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-   -   Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84221)

ZogG 2012-05-12 00:03
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Gentoo/Funtoo if you want to get exp and understand it
Debian is user friendly
Calculate is gentoo based "out of the box", but i dont like idea, but for beginner...

My first and current is Gentoo(And Funtoo)

geneven 2012-05-12 01:31
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_falcone (Post 1205391)
Having several years of experiences with Ubuntu and OpenSUSE (both @home and professionally, a beginner couldnt possibly be more frustrated with their many (mainly through lazy QA) issues. Please drop suggesting such horse m
anure. Give Mint a try.
I have recommended Mint myself many times, and was one of its early fans. I wonder why it borrowed so heavily from Ubuntu if Ubuntu is such horse manure. In fact, such intolerant rhetoric on your part says a lot more about you than about Ubuntu.

Sazpaimon 2012-05-12 01:52
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Install Gentoo

quipper8 2012-05-12 01:54
+1 for mint for first time linux desktop

after a bit maybe you go to ubuntu for the wide reach and large user base

several years down, you will probably just run debian and a light desktop environment. I use debian and xfce.

vetsin 2012-05-12 03:31
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
@dumpystig
you got lots of replies pretty quick! :)
i'm a partial ubuntu user (work demands windows). i don't like the unity interface. i suggest you try it first before going full install.
stats at distrowatch show Mint above Ubuntu in terms of hits per day. Ubuntu was consistently number one before they used Unity.

anonymous 2012-05-12 03:50
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
I agree with Ubuntu and Mint as recommendations. Ubuntu has a windows installer. http://www.ubuntu.com/download/deskt...dows-installer You click on the exe, download and reboot.


I would add http://crunchbanglinux.org/ It's not as friendly, but it's fast. PCLinuxOS http://www.pclinuxos.com/ is newbie friendly. it has good hardware support and easy configuration tools. And puppy linux http://puppylinux.org/ just because it's fun. WOOF

You could and should try linux live cds, or put it on a usbck.
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ that way you can try different linux distros and you won't hurt your windows install.

If you're interested in the few people suggesting Gentoo, I would suggest sabayon http://www.sabayon.org/ instead. It's Gentoo with no fuss.

ajack 2012-05-12 03:51
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinogami (Post 1205378)
Can't go wrong with Ubuntu. That's what I dualboot my Macbook with. I believe they just released a new Long Term Support version (I'm on 10.04). If you don't like the default GUI (unity) you can install gnome just by typing "atp-get install gnome" or something like that to the shell (might be a good idea if you have big monitor(s))..
I agree with Shinogami, but use 12.04 which is the new LTS... I think SHinomi meant:

sudo apt-get install gnome-shell

:)

Hariainm 2012-05-12 03:55
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
latest ubuntu without unity. It sucks. You can get gnome3 from repositories.

sifo 2012-05-12 03:56
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
i never wanted to change winblows but after reading you guys cheering over here i like the idea about installing a linux distro but if im thinking about installing a rude distro :D (for h*ck*ng) which one it should be ? backtrack ?

./sifo

zimon 2012-05-12 07:02
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.rzr.online.fr (Post 1205395)
Ohh no ! welcome to the linux world
Meaning what? :-)

Shortly, rpm is better than deb because it by default (Fedora) supports embedded GPG signatures (to avoid MITM vulnerability in deb), delta software packages (.drpm) and transactions; all which are useful for security, integrity and speed and are not supported in typical deb package system and in deb distributions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rm42 (Post 1205500)
The reason I am using OpenSUSE (Tumbleweed) is because it is very up to date and very stable. For example, I am enjoying currently VLC 2.0.1, digiKam 2.5.0, and KDE 4.8.3. I doubt there is any other distro as up to date, except for the ones that are meant for very advanced users, such as Arch, and Gentoo.
Out of curiosity I checked version of those in Fedora 16:
Code:
# yum info vlc | grep Version
Version    : 1.1.13

# yum info digiKam | grep Version
Version    : 2.5.0

# yum info kde-runtime | grep Version
Version    : 4.8.3
I would use Gnome3 over KDE though to have a real Linux experience and being modern. KDE is abit obsolete IMO.

The newer VLC is also available to install from repository rpmfusion-free-rawhide:
Code:
# yum --enablerepo=rpmfusion-free-rawhide info vlc | grep Version
Version    : 2.0.1
The easiest way to try Fedora without yet installing or altering the system, is with a Live USB-stick. Can be done in MS Windows just downloading and running LiveUSB-creator program:

https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/

Needs about 1 GB usb-stick, which when created is useful to have ~300 MB persistent space and install rpmfusion repositories right after the first boot, so patent encumbered software packages can be installed (like MP3-support).

michaaa62 2012-05-12 07:50
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sifo (Post 1205552)
i never wanted to change winblows but after reading you guys cheering over here i like the idea about installing a linux distro but if im thinking about installing a rude distro :D (for h*ck*ng) which one it should be ? backtrack ?

./sifo
You could search http://distrowatch.org for specific distributions of GNU Linux. There are plenty to discover, if you have special requirements.

mrsellout 2012-05-12 08:17
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dumpystig (Post 1205513)
Right, I'm halfway thro' LiLi/Ubuntu setup. once this is done I'm off to bed, work in the morning.
Thanks for the inputs guys, I'll be back tomorrow, let you know what I think.
There's no need to lower the tone with images like that :P.

Seriously though omgubuntu.co.uk is a good fansite with articles that may be interesting/helpful, these two in particular might help get you up and running.

dumpystig 2012-05-12 08:23
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Lower the tone???

Just seen where you're @ :D

GrimyHR 2012-05-12 08:47
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous (Post 1205549)
I agree with Ubuntu and Mint as recommendations. Ubuntu has a windows installer. http://www.ubuntu.com/download/deskt...dows-installer You click on the exe, download and reboot.


I would add http://crunchbanglinux.org/ It's not as friendly, but it's fast. PCLinuxOS http://www.pclinuxos.com/ is newbie friendly. it has good hardware support and easy configuration tools. And puppy linux http://puppylinux.org/ just because it's fun. WOOF

You could and should try linux live cds, or put it on a usbck.
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ that way you can try different linux distros and you won't hurt your windows install.

If you're interested in the few people suggesting Gentoo, I would suggest sabayon http://www.sabayon.org/ instead. It's Gentoo with no fuss.
DO NOT USE WINDOWS INSTALLER! and i can not emphasize this enough, this will install linux on the same partition as windows in a virtual partition which will result in two things:
no benefit from journaled fs
and much lower performance

zimon 2012-05-12 11:39
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimyHR (Post 1205588)
DO NOT USE WINDOWS INSTALLER! and i can not emphasize this enough, this will install linux on the same partition as windows in a virtual partition which will result in two things:
no benefit from journaled fs
and much lower performance
Depends on what Windows installer. Fedora's LiveUSB-creator for MS Windows will install Live Fedora Linux on a USB-stick without touching the MS Windows system. Then after booting with LiveUSB you are already in Linux and can install a real Linux-partition straight or if needed after shrinking the Windows partition.

GrimyHR 2012-05-12 12:05
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimon (Post 1205634)
Depends on what Windows installer. Fedora's LiveUSB-creator for MS Windows will install Live Fedora Linux on a USB-stick without touching the MS Windows system. Then after booting with LiveUSB you are already in Linux and can install a real Linux-partition straight or if needed after shrinking the Windows partition.
instaler we are discussing is wubi, and that to which you are refering is NOT a windows instaler, it is a live usb creator, huge difference

don_falcone 2012-05-12 13:21
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneven (Post 1205535)
I have recommended Mint myself many times, and was one of its early fans. I wonder why it borrowed so heavily from Ubuntu if Ubuntu is such horse manure. In fact, such intolerant rhetoric on your part says a lot more about you than about Ubuntu.
(I will omit going personal because this says alot more about you then)

- because its too easy to sit on the Ubuntu bandwagon / their huge package and services infrastructure instead of using a different base?

I wouldnt recommend Ubuntu for all the things they've done (Unity, the title bar buttons issue, at my time of usage one of the worst KDE integrations, but really for not listening to their base) but especially for their serious QA issues - how many, even LTS, releases were butchered because some packages or components just were rushed to be upgraded/switched to fit in their release cycle?); I was burned particularly of the failed PulseAudio integration (which gave PA itself a very bad light but most of the issues were Ubuntu only) and broken upgrade procedures which left the system unbootable. Some very good points were highlighted here and i endorse this article fully.

"Everyone is using it so it must be good" was never a sign for quality. And i expect _you_ to know that.

daperl 2012-05-12 13:24
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
If you have the disk space, the memory and a good multi core machine, trying out different distros can be fun. So, forget the live CD route and go virtual; this is 2012 where rebooting is frowned upon.

Click here for more details:

https://www.virtualbox.org/

anonymous 2012-05-12 13:38
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimyHR (Post 1205588)
DO NOT USE WINDOWS INSTALLER! and i can not emphasize this enough, this will install linux on the same partition as windows in a virtual partition which will result in two things:
no benefit from journaled fs
and much lower performance
The topic is Linux for the beginner. Not Linux for the server / performance geek / hacker. Performance and filesystem differences are not even on this guy's radar.

edit: oops. just noticed it's a workstation with RAID. valid point

If you want to introduce someone to using Linux, the easiest and safest way is still the ubuntu windows installer.

I'm actually quite surprised you wouldn't bring up "loadfont not found". If you upgrade the distro you get your first Linux troubleshooting experience and need to edit a config file from a livecd to get into Ubuntu again.

Other than that the Installer is quite nice.

DDH87 2012-05-12 13:52
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
I have had a lot of Linux/windows machines in the past. The best way to install Linux, and for beginners I would say OpenSUSE, is to boot a install disk.

The OpenSUSE installer will tell you what to do and tells you what the best way is to partition the drives. And best of all. It will shrink any windows drive if needed but will try to avoid this.

Now I have been running a OpenSUSE installation just by itself. And you can just update to the new version. No need for a new install.

About the yast tools. There the best. have used most of the others around and start missing YaST.

BTW, SuSE is the only one that has the nVidia drivers packaged by nVidia themselves. So Just install the drive from Yast after the installation (cant be done at a new install due to licenses) and it will activate it by it self now extra steps needed.

GrimyHR 2012-05-12 14:31
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous (Post 1205677)
The topic is Linux for the beginner. Not Linux for the server / performance geek / hacker. Performance and filesystem differences are not even on this guy's radar.

edit: oops. just noticed it's a workstation with RAID. valid point

If you want to introduce someone to using Linux, the easiest and safest way is still the ubuntu windows installer.

I'm actually quite surprised you wouldn't bring up "loadfont not found". If you upgrade the distro you get your first Linux troubleshooting experience and need to edit a config file from a livecd to get into Ubuntu again.

Other than that the Installer is quite nice.
wubi has no advantages to running it from a live usb with persistance or simply in a virtual enviroment, in fact it has many disadvantages and is not easyest and safest way by a long shot
wubi sucks...balls...

ladoga 2012-05-12 14:53
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimyHR (Post 1205472)
GENTOO!!!
just kidding, for someone just getting into linux from windows mint is probably the safest route
No, it's not a joke. It depends on noob. If he/she has enough motivation and wants to learn, rather than just get another Windows, then some distro that doesn't hide the workings of Linux is the best way to go. People tend to forget that steeper learning curve also means faster learning.

I can speak from experience since I started my Linux use by Gentoo stage 1 install. Sure I was completely lost and it took me several days to get the damn thing compiled. (it was only possible thanks to Gentoo's great documentation) But in those two days I learned much more about Linux than during a year of Ubuntu use. Distros that put much effort on automation and ease of use often put their focus only on the surface and tend to be uglier and more complex under the hood. It means that when something goes wrong it will be harder to fix.

Given that Maemo/MeeGo harmattan is debian based I would suggest debian. It's truly a community distro with lots of skilled developers and great flexibility.

It's always best to try out several different distros when you are new to linux and give each one some time. Learn their quirks and soon you'll form your own opinion that will make the decision easy.

Whenever you hit a wall remember that google is your friend (atleast in this rare case), use it and it's very likely that someone has already faced the same problem and solved it for you.

If you persist through the initial troubles you'll notice that Linux offers you new possibilities you couldn't even dream of.

GrimyHR 2012-05-12 15:08
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladoga (Post 1205707)
No, it's not a joke. It depends on noob. If he/she has enough motivation and wants to learn, rather than just get another Windows, then some distro that doesn't hide the workings of Linux is the best way to go. People tend to forget that steeper learning curve also means faster learning.

I can speak from experience since I started my Linux use by Gentoo stage 1 install. Sure I was completely lost and it took me several days to get the damn thing compiled. (it was only possible thanks to Gentoo's great documentation) But in those two days I learned much more about Linux than during a year of Ubuntu use. Distros that put much effort on automation and ease of use often put their focus only on the surface and tend to be uglier and more complex under the hood. It means that when something goes wrong it will be harder to fix.

Given that Maemo/MeeGo harmattan is debian based I would suggest debian. It's truly a community distro with lots of skilled developers and great flexibility.

It's always best to try out several different distros when you are new to linux and give each one some time. Learn their quirks and soon you'll form your own opinion that will make the decision easy.

Whenever you hit a wall remember that google is your friend (atleast in this rare case), use it and it's very likely that someone has already faced the same problem and solved it for you.

If you persist through the initial troubles you'll notice that Linux offers you new possibilities you couldn't even dream of.
look i love gentoo and all, but its not for a beginner, beginning from relatively dificult instalation process and then compiling every package it is more likely to to turn some one away from linux than to draw them in, better to start small and then to play with the big guns

anthonie 2012-05-12 15:10
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
@ladoga

Well put. Also I agree strongly with the observation about the increased obfuscation under the hood of the more "user friendly" distros. Your stage 1 story created a smile of recognition. I smiled less back then, though... Memories sweeten the experience.

@OP

Simply put;
1. For the curious and eager beginner, I'd say Gentoo, Arch or LFS,

Pros: Steep learning curve, maximum reward in terms of confidence.
Cons: Time. Because there's always too little.

2. For the less curious, try Ubuntu, Debian or Mint.

Pros: Setup in 7 or 8 simple questions. Lots of users worldwide so lots and lots of (community) help online.
Cons. Hardly teaches you anything. Quick learning curve because the technical difficulty level is, well, limited. As are the possibilities.

ladoga 2012-05-12 15:18
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sifo (Post 1205552)
i never wanted to change winblows but after reading you guys cheering over here i like the idea about installing a linux distro but if im thinking about installing a rude distro :D (for h*ck*ng) which one it should be ? backtrack ?

./sifo
It doesn't really matter. Backtrack is just a compilation of mainly cracker tools on top of Ubuntu. You can install those same tools on any distro you wish.

If you mean hacking in it's traditional context, then give a try to
LFS, Gentoo, Debian and/or Arch Linux.

dr_frost_dk 2012-05-12 15:18
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Should have added a poll so we could all vote to help you. :)

Im using ubuntu 12.04 Gnome shell Remix, really awesome, no unity only gnome 3, which after i started using it i will say it is VERY fast to use actually, been using gnome 2 until now (setup like win95).

But again for a beginner linux i can only recommend Zorin OS, here you will have the SMALLEST transistion from windows.
http://zorin-os.com/

Else Ubuntu 12.04 Gnome shell Remix, unity is very smart but it is not for everybody, it has literally divided ubuntu users
http://ubuntu-gs-remix.sourceforge.net/p/home/

PS. Zorin is still the most popular linux dist, and that is down to the panel/desktop switcher system where you can set it up to look like win95, winXP, win7, gnome2, Mac OS and one more i can't remember.

shinogami 2012-05-12 16:00
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_frost_dk (Post 1205720)
PS. Zorin is still the most popular linux dist
[Citation needed]
I could bet all my money on Ubuntu being the most popular Linux distribution (largest install base) by a very large margin. I suspect Red Hat comes in 2nd and Debian is probably pretty high up there too..

dr_frost_dk 2012-05-12 16:29
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinogami (Post 1205737)
[Citation needed]
I could bet all my money on Ubuntu being the most popular Linux distribution (largest install base) by a very large margin. I suspect Red Hat comes in 2nd and Debian is probably pretty high up there too..
https://www.linux.com/directory/Distributions/desktop

Most popular based on ratings, you can not go by most install/downloads then let's just call it, windows 7 is the best thing you can get..............

zimon 2012-05-12 16:43
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
I use daily both Fedora and Ubuntu.
For security reasons and for Linux defragmentation-agenda-reasons, I recommend Fedora and also use it in my home computer.

Ubuntu and Debian should transfer to rpm package format and overall should more closely follow LSB-standards and -recommendations. There is well argumented technical and political reasons why.

It would be beneficial for the whole Linux ecosystem to have more compatibility between distros, at least on the lower level. Microsoft is happy Linux ecosystem is so scattered and fragmented.

geneven 2012-05-12 17:31
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
I suspect that most newbies try a series of distros till they find their favorite. I hung out at DistroWatch for a long time and tested whatever seemed interesting

dr_frost_dk 2012-05-12 18:14
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneven (Post 1205775)
I suspect that most newbies try a series of distros till they find their favorite. I hung out at DistroWatch for a long time and tested whatever seemed interesting
hehe as did i, it was fun to see/try the various dist's at the time, first i used zorin for a long time, after that i used ubuntu and still do, i was prepaired to abandon ubuntu after the MASSIVE ignorence that was the 11' series, but now 12.04 is working good and im slowly moving my computers from 10.10 to 12.04.

GrimyHR 2012-05-13 10:45
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimon (Post 1205750)
I use daily both Fedora and Ubuntu.
For security reasons and for Linux defragmentation-agenda-reasons, I recommend Fedora and also use it in my home computer.

Ubuntu and Debian should transfer to rpm package format and overall should more closely follow LSB-standards and -recommendations. There is well argumented technical and political reasons why.

It would be beneficial for the whole Linux ecosystem to have more compatibility between distros, at least on the lower level. Microsoft is happy Linux ecosystem is so scattered and fragmented.
why? i prefer debs as they are a standard archive(rpm's warent last time i checked) and im used to it

plus some benefits like asking questions and showing installed size and couple of more reasons

zimon 2012-05-13 13:31
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimyHR (Post 1205997)
why?
because rpm is technically superior over deb.
There is many features missing in deb, which are in rpm and used by default. (for example deb's way of embedded signatures is not really used anywhere)

rpm has differential packages (.drpm) which leads to savings in data transfers both for end users and operators, and it saves time when updating and upgrading.

For example, I did a "yum -y update" to my Fedora 16 machine today:
Code:
....
Upgrade  8 Packages
....
Total download size: 5.7 M
Downloading Packages:
Setting up and reading Presto delta metadata
updates/prestodelta                                      | 1.1 MB    00:00
Processing delta metadata
Download delta size: 553 k
....
Finishing rebuild of rpms, from deltarpms
<locally rebuilding deltarpms>                          | 3.5 MB    00:03
Presto reduced the update size by 85% (from 3.5 M to 553 k).
....
Also rpm has transactions support, so if device looses battery power between installing packages, the device can itself backroll after reboot. (in fact, if battery power is lost in middle of transaction, nothing needs to be backrolled, only transaction continued and finished or transaction cancelled)

Additionally, rpm-systems has well built and tested support for SELinux. SElinux is quite difficult to build afterwards to the system, if software packages doesn't support it already.

And rpm packages have GPG-signatures embedded, so we won't have security vulnerabilities like in talk.maemo.org we see often: there is a MITM attack possible every time someone does wget+dpks_-i.

michaaa62 2012-05-13 13:51
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
This discussion is fruitless and as old as shipping pre-compiled binaries in any form! We do not need to reproduce it here again and again.

zimon 2012-05-13 14:00
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaaa62 (Post 1206047)
This discussion is fruitless and as old as shipping pre-compiled binaries in any form! We do not need to reproduce it here again and again.
Many deb-users don't just know what they are lagging. They believe the FUD the oldtimers tell them on forums.

And more importantly, that MITM-security-vulnerability seems to be totally ignored time and time again in all deb-based systems. Many Linux fans takes security seriously, except when it comes to deb, they just overlook it totally and refuse to see the huge flaw in the practical security policy of deb-systems.

There is good technical reasons deb-systems to transfer to a rpm-system. But it would be foolish rpm-systems to change to inferior deb-system. Most everyone still agree, using only one common distribution software packaging format would benefit the whole Linux ecosystem.

dumpystig 2012-05-13 14:03
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
It's not exactly fruitless, but it's not really helped me progress much either.

Too many replies are obviously not targeted at a beginner, as the thread title requested...

zimon 2012-05-13 14:16
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dumpystig (Post 1206052)
It's not exactly fruitless, but it's not really helped me progress much either.

Too many replies are obviously not targeted at a beginner, as the thread title requested...
Well, have you started to try different systems? It is the best way to get a hang of it. Trying with Live-USB-stick or with Live-CD:s is a good way to try them out. And then there is active and good user help forums at least with the most used distributions; Ubuntu and Fedora, if you need help using the Live-Linux system or installing additional features and such.

dumpystig 2012-05-13 14:25
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
I've tried to install LiLi/Ubuntu but am having some problems with my 8GB USB drive and also my CPU's apparently not supporting PAE (although I'm almost certain they do).

Not had much time to sort this yet, got my son for the weekend so we been very busy with other stuff, but I'll be back on it tonight.

GrimyHR 2012-05-13 15:36
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimon (Post 1206041)
because rpm is technically superior over deb.
bla...bla...rpm has some advantages over deb as well as deb has some advantages over rpm...your point is mute as one is not overall better then the other and claiming it is would be simply a bulls.h.i.t
this comes purely to personal choice and needs

zimon 2012-05-13 15:36
Re: Can you recommend a Linux version for beginner
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dumpystig (Post 1206064)
I've tried to install LiLi/Ubuntu but am having some problems with my 8GB USB drive and also my CPU's apparently not supporting PAE (although I'm almost certain they do).
What kind of problems with 8 GB USB? With LiLi?

And are you trying (wanting) to use 32 bit OS in a 64 bit system with more than 4 GB RAM memory? If, I would recommend to try 64-bit OS instead, also in LiveUSB-system.


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