Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

it must be an obeserver's point of view as why would he state hopeful etc.? and don't forget a Nokia employee on this thread has already said its all destroyed so there is 0.0001% of anything happening on this front.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

It's not over until the fat lady sings!

(by fat lady i mean Elop)

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

She has sung many a times so far. Nokia as we knew, is long gone.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Why are you so sad? Nokia will the biggest player again with both windows and other ****(talking winds and stuff) that your heads can't comprehend.

Go back and play with the mighty n900. It's the best **** that the shitheads ever created.

One more thing. Next time I will return to this thread...It won't be pretty! Wake up zombies. You already got what you looking for in the hands right in front of you.That's right, I'm pointing at YOOUOuOu!

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Sorry to hear that.

How many individuals are supposed to have full source code of maemo or meego or meltemi?

Legally speaking if source codes of any of the os (the part that's already not open) were leaking by employee X then when what is the worst lawsuite result for employee X?

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

So it appears to me only the phone project is confirmed to be killed.

What about the tablet one, anyone has insight on this???

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

I am not entirely familiar with system architecture, but I have been wondering... why didn't Nokia use Android core then port Qt and build the whole UI on top of it?

Imaging a Android core + Harmattan UI... would this be a possible direction for community to work on?

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Android core is just the linux kernel

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Nokia gave me a Lumia 800 for free. My work colleagues asked me about the new phone thinking it was good. They asked for my honest opinion and I just think the phone is a pile of crap. I keep going back to my N9.

So yea, quite literally, I think that most people will never look at WP even if it is free.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Meego Architecture

Android Architecture

What about the libraries? Aren't they part of the core?

(Sorry for being off-topic)

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

I think your colleagues should try out a windows phone and get there own opinion. Why not give it to them since you dont like it iven if its free, And I hope people here do that before the decide that windows sucks. different people have different use cases. Form you on opinion is what the right way

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Instead if investing money in developing meltimi project , if nokia would have used the same money to develop meego it would have been a hit and would have outsold lumia , iphone , s3 , note ,etc. Nokia = Dumb (after Elop entered nokia) , Before Elop Nokia = Inovations

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Nokia was dumb much before Elop took the wheel. After Elop they are not just dumb, but plainly suicidal.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Talking about only a handful have more or less up to date source in full format. I can guarantee you that this was really not expected to happen. I am also very sure that if we would have had at least a small glimpse of what was going to happen and the servers open, then everyone would have dumped whatever was available at that given moment.

But to answer the last question, it's not technically doable for mr XY to leak personally the code announcing it on a forum, for example. I see more a leak elsewhere on torrent e.g.
Lawsuits are unwanted as you can imagine the value of the code itself.

Anyways, I agree that it would be great to make use of all that code that has been developed in the last 3-4 years in Finland.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

define "core". if you think of something like "all of Android plus qt plus harmattan ui", you'd still be trapped in android's licensing issues and the google-centric application ecosystem. Wouldn't make any sense, because if you don't mind these two you're better off with plain vanilla Android anyway.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

People always need to form an opinion by themselves.

My colleagues did try out the phone, a few of them were about to renew their contracts. My phone was lent out to them but 3 of them decided that they did not like Windows Phone. They went the android route, One X, SGS2, SGS3. The consensus among them was that the tile system was essentially a poor man's widgets. No multitasking was also a killer (skype). All of them loved the speed of WP7.5's UI interaction.

There was another person that thought wtf, why do you have 2 phones which look exactly the same. He thought the swipe interface was awesome and actually ended up buying an N9 against my recommendation because I told him the ecosystem is dying/going to die soon.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

You mean 'fat head'

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

and she sang 'ecosystem' 'ecosystem' 'ecosystem' 'ecosystem'!!!

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Can't say that I didn't see this coming. I just wonder what his (Elop) end game is...

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

It is very clear that many people on here just do not understand enough and consistently blame Elop for the downfall of Nokia and the amount of threads and posts to this effect is huge !!!!.

The facts are and have been very clear for a long time now but many just don't read outside of this somewhat ill-informed community, for those who are blaming him for nokia's downfall need to go read the news and try at least to digest some of it.

Elop is there for one reason only and that is the winding down of Nokia and it is so clear that by the September 21, 2010 Nokia was already finished (parden the pun) as a company and Elop has never had anything to do with any failures within Nokia, in fact he has done his job so good he will go down in history and his methods of winding down such a prominent company that was will be used for years !.

Move on from Nokia and try something else instead of this ridiculous mad charade of trying to convince the world that Meamo Meego meltemi will carry on because it won't !! its a simple as that.

Time to get real on here !!!.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Gerby you just cannot be serious .... can you?, you don't know what the end of his "game" is?.

NOT a game it is all deadly serious and the end is as clear as daylight.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Elop's just a stooge. What about the board's, as they obviously still support him. In fact, what about the shareholders', who didn't even try to dump the lot of them at the AGM last month?

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

The funny thing is that Microsoft is the next company to go down :)

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Ha that was a damm good remark and sadly to say as much as i would love that to happen it will never be, not at least for a very long time and certainly not in our lifetimes !.

Like to agree with you Dave but........

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Why would they want to get rid of Elop? "dump the lot of them" who are you referring too?.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Sack the board,
sack the board,
sack the board.

Sack the board,
sack the board,
sack the boooaaaaard.

Sack the board,
sack the board,
sack the board.

Sack the board,
sack - the - board.

Repeat ad infinitum.

Where are the shareholders, when all their money is going down the drain? I'd be livid if I'd invested my money in these jokers.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

No, think about it. Bringing Nokia down doesn't help their cause, it hurts them. If they wanted a hardware manufacturer, they could have bought other companies that are/were in trouble. If it's for patents, well those carry a price regardless of the company's status.

And bringing Nokia down doesn't help WP7 either. It's already relegated to a distant 4th place (if that, I'm being generous) with less than 5% of the market. So think about it... bringing Nokia down has to have an end game beyond what we've been thinking.

Sure, "Elop's a trojan" and "Elop's a stooge" is the rhetoric, but there's something at play here bigger than we're currently looking at. That's my point.

Bringing down a company is easy - ask Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. But when it hurts your branding, in this case WP7 which leads to WP8, then letting Nokia hurt like this instead of propping them up is a real stupid plan.

And that's exactly where I'm having a problem. The board isn't doing anything to stop this circling of the drain. I cannot remember a company that's allowed this to happen this badly in recent years.

This is an implosion at the board of directors level. The CEO is just a tool to make that happen faster.

If Windows 8, Windows 8 RT and Windows Mobile 8 all fail, you're right.

Scarily enough, with their archaic licensing scheme - $85 USD per Windows 8 RT license - I feel like they're setting themselves up for failure. Steve Ballmer is a much worse CEO than Stephen Elop. The writing for his failure(s) have been on the wall for ages.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

http://www.nokia.com/global/about-no...eet-the-board/

Look at the board, do those 50+ year old grandmas and grandpas look like meego fanboys to you? :D

Elop probably told them his ecosystem story, and they thought: "Isn't that a nice lad? He's so forthcoming. And his story about fishing in intact nature was very nice, you know the thing he told us about ecosystems..."

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

the funny thing is the board has a number of Finnish people...why on earth are they not intervening even though Nokia has championed open source since a long time confuses me...

how they can allow a company with values and European production allow their best staff to be kicked out, production facilities be shut is surprising!

even if you're not a Nokia fan it hurts to see those people being laid off especially knowing a large number were working on open source projects...Android and iOS both scare me even though i've been using them for quite somewhile (privacy issues etc.) so the loss of this last hope is heart-wrenching.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

OK then look at the big picture and then try to evaluate a few things here.....

You are getting there when you talk about patents because Microsoft will have to have full permission without falling foul of them, now you should be able to see a pawn in there game and a very important one ! Patents !!.

AGM's must inform all shareholders that are registered with the company of the meeting so they would obviously be there to vote.

Elop was appointed by vote at an agm but what is not told are the reasons for his approval as CEO, now is where you should be able to suss this out because we all know Nokia was coming to an abrupt end BEFORE the election of Elop.... right?.

All you got to work out now is what the shareholders would want when they know the company is going down for whatever reasons.

Now you see the reasons why Elop was appointed and that is to protect investments and the way forward to save a company doomed to go bankrupt.

Look into Elop's work history and you will see just why he is probably the best man for the job and of course his involvement in Microsoft who are the key player here.

Nokia will survive but only as a tool for Microsoft and that is where we all have to wait because if WP fails then the whole game is over and Nokia will remain part of Microsoft with no further development on anything Nokia achieved prior to the takeover and that means Maemo and everything else, will just die a death unless it is sold on.

Everything to do with Nokia means money and that is where Microsoft and Elop come into the picture, to satisfy all the shareholders.

People ain't stupid and certainly not shareholders so they will obviously know what is going on from the start of Elop and the reasons for his approval as CEO..

End of this is simple to see... Nokia is not coming down as it serves a perfect match for the progression of WP and that's what it is all about.

If i were a shareholder there is no way i would want anything to do with Maemo Meego Meltimi or anything else that failed for what ever reasons.

Is clear now or not?.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

As for Qt, doesn't nokia need it for S40?

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

What Elop is doing is what the shareholders want him to do and that is scaling down a company to fit in with whoever takes them over and as we all know in this case it is Microsoft.

Nokia was geared for everything Microsoft does not need so it is only obvious that staff have to go because you do not need such a vast amount of staff to produce WP hardware.

Nokia is being trimmed down to suit the investment of Microsoft and it is all part of making sure Nokia does not go into the hands of receivers.

The whole thing has taken probably the best part of 2 years to come together and i would think a year of that was prior to Elop's appointment as CEO.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

^

You're assuming that microsoft and shareholders are in some kind of agreement that MS will actually pay much more per share than market value (I mean more than nokia could have been worth with another strategy).

You think such an agreement exists, and which shareholders are actually involved? Wouldn't that be illegal?

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Holy ****, I was actually pleasantly surprised. I thought Risto Siilasmaa is the only one who might have some technical knowledge to understand the stupidity of this Windows only strategy.

But there's also Mårten Mickos since may 2012. This is the CEO of MySQL. He should know the idiocy of this plan.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

It is not about what Microsoft will pay entirely it is about a companies existence.

Nokia shares were going down long time ago and as no other major manufacturer were prepared to offer what she shareholders wanted it was obviously either a sell off or a takeover and it certainly looks like Microsoft were able to satisfy shareholders by looking at what is going on now don't it otherwise none of this would be happening.

All shareholders are involved because it would be the only way a sell off or a takeover can happen but it don't mean that all were in agreement or even if they were all present at the vote and proxy took place to get the end result but whatever has been agreed is all legal for sure because no one would want to fall foul of something like this would they.

We do not know or ever likely to know the financial details behind this but for sure it is all above board.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

You realize share prices are much lower than before the strategy change?

You assume that shareholders saw MS as the only long term savior for nokia, I find that hard to believe honestly.

Of course the situation now is totally different, so I wouldn't be surprised if nokia/MS would announce a "merger" monday. If that happens I'm sure that shareholders were actually not aware that this was the plan all along.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Calling Nokia "already finished in 2010" would be a big stretch. Nokia recognized it had a big problem executing the launch of new products because of the inability to deliver software in time.
As a result Nokia would slowly lose more and more market-share because of outdated products.
Under Elop, Nokia concluded it could not fix the software development problems (in any timely fashion), so stopped most in-house software development and placed the bet that Microsoft could deliver a competitive product.
For Nokia, I hope this bet pays off. In the past Microsoft has had a lot of hits and misses when it comes to delivering new versions in time.

Currently we are very much in the transition phase. On the high-end Nokia is not doing well with three different "top of the line" products. The N9 has a superb convergence of hardware and software design, but is abandoned and no big ecosystem was ever created. The 808 pureview has very promising camera tech, but the rest of the hardware is the sametech from the N8 put on steroids. The Lumia 900 appears clunky, missing the charm of the N9 and is only interesting if you can get LTE coverage (So effectively very US orientated device)

That said, I think the low-end smartphone Lumia 610 is very promising. I think the hardware looks great and the software interface is very smooth. In my opinion it blows away any competitor in the same price-range in looks and smoothness.

So will the switch to Microsoft work out for Nokia?
We will know more when Nokia delivers its first real high-end Windows Phone device. If it is released within a couple of months of the next iPhone and is competitive in both hardware and software, than Nokia will have a real fighting chance. If not it is probably in an even worse situation than it would have been if it continued on the MeeGo/Symbian/Meltemi course.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

I think many on here need to understand the difference and roles of "directors" and "shareholders/owners".

Directors would not be able to make a merger with Microsoft without the approval of shareholders for obvious reasons.

In the past Nokia have made some really bad decisions so who are we to be in the minds of the owners of Nokia ? and as you said from your point of view you find it hard to believe but look what Nokia have done in the past, some pretty hazardous decisions have been made to get them into the mess they got in to prior to all this so my guess is there was a majority that like this Microsoft merger or takeover because of past history of one of the richest companies that exist so i don't think it is a bad idea from a logistical business sense when you look at the history of Microsoft.

The survival of Nokia is well under way and as for shares, what has happened is normal considering Nokia were going down big time so we just have to wait and see what comes of all this because if successful you will for sure see shares jumping in value.

I can assure you 100% ALL shareholders were and are very much aware of what is going on with Microsoft because it would not only be illegal but crazy for any of this to be happening.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

The date i gave was the date Elop was actually appointed CEO and for the reasons that happened was spelling out the end of Nokia as they used to be because everyone inside Nokia knew it was coming to an abrupt end if something as drastic as this did not happen.

Will it work out? your guess is as good as mine but i don't see Microsoft having anything to do with Maemo Meego or anything else Nokia had even in the pipeline because the goals are clearly set on WP and nothing else because Microsoft would not want any more competition than they can afford to happen.

If you remember the very first shock we got from Elop was the N9 news so i think we can forget anything but WP to be in the production line from here on.

Re: Sad news; Nokia apparently killed Meltemi
 

Actually the "burning platform" memo articulated the problems very well, but the fear wasn't "an abrupt end", it was the fear of a slow death (steadily decreasing market share because of slow response to market changes).
Also Nokia will continue to use Nokia OS (S40) on low-end phones in current production lines.

At the time Nokia could not see Windows phone in the real low-end market anytime soon, so trying to make low-end devices more competitive using a different OS based on linux (Meltemi), would seem a good strategy to investigate.
What changed? That isn't clear. Maybe there were delays in the development again, or the hardware requirements (and costs) increased or updates to S40 produced a similar user experience, without the costs of maintaining a whole new OS. In the past Nokia frequently made different groups inside the company compete against each other, maybe the S40 touch group won?
We don't know.
Or maybe microsoft recognised it currently just needs lots and lots of WP users and lowered license fees for low-end devices (they did the same for netbooks), making the development of an in-house low-end OS economically infeasible.