Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

There's a lot of genuine frustration in the thread, but let's try not to put our frustrations with Nokia onto qgil. He's always been enthusiastic about maemo.org and I really think he has our best interests as a community at heart. We're in a tough situation but also things are tough for a lot of Nokians too - I suspect qgil feels stuck between a rock and a hard place sometimes and I'm sure he'd love to be clearer and concise with every question he's asked, but we can rely on him (and Kate) to do their best at the Nokia side. Honestly, if we didn't have one already, we'd all be crying out for a qgil right now so let's try to give him some slack :)

We've known for a while now that we'd need to think about where the community goes next. A large part of the last election, imo, was to elect a councii who would make preparation to take us forward into the new frontier. So I guess this is how they'll earn their stripes. Things are really muddled now due to the big announcements from Nokia at the end of last week, so nobody will have all the answers today. But as the situation gets clearer I expect the council will keep us in the loop with what is going on.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

I always knew he was stuck in the middle of a very awkward situation and as you have said right now there is a lot of mixed feelings on here but overall i actually admire a lot of the work he has done.

I personally hope that one day he will be able to be "himself" and tell it the way it actually is, when someone has a go it is purely out of frustration nothing else, am sure you of all people know what i am talking about Kojacker.

Now for sure this is about the community not Nokia.

PS i am so happy to see woody on council that might suprise you considering some of the heated debates we have had.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

I am not taking any opinion on past statements. My comment was only about the recent ones about maemo.org's future, which I interpreted you were talking about also. And IMO they were very clear comments.

I am a relatively new member, but as long as I've been here, I've found Qgil's comments straight-forward and to the point.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

Sorry i don't understand what your trying to say regarding my comments on Maemo.org's future?.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

I was trying to say, that your comments about Qgil are unfair. He stated very straight-forward what he knows about maemo.org's future.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

I've been respectful and I've been following the forum's rules ever since I joined... So excuse me for breaking a rule here.. But I gotta say this.

And I am willing to donate money to whoever wants to take over.. Heck, I can also provide hosting if needed to.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

she is trolling you, hoping to start a fight as of old & poisoning this thread.
watch out, please.

EDIT: he => she

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

guys, i am sure many of tmo community are part of maemo-freak / symbian-freak community and i believe that smartphone-freak can help up...though
so, nokia is closing all relations to opensource and this was last one...:(

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

It is good to see some of the old members on this thread and it proves we do stick together !.

I even see stskeeps on the viewers and i am happy to see him still coming on Maemo.org, would be nice for Carsten to say a few words.

I have a sickly feeling in my guts tonight and i think i am not on my own so lets hope all the old members come on here and say something for the community as it is still without doubt the best community on the net and probably always will be, my best regards to Reggie as i think he is ready to pass this on.

Long live Maemo.org !!!!.

Hey Geneven thanks and i mean that ok !.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

Dude shooting in the foot is an understatement, Nokia is shooting themselves in the face repatedly all those who say you can't shoot yourself more than twice in the head should really look at Nokia as a case study.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

I guess donations and advertising must do the trick. What numbers are we talking about here?

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

I would start with OpenTablets.org...

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

Read the article a bit more carefully. ;)

In any event (and this is general, not aimed at jd4200) let's keep this civil, thanks.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

That's absolute rubbish. Not one word of it is true. You owe Quim one hell of an apology.

Why are you here again?

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

if you had read this very thread a little more carefully, you would have noticed that i pointed out that Quim being a NOKIA employee shouldn't be mistaken as him being a NOKIA spokesperson.
not being aware of this can of course give the feeling Quim is dangling information at us and rise frustration, no?

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

I don't see that reading the thread more carefully would render Texrat's comment untrue or inapt.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

I read very carefully. I'm responding to abill_uk, not you, and he's out of line, period.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

Good question.
I would love to be able to keep using the forums, wiki, repositories and being able to download and use firmware images and the Scratchbox and Qt SDK for all of my tablets and Maemo/MeeGo phones.
A project like Linux mint also has similar things (forum, howto guides, repositories etc.) and is funded with donations and advertisement. Would that be possible for maemo.org also?
I would be willing to donate.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

This is a replay of a lengthy discussion; I am sure the current council are up on the details and will be ready with possible plans. It will be nice to see a proposal that is relatively complete; I am not interested in pie in the sky ideas that people like me might come up with, but something actually doable.I'm sure donations and ads will both be part of the package.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

Hey Texy i resent that remark and i might remind you this community praises itself for freedom of speech AND you need to read all my posts not just that one OK.

Qgil cannot say it the way he would like too because he is directed by Nokia and the very reason i said a REAL Nokia spokesperson meaning someone who could tell it the way it is for everyone to read.
Now if you want to debate this then ok am with you so fire away you shot the first round and i will follow in any event.

And in answer to your last comment......i am as much entitled to be on here as you ok.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

And that's what is wrong with his statements, they go round in circles and leave a lot of guessing which incidentally has prompted this thread !.

I have every right to express my opinion but Texrat obviously feels a lot of admiration for Qgil that i don't, ok fair enough.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

The question why is he here should be asked of Reggie or Admins, not Abill_uk. I already complained about one of his posts, with zero response. He always gets to start fresh, as if he has no history, with a blank slate and a perfect past.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

didn't you miss something?

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

Ok i will explain for the benefit of Texrat why i do not always agree with Qgill, if that is at all possible and people actually understand where i am coming from.

I do not like PR talk generally because it is usually always hyped for the company to give a good impression and i feel strongly in this case that Qgil gave many false promises in his words that never came or happened hence why Maemo now is a dead project as far as Nokia is concerned, all my life i have always been straight to the point and non pretentious especially when it involves money and i feel Nokia fell foul of many things which is obviously why they are in the situation they are in now.

Maemo is the reason for this community and i have been around here long enough and argued too i might add for the cause of the community where Nokia are concerned, it has sometimes got me into deep shitt but never the less i carry on in my beliefs and wants and needs which incidentally are no different in basic terms as anyone else's and that was always the progression of Maemo and then Meego when it all kicked off.

Many things have been said by Qgil that never came off and i have in the past said that he has had the rug pulled from under him.

Respect where it is due and i give him that for his position but not the actual happenings which were not his fault, he as a person is not in my critisism but that of the way Nokia have portrayed them selves using Qgil as there spokes person, sadly it all came down in a complete shambles and i still say the same as i always did that Maemo being a linux OS could very easily have gone much further than it did but i am not the one to say why it didn't, that is for Nokia to explain officially.

I owe no apology whatsoever to Qgil as my criticism is relating to Nokia and not directed at him personally as a person.

One request to deaf ears and that is the release in full of the Maemo source code/OS to this community... once again.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

All we can agree that there are more interesting things to discuss. It's ok. Let's move forward, or back to maemo.org.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Either you're with us or you're against us. This is what Nokia is saying at the moment. It's not fair, and many will disagree with the solution. Elop is no charismatic and visionary leader. He is a thug, he does what the board tells him, and the board has told him to restructure Nokia.

The old Nokia is gone. The new Nokia is emerging. It may be short lived, but that is beside the point. IMO they will pull it of, eventually.

As for this board, Texrat's solution is the only one which makes sense IMO.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

Freedom of Speech does not free you from consequences.
Freedom of Speech doesn't permit slander, libel or shouting fire in a crowded theater.
Tone it down abill_uk, go have a cup of green tea or something that will calm you down.

I'm sure you can say what you want to say without having to be a dick about it.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

They don't really care about us!

Michael Jackson says:

...

I used to dream
I used to glance beyond the cyber world
Now I don't know where we belong
Although I know Nokia abandoned us

Aaah, oooh
Aaah, oooh
Aaah, oooh
Aaah, oooh

Hey, what about Maemo
(What about us)
What about NIT
(What about it)
They gonna forget us
(What about us)
We'll be orphaned
(What about us)
What about TMO
(What about us)
They'll turned threads to dust
(What about us)
What about Wiki
(What about us)
They'll wipe the knowledges
(What about us)
What about Repository
(What about us)
We can't share our work
(What about us)
What about our roadmap
(What about us)
What about Hildon
(What about it)
What about Qt
(What about it)
What about Linux mobile devices
(What about it)
What about Open Source
(What about us)
What about their future
(ooo, ooo)
Do they give a damn

Aaah, oooh

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

MJ died already at the end of the 1980ies.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

The only person truly ENTITLED to be on this forum is Reggie. EVERYONE else is ALLOWED.

Anyway, cease with the personal attacks. And don't waste time arguing that. I'll show you what entitlement means when I start seriously moderating.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

There is place for some clarification. Decisions made last Thursday were Nokia highest management decisions. The final impacts and the schedule of these impacts are simply just not known yet.

Everything is depending decision chain from upper management to down ones responsible implementing them. So, we can't yet say that "maemo.org" will be financed by Nokia by n-months because we don't know it and our boss may not know it

You can expect that Nokia is no longer willing to invest as much money to community as it did before.

We ( I and Quim ) do our best to get as good deal to maemo-org and Qt community as possible but outcome is limited budget frame to be given us by out managers.

I hope that we can get solution where community could keep maintaining maemo.org in case Nokia is no longer willing to finance it. Issue that I don't yet know is that how much and how long Nokia will finance maemo.org.

I hope that everyone understands that we are on same side, community and all Nokia employees that have been working with Maemo/MeeGo/Qt.

I feel that situation is very sad, I have made about all of my career with OSS .
Kate

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

We don't need the full source code of all parts of Maemo/MeeGo to continue the support for the Nokia devices. But if Nokia discontinues the distribution of certain files, we can't officially support the devices anymore. We are not legally allowed to redistribute the firmware images for example, so only users that already downloaded the files could reinstall.
The same with the Scratchbox SDK. When setting up a new development environment you download binary packages from a nokia server that we are not allowed to redistribute.
This is probably also the case with the QtSDK. I don't think we are allowed to redistribute all the files related to Maemo/MeeGo (the emulator images and some simulator files probably).
If Nokia stops the distribution of these items, it would make the development of new applications harder.
But there are probably a lot more issues when trying to split Maemo.org from Nokia.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

For sure!
But the legal situation concerning the proprietary blobs is the most pressing one.
I'm pretty sure we can technically switch to another place within a week if the existence of this platform is at stake. But without having solved the legal issue of redistributing the blobs this platform and everything that depends on it is dead in terms of development.

So @qgil (or anybody who is close enough to Nokia to make a halfway educated guess):
Who will be in charge of hosting and distributing the blobs, and under which legal terms will this happen?

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

Maintaining developer.nokia.com site is different issue than maintaining independent community sites, so developer.nokia.com is obvious place for Nokia proprietary stuff.

If we end up solution where community maintains maemo.org we should also check what stuff need to be moved to developer.nokia.com . I am not lawyer but If I rightly remember, least some 3rd party stuff that are part of these images has some distribution limitations.

Kate

Kate

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

I recall reading somewhere on one of the previous threads regarding what to do about the future of maemo.org is that some subdomains were used by some internal Nokia processes. I guess that part at least won't be an issue in the future, so won't stand in the way of moving to maemoommunity.org or similar.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

Now at last we seem to be getting some straight talk which is all i ever wanted instead of round the houses.

Thanks Kate for some clarification you actually make more sense in a few words than your partner ever did in my opinion so i wish dearly you can keep up with this and give everyone your much needed guidance and help.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

*sigh*, If only one could say the same about you … hey, I got an idea: why don't *you* become productive for once, and set up a new site for this community?

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

If you're speaking about processes on devices itself, we could use resolv.conf or some other hack to redirect maemo.org to new server, so that's not a problem. But anyway, good to know that such issue may occur :)

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

OK i want to address this.

First of all Bernard please forgive me but i do not actually know who you are or your position.

I have never liked 3rd party for obvious reasons as it always makes huge problems legally and the very reason very little was or could be released from Nokia regarding Maemo.

Is there any way forward for some serious negotiations with Nokia regarding all the files you require to enable future support or is it that abysmal that it is all tied up with 3rd party crap?.

Is Nokia going to disappear into the world of Microsoft and leave you Maemo and everything else in the lurch? ir is there any way forward on this?.

Kate seems an angel right now because if ever a crucial time it is with us right now as we debate this, get in where it is needed with the help of Kate?.

All i will say is i have never agreed with the way Nokia have done business and certainly from the support factor as they were very bleak on this front, now i don't know if they used outside engineering or in house but i would suspect by what i have ever learned on here that it is outside and the reason everything seems so difficult right from the start.

I don't like vague and round the houses talk as i have always been a on the ball let us get to where we need to get too as fast as feasibly possible cutting out the wish wash etc.

Nokia have never ever been straight and to the point and i feel now if something is not done in the right direction that Maemo and all the files you require with permissions are not got then they will all die a sudden death and that would be so sad for this community.

For all we know Nokia could very well be gone in a short while so what happens to everything they have created and the much needed support factors?.

If this all boils down to legalities and there is no one prepared to get this mess sorted out then we will all end up with zero so my question is simple.... what can be done?.

Am not interested in what will happen to Maemo.org as that is in capable hands so no worries there but the support side and any kind of Maemo/Meego progression has always been my interest.

Re: It's official: maemo.org to be orphaned
 

tabletsdev is the only area which has material that is under licences (Nokia and third party), and it has the necessary checks in place to fullfill the requirements for distributing those pieces of software. So look there to see what needs to be moved.

Aside from that, the thing that most people here don't seem to grasp is the size of maemo.org. The forums are one small part of it all. The big parts are the old autobuilder, the new OBS, the repositories and the content delivery network. Those keep the show running for the devices out there.

If you recall the N900 has Extras as an official repository. That means that every single day, every single network connected N900 pings the repository (the content delivery network in the middle takes the load) and checks if something has changed.

While the forums are certainly helpful and entertaining, the real beef is in the software distribution tools that are part of maemo.org.