Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

More bad news here http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04...de_nokia_junk/

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

You mean more good news. Why should we feel bad for the company that has sticked it in our behinds with every chance.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Because the vast majority of the people who will be hurt by Nokia failing are lower level employees who had nothing to do with the decision to abandon us. If Nokia goes bankrupt tomorrow, Elop will still be very wealthy. There's no chance that the people actually responsible for choosing Windoze will actually suffer if ZunePhones fail in the marketplace.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Nokia N9 is a good try, but not good enough. Its OS, while innovative is not revolutionary and was released as a beta version. It's not smooth. It lags, it stutters. It can't compete with the big boys. And how long did it take to get to N9? Five itinerarions? That is pathetic. Either Nokia engineers are real bad, or resources prior to Elop arriving were not spent appropriately.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I understand what you're saying. I agree with you I only feel sorry for the workers there and for the guys that have already been fired.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Seriously, you are just trying to troll the boards now aren't you. Maybe you should do a little more research before commenting about the previous Maemo based Nokia Internet devices.

As for calling the N9 a beta device and not able to compete with "the big boys" just proves you are feeding on the MSFlop bull**** advertising machine. Ask youself this... What OS device is it that sinking Nokia into the whole ATM?

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I will kill your hope of NOKIA and MS ever working together, the two companies are so different in culture and market that this is impossible. MS will go beely up first, and your assumption of the quick demise of the Symbian is also based on ignorance. The phones are all GSM phones, where all interfaces are according to STANDARDS. Ever heard of a standard that MS has agreed to adhere to? See how it has ignore TCP/IP for years? MS employees are former Radio Shack employees, ignorant with great ability to speak. NOKIA has developed their technology and contributed to the GSM standards. Their employees are PhD, code smith, with experience with those that buy their devices and the operators/carriers - and their systems.

The US has a problem that we cannot solve. We do not want a Marxist "ecosystem" - and I really doubt many Americans want it. So NOKIA as a very simple way out: Use Symbian for their phone - making all Qt coded apps available here, then work with Ubuntu and develop 2 Debian based variants - just upgrade the N900 with plain vanilla Ubuntu GNOME NotePad, and the N9 with the KDE. That should solve all issues related to availability of software.

The difference between these phones is in how the screen looks. Make my N900 a little bigger, fit with 2 batteries, increase CPU to 1.6GHz and keep the rest and call it N910. Do the same with the N9, and fire that reverse Pole. I left a company because the way my division made money caused envy, the reverse Pole should have the sense to know when to walk - when they still pay you for leaving, before they admit you and you plead insanity...

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Do not post what you know NOTHING about.
The N9 is based on code that has been better tested than both Android and the iPhone, and not compared to MS WP. The core software is Linux, which is also very similar to MacOS (Unix BSD). The main difference to the N900 is how the frames are drawn and the colour used. Nokia made the N9 to comply with a project they had with Intel, and Samsung has made a prototype of a similar device. Finally: who are the "Big boys"? Look at the mobile handset market and tell me where the are the "Big boys". Android is a shot at a simplification of the same OS.:mad:

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I have downgraded them a long time ago.
It is managed by people that does not have a clue about the market that they sell to, no idea about the technology they offer just firm believer in their own excellence. Any other sane person would have handed in their voluntary resignation a long time ago - but here, they keep on insisting that they are right.

Well, we will see. Ubuntu is coming with a phone that is based on the Android architecture. That will give those of us on N900 and N9 and exit path - to Samsung and HTC devices.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I base my experience on N900 and N9. Have/had multiple of them. Beta OS, cant compete in the US. If you cant compete in the US, you will lose elsewhere. That is why NOKIA is so keen to penetrate the US market. Symbian couldnt do it. Meego is beta in every way possible. No American will put up with the laginess and stuttering and no apps. Apples iphone sold more than all of Symbian smartphones combined. NOKIA engineers just cant do it.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I know that when I use N900 and N9, the experience on these devices is subpar to what you get with Android and iphone. Period. Sales prove it. Now, if you are talking about being able to customize, etc., sure nice devices, but no good for where you make money: the COMMON consumer.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I'm in the UK and I've never seen one Windows Phone device in the wild.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I only for the first time saw someone else with an N900 last week which was an interesting chat.

Make no mistake, the Lumia range are brilliant looking phones. The problem is that nobody wants Windows on their mobiles and no matter how much Nokia or Microsoft try and shove it done our throats, we have the final decision in what we buy.

And in the short term, the cash from MS is probably keeping Elop in his job, but that's not gonna last too much longer. But it's also too late to do anything about it, they can't go back to MeeGo as in another year or so it'll look outdated too.

They can't build something from scratch either as they don't have the time to **** about anymore.

I said it on another thread, Nokia are finished as a company.

Elop if he had anything about him, would hold his hands up and walk away now, so at least the final act for Nokia will be in their own hands.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Before Elop murdered Symbian it had been the best selling smartphone OS in every single quarter ever.

At that moment it was outselling Apple and Samsung smartphones combined - the undefeated champion was stabbed in the back.

The N8 had started to do really well in China which has now developed into a bigger smartphone market than America. Elop's announcement killed that momentum too of course.

NOKIA's engineers certainly could do it, they had proved it over an extended period of time before their efforts were sabotaged.

What have M$ got to boast about in the mobile arena?

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Ask yourself this, is that any worse than the 7+ iterations it took MS to get to the still pathetic and still outdated WP7.5?

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Actually... I gotta say that the codebase for Maemo stayed the same whereas WP7 is a "1.0" product. Both aren't better than the predecessors - if you think so, it's only marginally so.

And yet... that's who combined. Nokia + Microsoft. Both hadn't improved their chances by combining their forces.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

After my experiences with the n9 I gotta agree with Lumiaman somewhat. Potential is one thing, that's what maemo had. Potential unrealized. I sold that phone and got me a Galaxy Nexus, and I've been enjoying it tremendously.
I hope Nokia and/or Microsoft can get their act together....I'd like the market saturated with options :) Good thing for them is that they have a shitload of money. Nokia has reserves in the billions...they'll be alright

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Their mobile OS Windows Mobile has sold 50 million and did always have a larger market share than Windows Phone has yet to capture. 42% in 2007. They can always boast about that.

It had a horrible GUI for... ...usage, though.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Excuse me? Since when did Windows of ANY form get 42%? Here.. I'll do one better than you and cite a statistic (ComScore):

http://marketingland.com/wp-content/...AM-600x376.png
Source: http://marketingland.com/googles-sma...d-numbers-6875

heh... seriously. Here... here's another one for you to digest as a BIG PICTURE statistic/graph: http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph...daily-chart-13

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I just grabbed the numbers from Wikipedia. Smartphone share, obviously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows...e#Market_share

The one graph you linked showed a 36% market share... In the US. That's only 6% below the Wikipedia number, and in a limited segment, at that.

Simple numbers or fancy graphs, the US isn't the world. Heh, seriously.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I think MS did improve their chances, whereas Nokia completely destroyed theirs. Without Nokia WP would be completely irrelevant now instead of just declining. On the other hand Nokia are now doing worse than expected. Everybody knew that MS had more to gain from the deal than Nokia did but Elop was totally oblivious to this. All he saw was the short-term "billions" in cash while he destroyed his brand.

I've got to ask, how do you know how much the codebase for WP changed? we are not given that luxury like we are on Maemo. In fact WP shares a lot of bugs from WM so there was speculation that it was mostly WM 6.5 reskined. Ofcourse nobody can check this because it's not possible to do so. As for WP being "1.0" personally I would say it's still beta. The released Nokia WPs I've seen have had rather major bugs in them. Disappearing keyboards, phantom data, battery issues. Even with the Lumia 900, I saw a major connection bug. Releasing one phone, in one region, on one carrier with data connection issues, you would think that would have shown up in QA.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Looks like a few more cogs have been turning than we may have though... Nokia to announce its first manufacturing plant in Vietnam

Meltemi plant maybe?

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

another sad story:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83B0X520120412

"At the moment it seems that the strategic decisions were not correct," said Timo Rothovius, Chairman of the Finnish Shareholders Union, which represents small-cap local investors who have increased their holdings during the freefall.

"It might be that the Windows phones still take off, but at the moment it is hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel. Something radical has to be done. The company's credibility in the market is weak, and it suggests that maybe betting everything on one card wasn't a good thing," Rothovius said.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Big losses followed by Moody's downgrade on Monday:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47073404...s-us_business/

If they can start a new dev infrastructure around Maemo, now's the time. If not, $hitty Android could get their mitts. Terrible planning, Elop has. Plan B needed asap for the good of Nokia.

Need I remind everyone, Nokia's designs/hardware are still amazing. I would prefer that the company do well, so that Maemo has a chance to take off in the future, if not now.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

It's too little too late. They don't have the time or resources to relaunch another OS. If they launch anything it will be outdated from the getgo. Elop also cannot afford to admit he made a mistake at this stage so Nokia will probably die slowly.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I suppose Elop wouldn't mind. The locust would enjoy its bonuses and move on to the next company to grab some more.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

if the sales is low for N9 it is because it got no money to marketing the device :( instead those money got to the Lumia!

And dont come say WP is more ready than Harmattan is! If so why the **** doesnt Lumia 800 have NFC? Why doesnt they release a better camera? The list goes on.

The only reason Lumia may sell better for the endusers is MARKETING! People doesnt even know that the HW in Lumia 800 is less good than N9 in many cases: camera, display and also the body. Still they buy Lumia instead. And way is that? I give you the answer: Simply because the salespeople say "oh you should go for Lumia its better blablabla". Second reason and the most stupid reason is: Nokia does not WANT to sell Nokia N9 :mad: :mad: :mad:

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Also: Lumia costs 1$, N9 400-500$

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

$1, b/c Nokia is -$220 per phone. Nokia is currently losing a crapload of money from their current promotion, with subsidies and this rebate. If this doesn't take off, Nokia is going to get hit hard.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Honestly, the N9 is nothing special. It is slow and lags. The Lumia is better in that respect, much better. Nokia could just put ICS on all their N9s and Lumias and the sales would sky rocket. That's the truth, and obviously something is wrong with the strategy at Nokia. I'm not saying they should put ICS on their devices, but the prices must come down to make them competitive.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

ROI is not per handset now, but the 10% or such on each and every angry birds/fart/... app sold (or so the plan says). 1 billion $ for 34 million users of instagram, skipping development time and costs, puts 1 user at around 33$ value. Ad market is growing MUCH faster than smartphone market alone, this is the latest bubble. Once it breaks FB will be worth 1/10th of its current cost, Apple similarly, Nokia cannot fall lower as the assets alone are worth each and every piece of stock they have. Who will burst?

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

The question here is the following: Does NOKIA and MS have something in the pipeline in the next 18 months that will turn their tide for NOKIA to become profitable. If they do, the stock is a bargain price. You could make decent amount of money if patient and willing to be in there for the long term. It remains to be seen how well is Lumia 900 doing in US. If it truly exceeds the expectations, then WP8, with upgrades that will hopefully make it rival the other OSs, has a good chance of being a viable third competitior in this arena. If not, NOKIA will become a Taliban phone company, and that is it. The Meego and Maemo apologizers are few. The market showed that these devices are no good at making money.

I think that the Taliban on these boards are overtly negative. NOKIA is a solid company that has a solid roadmap to success. It is trying hard to enter into the US market, and LUMIA 900 is the best device to do it. Instead of supporting it, the Taliban here are biting the hand that feeds them. Who supports this website? Who gave you Linux devices to play with? Be happy and root for the success of MS-NOKIA.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

This argument is shitty at best. Born in USA, respect PATRIOT act and torturing, forget that China was the bad guy for doing it before, now we have legal basis for being bad guys. Not fed enough? Censor internet, SOPA/PIPA/CISPA... shut up because who is feeding you (China bad guy again???)? You are same as Taliban to whom you compare your adversaries in discussion, opensource community doesn't need Hitler/Stalin comparisons, discuss real merits/disadvantages, leave populism to the crowded places.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Open source doesn't make money. I believe in socialism too, but if you have to survive in capitalism, you better play by the rules of winner takes all. I know you are smarter than that.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

"Better to not type and be thought a fool, than to post as lumiaman and remove all doubt."

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

No. They do not. That's the problem.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

LOOOOOOOOL tell it to IBM, Oracle, Redhat etc that are making billions out of it. They have been making so much money than now MS recently launched a subsdiary that is to be involved in open source projects only.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

There is no such thing as a free lunch. You are smarter than that

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Open source doesn't mean it's also free as in beer.There are a lot of open source products that you have to pay for EG RHEL.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

You should tell that to the several companies that run/maintain and are daily falling into the "trap" of opensource. You should Google for companies that have been lead astray by this fake promise of profits from using opensource as a base... You know, Google, that huge resource for finding/storing/communicating things on the internet that consists mainly of Linux servers running GWS? :) If you had an Android phone, you could just type it in and get this important message out right away.

Nope.. nobody making money on that opensource crap... :rolleyes: