perceived as hip, nor altruistic, nor innovative. Whether that is actually true doesn't matter.

I would be a terrible marketeer I guess. But I've hardly seen Nokia highlighting the strong points of Maemo/Meego: openess (opener than Android), privacy (Android *really* pushes you to create a Google-account, which then is used for nearly everything), mulitasking and standards-support. But perhaps they couldn't because of Microsoft, which is even much worse than Android on these points...

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Another problem for Nokia is, that Microsoft is being totally silent about the low sales numbers of Windows Phone devices. It almost feels like Nokia has to do all the promotion and marketing themselves. Microsoft might support the campaigns financially, but there has been no supportive words from MS executives.

I can understand, that Ballmer doesn't seem to give a *hit about Windows Phone, but where in the world is Corporate Vice President Terry Myerson hiding? He shoud be shouting and promoting everywhere how great Windows Phone is. But no. Nothing at all. Just Nokia. Alone.

It seems that Microsoft has actually given up, and focusing to NT-kernel based Windows Phone 8. But this doesn't help Nokia at all at this point.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Everybody knew Nokia was crazy and stupid to put all their eggs in Microsoft's basket. If that basket bottom falls out, everything will be lost. Users want apps and a sleek UI. Symbian has never looked so good as it does now with Belle and it could only get better, and there's no sweeter UI than MeeGo's. But Elop came from Microsoft with his intentions all along.

On the apps side, MeeGo and Symbian won't see the numbers Android and iOS enjoy because Elop already called them dead, so developers are staying away. Am sure when they first saw MeeGo they impressed, and probably still are, but if that ship has no captain, why jump aboard.

The board need to open their eyes and do something, demand a refocus on MeeGo, start attracting developers of popular apps, get Google support, and get their heads out of Microsoft's ***

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Because that's popular and has more "killer applications"? Could you imagine a PC manufacturer selling linux only PCs to general consumers? That's what Nokia are doing in a sense, what makes it worse for them is that WP isn't even open so it doesn't even attract the FOSS crowd. WP is not popular, is less functional, with less apps, and is closed too. Who are Nokia going to attract to their product? Nokia underestimates the public's intelligence if they think marketing alone is going to shift this tide that easily.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Well actually Nokia could/can use "android" who says it has to be Google version of the OS. For example look at what Amazon did with the Kindle Fire they did a code rewrite made it look nothing like Google version, its more focused on consumers, they opened their own app store and built their own relationship with developers whereby devs get more per app on average even when compared to the Google Play store. Also amazon gets all the profits and nothing is paid to Google.

Nokia in the past with all of the brand value and services could have done exactly the same thing that Amazon and be even more successful, end of the day all that matters is Apps. Also WP7 market place may have currently have more apps but Amazon app store is showing exceptional growth.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Correct. There are exactly 10 companies on that list. :cool:

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Domination in PC OS has nothing to do with smartphone OS.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I would just like to say that Nokia is a massive phone company and contrary to what people the market makes more than the iPhone market and possibly more than Android. I don't believe Nokia will fall, it's only going to get bigger. But Meego would have been massive.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Nokia can't use "Plan B" now, because it's past the time of using that.. They need an abortion now..

10 points to the people who gets my post.. :D;)

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

you totally forgotten that microsoft actually PAYING nokia for using wp...

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

so you think eflop only one too blame for this mess? The whole board have to get fired thats for sure.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Nope, everyone is to blame but since you can't fire the board Elop would be a nice scapegoat that would take all the blame and by firing him the board would send a strong message to their clients and markets that noone F***s with Nokia. But we all know that wont happen

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Eflop has made sure it won't happen. If they threw WP7 down the pan along with Eflop what exactly have they got to fall back on?
He's sold Symbian to a "marketing company"? and chances are he's had everything else recycled and put into his WP7 baby.

One minute WP7 is Nokia's future, the next it isn't. Given the signals and hints he's given over the past 6 months, he can't make his damn mind up on what the future is.
Seems to me he knows he's dropped the big one and he's pacing up and down saying "What am I gonna do What am I gonna do?"

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Paying someone a dime to lose a dollar is hardly doing them a favor... And remember, with that one big payout, Microsoft got their clammy hands on all of Nokias patents! That alone should be worth atleast that sum.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

You could have just said "it's like pissing in your pants for warmth". At least then Nokia would understand.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Did you actually use Kindle Fire? Its just Android 2.3 with unresponsive and ugly UI glued over it. On top of that they took Android 2.3 default browser with all its bugs, removed about:debug, added their famous cache, christened it Silk and voila, a new broken browser though with different UA. I don't really call that a "new" OS.

On a similar note, if the browser in Android can be any measure for Android's OS quality - Android is doomed. In Android 4.x the browser is so bad, it makes baby seals cry. Don't get me started on all the bugs and "features", they are getting for the worse with every release :)

Not that the Harmattan browser is better, but at least they are not inventing broken things to cover other broken things. And Qt is killer feature for development (though I would prefer styling to not be restricted to QML only).

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Why restrict yourself to the stock Android browser? There are plenty of 3rd party browsers around including the excellent Opera Mobile.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

@bundyo its a £200 tablet, what you expect it to be fast as lighting. The ugly UI is a matter of opinion different people like different looks, its not all about version numbers, btw its a successful "android tablet" that dosen't have to pay for Google services.

i was mainly talking about a different strategy that could be adopted if nokia was more agile and if it still had maintained its other services to prevent it from collapsing in on it self and become a blackhole is the mobile industry.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Didn't Nokia give 2000 patents to mosaid so they can patent troll for Microsoft?
http://www.nokiaphones.net/2000-noki...nadian-mosaid/

And I seem to remember Barnes and Noble describing exactly what Elop the MS Trojan horse is doing somewhere in a legal .......wait here it is, I just found it, yeah this.
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...11111122291296

I remember reading that before but it is very detailed so if you want a more easy to understand summary of it try this
http://www.extremetech.com/computing...y-barnes-noble

Elop is a Microsoft trojan horse plain and simple. He is to destroy or render irrelevant any other OS Nokia has and Kamikaze itself for Microhard

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Again... if Elop is a trojan horse, the people that allowed the trojan horse into their city regretted it. I wonder if the Nokia board of directors regret it yet.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I see your point. By definition If he is a Trojan Horse there has to be a group of people that has been conned into believing this was all rosey and nice but they were really tricked but if that were so then why has he not been "field goal" kicked out of the company by now by any means necessary.
But I submit to you that it is the wider audience, the customer base/employee culture/ecomark.... I mean ecosystem that is serving as the loyal group that has been infiltrated by this trojan horse and there are collaborators on the inside.
And he is not letting the N9 into major markets and Symbian just needed a UI change and to break the lowest processor possible trend because it is super carrier friendly. His intent is to destroy Nokias other OS's and kamikaze nokia into the enemies of android and apple and if there is anything left let microhard have it if they still want it.
Why else would Microhard buy Skype to piss off carriers after he makes the announcement? I mean killing QT was so so so obvious a trojan horse move.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Elop sure dropped a lot of hints on his way in.

http://www.toonpool.com/user/707/fil...se_1015765.jpg

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

so when will people realize iphone 4s is a bad value? I think as soon as att starts pushing the lumia. Att made the iphone a success, got raped by apple in turn they overcharged their customers. That $30 data plan with $20 for messaging was originated with iphone. Lets wait for qtr 2 results. If those are also bad then we have a problem.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

and at that price it has a dualcore of the same processor core thats in the n9. A larger screen. They benfited from r&d for the playbook, its a stripped down playbook. So its a great buy. actually the playbook is a great buy for 199. http://www.buy.com/prod/rim-blackber...221285920.html

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Well, they're already looking bad
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...al_outlook.php

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Ok. I can see things this way. But between you and I... let's be honest. How do you convince an entire board of directors from within? People want to blame the investors and the board of directors which are mostly (and falsely claimed) to be North American.

The Board of Directors for Nokia are mostly European: here's a list.

So what happened? You have to have failures for the board to have gone into such a radical different direction. Comes with Music wasn't a success. N-Gage was not a success. Symbian was still selling damn well, so that's not a failure. Maemo had started and stopped 4 times, was working on the 5th iteration, the final step out of what was planned - but that wasn't happening fast enough nor at a pace that would have made any other iteration, N900 included on par with other mainstream successes. So that was a long term "failure" if you were going to use modern criteria (read: iPhone and Samsung Galaxy S sales) for comparisons.

Combine a bit if this, a bit of that, a "dying" OS that was looking dated to most folks that didn't listen to Belle's updates were coming.

It was an easy sell. Something needed to be done, there was a burning platform, the board must have felt something was amiss because their sells, while great, had been on the steady decline since 2007.

Ecosystem was only a sell if and only if they felt as if something was missing. Comes with Music/Ovi Music, the e-mail situation (moved to Yahoo of all people), et al... something was just wrong and Elop, in typical PT Barnum manner sold the board what they felt was missing.

Ecosystem.

Such a dirty word now, isn't it?

This... made absolutely no sense to me. The decision not to sell something that had a positive buzz on many forums and tech blogs should have been followed up with at least a limited sell in those areas plus support/warranty support in those limited areas.

But instead... they didn't do that. Nokia did something worse - they put each and every one of their eggs into one basket. Not smart.

The Skype purchase goes deeper than just carriers. Who uses MSN? Who uses Live communicator? Who uses their products for IM - which is quickly starting to surpass SMS in most countries?

eBay couldn't figure out what to do with Skype - mismatch right there, imho. So why not do that?

Can't kill Qt by that move. Skype, VLC and quite a few others still use Qt to this day.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Why does Nokia destroy all their world-wide accepted OS' only to push Windows phone to focus US market - but then does it so bad?

Why does nobody over here (US) know about the Lumia? Why have I only seen one little crappy advertisement about it on TV (the Lumia 800 ads in Europe are much better). Why do Best-Buy worker not even know what a Lumia is? Why don't I see any people using windows phones over here (1 so far, a HTC)? People might think the US is flooded the same with Lumia ads as European cities, but forget it. Nothing compared to that.

And at last but not least: Why am I asked almost every 2 day about my N9: "Cool what phone is that? When does it come to the US? Gosh we are so behind over here with phones." - and this by females and males age 20-26 and older.

Elop is a trojan horse or just incredible stupid - 2 years ago I saw at least sometimes a single Nokia phone in a US store, now nothing at all. (btw I haven't been yet to an AT&T store)

Windows phone is the most burning platform ever, I hope WP will survive and gain more users since I don't wanna see only Androids and iPhones around. But using WP as a main platform is a companies dead. If you are a Nokian you might talk and hear about WP/Lumia everyday - if you're just a normal smartphone users, you probably won't even know what all that is about.

My post is not a complain about Nokia's strategy, but a way to express how I just can't understand what Nokia is doing...

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I can't help but read between the lines on Nokia's inexplicable embargo on sales of the N9 in all of the major markets. It seems as though it is a contractual agreement with Microsoft. There is simply no other explanation for it. Microsoft forced them to hold the N9 back in exchange for the subsidies and marketing assistance they are giving to Nokia.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Nokia already stated Q2 results are bad